Astral Shards not to transfer to 64bit worlds!

[Blerkington]

You think 100,000 AS with no record of purchase is possible? 50 Ottos boxes with no record of purchase? 10,000 hours of 50% xp pot with no record of purchase?

Of course there is a threshold. And you test it by telling the person to explain how they managed to get an insane amount of whatever it is you discovered on their account.

You're really not thinking about this very hard, are you?

Let's say for the sake of argument I agree with you that 100k is an amount not obtainable through years of trade. What about 99,999 AS then? Or 99,998 AS? And so on?

Show me the number where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate and everyone above it has cheated. Obviously you can't, and that is what makes this a problem with some nuance which you apparently can't understand.

 

[Shear-buckler]

You're really not thinking about this very hard, are you?

Let's say for the sake of argument I agree with you that 100k is an amount not obtainable through years of trade. What about 99,999 AS then? Or 99,998 AS? And so on?

Show me the number where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate and everyone above it has cheated. Obviously you can't, and that is what makes this a problem with some nuance which you apparently can't understand.

Why does it have to catch all?

 

[Seldarin]

You're really not thinking about this very hard, are you?

Let's say for the sake of argument I agree with you that 100k is an amount not obtainable through years of trade. What about 99,999 AS then? Or 99,998 AS? And so on?

Show me the number where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate and everyone above it has cheated. Obviously you can't, and that is what makes this a problem with some nuance which you apparently can't understand.

As an example, over the years i have bought 100+ Ottos boxes, and for each one i have selected 65 shards as the reward if you like. Thats over 6500 shards that wouldnt show as being purchased. However, they are legitimate because it came as a result of the option I selected from the Ottos box that I bought with DDO points, that i had spent my own money on, and it was an offering from DDO. How would they propose to tell me that they are legitimate?

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Why are we even talking about dupers? SSG said they wouldn't move any AS to the new servers, period. Dupers or legit. If SSG is not willing to honor anyone's previous purchases then they don't deserve our money and deserve to go out of business.

Agree, and some of this talk about duping is very non-cerebral.

It's just not that hard to sell the most valuable things you earn in-game questing. I am not even sure what it is people are supposedly duping? The big money makers are cleansing cards, curse cards, dino bones, etc.

I've seen no indication the supply in the ASAH is the result of cheating. I've seen no indication that SSG is doing this because of dupers - it sounds more like they are focused on getting guild transfers ready. People need to think before they start throwing around non-sensical accusations.

 

[Blerkington]

As an example, over the years i have bought 100+ Ottos boxes, and for each one i have selected 65 shards as the reward if you like. Thats over 6500 shards that wouldnt show as being purchased. However, they are legitimate because it came as a result of the option I selected from the Ottos box that I bought with DDO points, that i had spent my own money on, and it was an offering from DDO. How would they propose to tell me that they are legitimate?

Exactly. If they are doing this as an antiduping measure it would be a very bad thing if people like you, who have spent serious money on the game, lost something they had paid for.

Why does it have to catch all?

Again, I'm not the one proposing this be done, I'm arguing against it. If you're going to take something away from someone you should be able to prove it isn't theirs, not just assume it because it seems unlikely.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Again, I'm not the one proposing this be done, I'm arguing against it. If you're going to take something away from someone you should be able to prove it isn't theirs, not just assume it because it seems unlikely.

Yes so you put the bar high. You don't have to place it "where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate ".

 

[Blerkington]

Yes so you put the bar high. You don't have to place it "where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate ".

So what is your number then? Whatever it is, you either run the risk of making it so high it's pointless or low enough that people who haven't cheated get picked up.

There are things SSG can do to reduce or eliminate duping and I'm all for them so long as they don't harm people who bought or traded for their AS stockpile.

 

[Dalsheel]

So what is your number then? Whatever it is, you either run the risk of making it so high it's pointless or low enough that people who haven't cheated get picked up.

There are things SSG can do to reduce or eliminate duping and I'm all for them so long as they don't harm people who bought or traded for their AS stockpile.

500,000 would be a good number. I can't possibly imagine anyone having purchased anywhere near this many shards.
Dupers have tens of millions of shards on their accounts.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Hello DDO forums!

Whether or not dupers may have many many shards is irrelevant to the fact that losing paid content for transfering servers is a terrible idea.

 

[Jasparius]

You're really not thinking about this very hard, are you?

Let's say for the sake of argument I agree with you that 100k is an amount not obtainable through years of trade. What about 99,999 AS then? Or 99,998 AS? And so on?

Show me the number where you can be 100% sure everyone below it is legitimate and everyone above it has cheated. Obviously you can't, and that is what makes this a problem with some nuance which you apparently can't understand.

You want me to tell you a number without knowing anything about the sales that Turbine / SSG had? Maybe Turbine / SSG would know the numbers but none of us do. They would absolutely be able to work this out with even just a little effort, or they are either completely incompetent or have a completely using tracking system, or both.

What we do know is they chose not to punish a huge number of dupers. We can speculate the reason but given they lost a huge amount of money from the duping, we can assume that most of the people duping were likely making them a huge amount of money as well, so they chose not to rock the boat.

Agree, and some of this talk about duping is very non-cerebral.

It's just not that hard to sell the most valuable things you earn in-game questing. I am not even sure what it is people are supposedly duping? The big money makers are cleansing cards, curse cards, dino bones, etc.

I've seen no indication the supply in the ASAH is the result of cheating. I've seen no indication that SSG is doing this because of dupers - it sounds more like they are focused on getting guild transfers ready. People need to think before they start throwing around non-sensical accusations.

Non-sensical? Duping was absolutely rampant. Maybe it was just Argo but it was literally everywhere. And it has happened a number of times over a few years. And maybe is still happening today.

In the weeks after one of the duping events I would inspect people I was grouped with and every time at least one or 2 would have tens of thousands of hours of 50% xp pots.

I only know of one person who was ever punished for duping. I dont know why he was singled out. He claims to not have done much of it (though maybe he was actually one of the worst offenders). The punishment was all the items duped were deleted, a bunch of random other things he had was deleted, and he was given a month holiday.

Thing is, they didnt even look at any of his other characters. Which had plenty of duped items on his return.

I cant think of a lazier reaction to a massive event like this in any other game Ive ever played.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

SSG, I was already down on you because of horrible rare loot system. Do this and you will lose players and money. You can't steal people's money and that is what your community manager is talking about. I've never been this angry with a game!

 

[Blerkington]

500,000 would be a good number. I can't possibly imagine anyone having purchased anywhere near this many shards.
Dupers have tens of millions of shards on their accounts.

I think you would be missing the vast majority of people who duped with a number that high.

I also wonder if it's even possible to have tens of millions on one account when the integer limit for other currency is only a little north of four million.

But if this seems like success to you, have at it. I suspect there's a significant chance it might not affect anyone at all but on the plus side the bar is set so high it's very unlikely anyone undeserving would be harmed.

 

[Blerkington]

You want me to tell you a number ...

You were the one who volunteered those numbers in the first place. And you're only now starting to see the problem with that?

 

[Rincewind]

Make an NPC that will buy a certain amount of an item 1x shard and then you can sell the same item to the same npc in other sever for the same ammount of shards

 

[Jasparius]

You were the one who volunteered those numbers in the first place. And you're only now starting to see the problem with that?

They were examples. There 100% for sure will be numbers where anything above that level it 100% is from duping. If Turbine / SSG bothered they would be able to find it. That they didnt speaks to the 2 things I said above: incompetence, or inability or both.

Or maybe the whales were by far the worst offenders and they didnt want to lose the people who pay to keep the lights on, no matter how much duping they did.

I dont see any problem with setting a benchmark for cheating. I simply dont know where that benchmark is because I dont have access to the numbers. If I did, I would be able to tell you.

Turbine / SSG had/have the numbers. They could have done more if they wanted. But they didnt. Which ends up hurting the people who didnt cheat.

 

[jacko]

Sorry but I don't give a flying fk about dupers or other exploiters here. It's a complete red herring as far as I'm concerned. The AS I have are fairly earned over many years and I will NOT tolerate their removal, especially if it's because SSG were not competent enough to catch cheaters.

IRL I've made money legally over my lifetime, but that doesn't entitle a court to take any of it from me because some crook robbed a bank somewhere.

This line of argument is utter nonsense.

If there are cheats, deal with them, but don't punish innocent people in the process.

If you can't square that circle, sorry but that's on you and that's where the consequences must rest. Not on the players who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[Stoner81]

I get that this is a hot topic which is why I posted it but please please we must stand together as a player base on this and not attack each other. I know tempers flare up etc but come on folks... each other are not the bad guys here... SSG are if they go through with this.

<3

Stoner81.

 

[Blerkington]

I simply dont know where that benchmark is because I dont have access to the numbers. If I did, I would be able to tell you.

I don't know how we can be this far into the discussion and you are still not getting the core point.

If you were able to see a size sorted list of everyone's AS balance you would see some large numbers at the top which you have said you would be comfortable accepting as evidence of cheating.

At some point presumably you would no longer be comfortable in your judgement. But you would be making all of those judgements without any information at all about where those numbers came from.

Even if you knew everything SSG does you cannot produce a magic number that solves this issue. At best you will remove some extreme outliers at the top, that may not even exist, but more likely you will hurt some people who have been playing the ASAH for many years.

All you are doing is proving you are up for a little Dirty Harry cosplay at someone else's expense. Both at other community members' expense and possibly at SSG's too.

People like you should be kept very far away from making decisions like this. Because you do not understand the issues involved nor do you care about the likely negative consequences of getting it wrong.

 

[Jasparius]

I don't know how we can be this far into the discussion and you are still not getting the core point.

If you were able to see a size sorted list of everyone's AS balance you would see some large numbers at the top which you have said you would be comfortable accepting as evidence of cheating.

At some point presumably you would no longer be comfortable in your judgement. But you would be making all of those judgements without any information at all about where those numbers came from.

Even if you knew everything SSG does you cannot produce a magic number that solves this issue. At best you will remove some extreme outliers at the top, that may not even exist, but more likely you will hurt some people who have been playing the ASAH for many years.

All you are doing is proving you are up for a little Dirty Harry cosplay at someone else's expense. Both at other community members and possibly at SSG's too.

People like you should be kept very far away from making decisions like this. Because you do not understand the the issues involved nor do you care about the likely negative consequences of getting it wrong.

And yet Blizzard continue to make billions of dollars with WoW even though they ban hundreds of thousands of accounts each year...

So maybe you arent on the track you think you are on.

 

[Putti]

I'm not going to get in an uproar about it until anything is actual set in stone, but I will comment on the hypothetical event that Astral Shards wouldn't transfer over.

I think that would be a huge mistake. Almost no one will be willing to leave that behind. Since platinum is practically worthless it's asking someone to leave all their wealth behind - much of which has been purchased with real money. That would be completely unacceptable.

It also makes me believe, that things such as mounts, pets and monster manual would be left behind as well. If they could not make shards transfer I don't see how they would make those work.