ATR and the upcoming caster pass

[Future]

Hey folks!

I'll preface this with I don't have time to get on Lam, and test things. But I wanted to find out, will ATR be recieving cantrips along with other casters? What concerns me is with ATR being locked out of Master of X feats, if they don't get anything out of the pass, won't they be left in the dust in the grand scheme of caster balancing?

Would love insight from those who've been able to test! Thanks.

 

[Lazuli]

No cantrip for ATr, they are hit by the universal set nerf, and benefict for the new reaper scaling.

More nerf than buff but anyways ATrs are going to be better than a tradtional caster
The pass is a disaster for casters.

 

[Future]

No cantrip for ATr, they are hit by the universal set nerf, and benefict for the new reaper scaling.

More nerf than buff but anyways ATrs are going to be better than a tradtional caster
The pass is a disaster for casters.

Really from what I understood, its worse AOE for sure, but buffed single target dps by quite a margin?

 

[Future]

Unfortunate that they don't get anything besides the reap benefactor, although I guess it makes sense

 

[Lazuli]

Really from what I understood, its worse AOE for sure, but buffed single target dps by quite a margin?

More nerfs than the aoe, which is bad itself. Some casters are better than others. My fire sorc is obliterated for example.

The pass is a caster disaster.

 

[Future]

More nerfs than the aoe, which is bad itself. Some casters are better than others. My fire sorc is obliterated for example.

The pass is a caster disaster.

Damn that sucks dude! Maybe its time to ice sorc it up lol. Thats why I went ATR, as I know it leads the caster race at the moment, plan is to stick to it until the dust settles and someone better then me comes up with a few end game caster builds.

 

[Bjond]

Really from what I understood, its worse AOE for sure, but buffed single target dps by quite a margin?

IMHO, the only part of AE that needs a nerf is the target count. I *still* regularly alert dungeons to take advantage of the unlimited target count on AE. The only thing that might keep me (and likely most others) from doing that is a count limit.

They could also do things like dividing total damage by target count and balance casters for really nice single target. That would be a ridiculously hard nerf to AE, but it's the kind of thing the game needs if they want people slow dancing in dungeons instead of zoom & boom. You'd want some AE efficiency, but that's easy to tune with a count scalar (eg. 0.8xcount).

BTW, AE changes like the above should apply game-wide; ie. across martial AE, too, not just caster AE.

 

[Cark]

More nerfs than the aoe, which is bad itself. Some casters are better than others. My fire sorc is obliterated for example.

The pass is a caster disaster.

Don't you get tired from being so negative all the time? Not trying to be rude, but I guess you have your reasons. Try to stay positive, a shake up in the meta and that they're even doing it means they are looking into things.

 

[Lazuli]

Nah that would be incredibly boring. I don't want slow dungeon completions, and if the game turn on that i'll leave for sure

Devs should remember that d&d higher levels are aoe heavy. AoE don't need a nerf.

 

[Lazuli]

Don't you get tired from being so negative all the time? Not trying to be rude, but I guess you have your reasons. Try to stay positive, a shake up in the meta and that they're even doing it means they are looking into things.

No, i'm not tired. The game is a net negative nowadays.

 

[Future]

No, i'm not tired. The game is a net negative nowadays.

Eh I wouldn't say that. Meta shifts are normal, they've listened to the community to try adjust things for a new meta. Does it perfectly align with the community 100%, nope, that's okay though - it's an MMO there's always going to be meta shifts and things players wish were different. Ultimately, they're shaking things up for what is overall a positive shift. Even if certain aspects are less powerful (Slight nerfs on aoe, I think someone said 20 % or smth), the reaper scaling being adjusted + cantrips + improved single target dps makes it a lot more viable for casters at the end game.

Caster is by far my favorite playstyle, but it's not a healthy game if casters can just zerg one shot every mob in the game, that makes it unpleasant for people who hate the caster playstyle. The idea is not to make casters omega meta again, but to balance things. We win some, we lose some and we adapt where we can.

But this is all off point to the original reason for this thread, lmfao.

 

[Future]

IMHO, the only part of AE that needs a nerf is the target count. I *still* regularly alert dungeons to take advantage of the unlimited target count on AE. The only thing that might keep me (and likely most others) from doing that is a count limit.

They could also do things like dividing total damage by target count and balance casters for really nice single target. That would be a ridiculously hard nerf to AE, but it's the kind of thing the game needs if they want people slow dancing in dungeons instead of zoom & boom. You'd want some AE efficiency, but that's easy to tune with a count scalar (eg. 0.8xcount).

BTW, AE changes like the above should apply game-wide; ie. across martial AE, too, not just caster AE.

Yeah, my original thought for caster pass was to have casters either gear/build specifically for AOE, or gear/build specifically for high / consistant single target dps. But this actually makes a bit more sense.

 

[Lazuli]

What meta shift? Casters are terrible since 3 years, and they are being nerfed more.

And nowadays melees have AoE better than casters, but QC isn't being nerfed. Have u seen the AoE of bows in lammania? AoE should be a caster thing, and it shouldn't be nerfed, and less martials should have better AoE than magic.

 

[Greywolf]

I play Melee, Caster, and Ranged, and reading through the balance proposals, as they are worded now, here is how I interpret them:

Melee: Major nerf to Dragonlord's roar. New clicky that buffs single target damage for THF. Vanguard gets a proper crit profile. Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. This incentivizes massively Monk Shintao / GMoF builds.

Ranged: Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. Major Nerf to Shuriken (Ninja Spy core2 gutted). Major nerf to crossbows (Fusillade and No Holds Barred got something similar to the Many Shot nerf) Major buff to other throwers and longbow/shortbow. This makes 12 Ranger with Longbow for the secondary imbues from AA the best option.

Caster: Mostly buffs across the board, with some outliers that got nerfed. Frozen Wanderer 5% crit chance from 2x filigree is gone, this was the only element that had that, so probably not too big of a deal, means other elements are about the same now. Spells that had low max caster levels got normalized to 20 across the board, nice buff to divine casters (alignment spells for example). Single target spells have had their SP cost reduced, and their damage increased. Slight nerf to level 9 AoE spells (such as meteor swarm). All Master of feats are now pretty much universally useful, increasing damage of respective elements, though they are kind of required now for blasters. Cantrips added, for weak spell that can be spammed for no spell points (somehow Arcane Trickster gets no Cantrip :/ ).

 

[Future]

Casters certainly are not nerfed more. A certain playstyle variant of casters perhaps, but they have a lot more sustained dps options available, paired with overall balance passes on reaper.

A lot is likely to change still, but even if things stand as is, a small loss in AOE dps for a large gain is sustained dps is a major win compared to the current iteration, especially with improved reaper ratios.

It's okay to be disgruntled that your main needs some tweakin, but at the end of the day, the buff is not about making casters uber aoe specialists (they already are that), it's about balancing the game so they can be useful DPS slots at end-game again, (High reaper + Raid pushes) without every other playstyle feeling irrelevant). Game balance is the key. Could things have been done differently, probably - but its still a move in the right direction.

 

[Future]

I play Melee, Caster, and Ranged, and reading through the balance proposals, as they are worded now, here is how I interpret them:

Melee: Major nerf to Dragonlord's roar. New clicky that buffs single target damage for THF. Vanguard gets a proper crit profile. Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. This incentivizes massively Monk Shintao / GMoF builds.

Ranged: Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. Major Nerf to Shuriken (Ninja Spy core2 gutted). Major nerf to crossbows (Fusillade and No Holds Barred got something similar to the Many Shot nerf) Major buff to other throwers and longbow/shortbow. This makes 12 Ranger with Longbow for the secondary imbues from AA the best option.

Caster: Mostly buffs across the board, with some outliers that got nerfed. Frozen Wanderer 5% crit chance from 2x filigree is gone, this was the only element that had that, so probably not too big of a deal, means other elements are about the same now. Spells that had low max caster levels got normalized to 20 across the board, nice buff to divine casters (alignment spells for example). Single target spells have had their SP cost reduced, and their damage increased. Slight nerf to level 9 AoE spells (such as meteor swarm). All Master of feats are now pretty much universally useful, increasing damage of respective elements, though they are kind of required now for blasters. Cantrips added, for weak spell that can be spammed for no spell points (somehow Arcane Trickster gets no Cantrip :/ ).

Yeah that's pretty much how I see it, bow would be interesting never got to try that. Melee THF defo needed some love, haven't seen any in a long time.

The DS buff is a little scary, that may need some tweaking but time will tell.

Yasss no cantrips and no master of X feats is what had me concerned, lol. They aren't really getting much out of the pass besides more dps with the reaper scaling adjustments

 

[Monicle le Blair]

ATrs are going to be better than a tradtional caster

Tbh, I feel they already are better.

I was doing a heroic life and missiles were doing more or less 2k~3k dmg. Basically one shotting anything.
Now I am doing a wild mage and my delayed fireball is doing 2.2k on crits.
Sp is not a problem for now, since I am a sorc, but I can imagine how it can be taxing from going 2 sp per kill to 60 sp per kill.

 

[Future]

Tbh, I feel they already are better.

I was doing a heroic life and missiles were doing more or less 2k~3k dmg. Basically one shotting anything.
Now I am doing a wild mage and my delayed fireball is doing 2.2k on crits.
Sp is not a problem for now, since I am a sorc, but I can imagine how it can be taxing from going 2 sp per kill to 60 sp per kill.

Hmm my experience is different, I find ATR better at cap (very limited playtime), but sorc generally one shots any pack of mobs from delayed fireball onwards, you just got to zerg through to group em all up

 

[Talzor]

I play Melee, Caster, and Ranged, and reading through the balance proposals, as they are worded now, here is how I interpret them:

Melee: Major nerf to Dragonlord's roar. New clicky that buffs single target damage for THF. Vanguard gets a proper crit profile. Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. This incentivizes massively Monk Shintao / GMoF builds.

Ranged: Massive DR nerf to any build that cannot break all DR easily. Major Nerf to Shuriken (Ninja Spy core2 gutted). Major nerf to crossbows (Fusillade and No Holds Barred got something similar to the Many Shot nerf) Major buff to other throwers and longbow/shortbow. This makes 12 Ranger with Longbow for the secondary imbues from AA the best option.

Caster: Mostly buffs across the board, with some outliers that got nerfed. Frozen Wanderer 5% crit chance from 2x filigree is gone, this was the only element that had that, so probably not too big of a deal, means other elements are about the same now. Spells that had low max caster levels got normalized to 20 across the board, nice buff to divine casters (alignment spells for example). Single target spells have had their SP cost reduced, and their damage increased. Slight nerf to level 9 AoE spells (such as meteor swarm). All Master of feats are now pretty much universally useful, increasing damage of respective elements, though they are kind of required now for blasters. Cantrips added, for weak spell that can be spammed for no spell points (somehow Arcane Trickster gets no Cantrip :/ ).

I think this is a very good quick summary of the salient points in the new update, except that I think you forgot the uncapping of double strike, which is a significant boost for melee.

 

[rabidfox]

Caster: Mostly buffs across the board, with some outliers that got nerfed. Frozen Wanderer 5% crit chance from 2x filigree is gone, this was the only element that had that, so probably not too big of a deal, means other elements are about the same now. Spells that had low max caster levels got normalized to 20 across the board, nice buff to divine casters (alignment spells for example). Single target spells have had their SP cost reduced, and their damage increased. Slight nerf to level 9 AoE spells (such as meteor swarm). All Master of feats are now pretty much universally useful, increasing damage of respective elements, though they are kind of required now for blasters. Cantrips added, for weak spell that can be spammed for no spell points (somehow Arcane Trickster gets no Cantrip :/ ).

Casters lost some gear stacking, so they lost 6% crit, 15% crit damage, and some spell power. So at cap, any caster that's been using min/maxed gear has reduced AoE damage just off the gear stuff (as the AoEs most people use at cap were already MCL20). The loss of stats from gear for single target spells got offset by the master of stuff and MCL changes (a net gain for single target damage).

The big winner for casters is leveling will be nicer and smoother. Cantrips will make earlier levels better to do as a pure caster that doesn't want swing a weapon for the first few levels. And the MCL changes will make some spells not hit artifical walls mid-heroics.