ATR and the upcoming caster pass

[Sturmbb]

Don't you get tired from being so negative all the time? Not trying to be rude, but I guess you have your reasons. Try to stay positive, a shake up in the meta and that they're even doing it means they are looking into things.

May i ask if you have run a caster lately. Mine is parked after the disaster that was the DC caster pass. When i heard about it. I decided to bring my caster out of retirement (which i hadnt played in a number of years) and started grinding for equipment to get my DC to a respectable level.
After about 4-5 months of grinding. Just before the update hit, i believe i was running at 89 DC. (i'm a casual player, so that is actually pretty good)
once the pass had been released i was up to 92 DC. which means all of my spells fail even on normal.

I think casters are not meant to be played by casual players. I tend to advise new caster players that they really need to run something else
Usually a ranged character. They are much better to play and can actually contribute at end game.

I'm back on my other toons and pretending my caster toons don't exist.

The cantrips are a nice idea, but the biggest problem with casters are DC's. Until Caster DC's match tactical DC's you are always going to have this problem. i mean spending 2 AP's to get 1 caster DC but you can spend 2 AP's to get 6 Tactical DC's is just crazy balancing. Until this is resolved playing casters is not really viable for anyone but the best / dedicated players (who can get the acquire the best gear and farm the most lives).

Mobs are being balanced against tactical DC's which can get crazy high, with gear, stats, trances, trees etc. So by balancing against tactical DC's, the casting DC's suffer greatly.

It's a shame really. As most fantasy games i play, i tend to pick the casting type.

 

[PersonMan]

Intensify is more mandatory than before (as Maximize power is being shifted there). Epic + Legendary Spell Focus were just recently made extremely desirable. Master of ___ feats are not free; the gain from taking them must also factor the loss from whatever you have to give up to take them.

 

[Jaspar]

Really from what I understood, its worse AOE for sure, but buffed single target dps by quite a margin?

Dungeons way worse. Raid bosses better to way better depending.

 

[Jaspar]

More nerfs than the aoe, which is bad itself. Some casters are better than others. My fire sorc is obliterated for example.

The pass is a caster disaster.

Scorching ray will go through the roof wont it?

Meteor swarm single target will be solid but aoe will be bad.

Isnt that basically similar to all other casters ?

Or is there something else for fire sorc?

Im currently farming with a fire sorc but will go for Fighter whenthe update is out.

 

[Jaspar]

Casters lost some gear stacking, so they lost 6% crit, 15% crit damage, and some spell power. So at cap, any caster that's been using min/maxed gear has reduced AoE damage just off the gear stuff (as the AoEs most people use at cap were already MCL20). The loss of stats from gear for single target spells got offset by the master of stuff and MCL changes (a net gain for single target damage).

The big winner for casters is leveling will be nicer and smoother. Cantrips will make earlier levels better to do as a pure caster that doesn't want swing a weapon for the first few levels. And the MCL changes will make some spells not hit artifical walls mid-heroics.

Will Wizards do better just because they have more feats and should now load up on the Mental Toughness feats to get the cantrips hitting harder?

 

[Lazuli]

No xd.it isn't the same. With maximice nerfed and intensify and mastery feats mandarory, there aren't room for Ruins. And fire has terrible sinergy with Magus. Additionally, MS actually does less damage than iceberg. With the nerf, MS will do a lot less damage.

So It isn't the same. Cold will be better, fire will be worse. Cold is already better element, soon will be the only option. Balance is reduce the variabiliy of the game?

The pass is pure garbage.

 

[Lazuli]

Will Wizards do better just because they have more feats and should now load up on the Mental Toughness feats to get the cantrips hitting harder?

You're overrating cantrips. Cantrips aren't going to be great in the endgame. Many mandatory feats are epic, and wizards get the same number of epic feats as everyone else.

 

[ChickenMobile]

Intensify is more mandatory than before (as Maximize power is being shifted there). Epic + Legendary Spell Focus were just recently made extremely desirable. Master of ___ feats are not free; the gain from taking them must also factor the loss from whatever you have to give up to take them.

What I don't like about this, is Intensify reduction is hard to get without particular epic destinys (free for t5 Magus) while Empower had the same cost with better reduction support in caster trees.
They also didn't reduce the cost of maximize in ratio to how much power it lost - ?. But guess it's fine they didn't increase Intensify's cost.
...
Maybe I'm just cheesed that I finally got Buckle of Secrets only for Intensify to be a better choice. For info: I had to choose between Intensify or Empower because of a lack of feats.

 

[investigator]

Don't you get tired from being so negative all the time? Not trying to be rude, but I guess you have your reasons. Try to stay positive, a shake up in the meta and that they're even doing it means they are looking into things.

Yeah bozo, if Lazuli did that she would be disappointed for 3-4 years in a row. I wonder if DDO players got an infinite lifespan, because all you people say is "keep waiting, try to be positive" lmfao.

 

[norriskwondo]

Really from what I understood, its worse AOE for sure, but buffed single target dps by quite a margin?

And how often do you fight single monsters in this game?! Just another caster nerf then

 

[Kimbere]

Casters lost some gear stacking, so they lost 6% crit, 15% crit damage, and some spell power. So at cap, any caster that's been using min/maxed gear has reduced AoE damage just off the gear stuff (as the AoEs most people use at cap were already MCL20). The loss of stats from gear for single target spells got offset by the master of stuff and MCL changes (a net gain for single target damage).

The big winner for casters is leveling will be nicer and smoother. Cantrips will make earlier levels better to do as a pure caster that doesn't want swing a weapon for the first few levels. And the MCL changes will make some spells not hit artifical walls mid-heroics.

You forgot to include that this will also saddle casters with even more feat taxes than they were already struggling with before.

 

[Tumideon]

You forgot to include that this will also saddle casters with even more feat taxes than they were struggling with before.

I think that is the worst part. The Elder's Set being fixed after all this time does suck, but not everyone has the set bonus augs for them, I know I sure don't (not that I play much caster anymore but that doesn't matter).

It's nice to see some of the ancient Epic/Destiny Feats get love, but really SSG should've waited for another update to do that so they can update the EDs and add ones for Warlocks and Alchys, where you can pick them up for free, or autogrant a free feat for X levels of a caster class.

I made the same comment on the main caster thread, but this actually hampers folks creativity a lot more. You're already punished for not playing pure or a synergistic mix, but now with all the must-have feats to make up for the Lvl 9 debuffs you're missing out on the Feat-specific spells (which is stupid) or anything for flavor you may have wanted to run with.

Why Ruin, G.Ruin, BoGW, Hellball, and the other spells aren't just given in spell books automatically is beyond me. Really dumb design tying spells to Feats. Hell, I'd argue even tying any martial AOE skill to Feats is also dumb.

 

[Vua]

And how often do you fight single monsters in this game?! Just another caster nerf then

What is currently considered the most powerful caster relies mostly on single target spells and their AOE spell range is about an arms length.

 

[mikarddo]

Caster: Mostly buffs across the board,

The good caster spells have been gutted - the high level AoE ones.
Nerf to spell crit chance by 6% is bad.
Nerf to maximize is bad.

Upgrades to Master of.. and Intensity are nice - but runs straight into the fact that casters are heavily feat taxed.
R10 buff is long overdue.
Cantrips will have a use for sure but hardly an interesting buff and in most cases will not be very useful.
Lower cost on single target spells is only relevant in raids, but casters will still be worse than ranged dps in raids so it hardly matters.
MCL changes will probably be good for leveling in some cases but leveling is already dirt easy and the nerf to maximize more than counters that as leveling is often more about aoe damage.

Overall, I do not see buffs across the board. I see an overall nerf to casters, sadly, where I was expecting a clear buff.

 

[Greywolf]

The good caster spells have been gutted - the high level AoE ones.
Nerf to spell crit chance by 6% is bad.
Nerf to maximize is bad.

Upgrades to Master of.. and Intensity are nice - but runs straight into the fact that casters are heavily feat taxed.
R10 buff is long overdue.
Cantrips will have a use for sure but hardly an interesting buff and in most cases will not be very useful.
Lower cost on single target spells is only relevant in raids, but casters will still be worse than ranged dps in raids so it hardly matters.
MCL changes will probably be good for leveling in some cases but leveling is already dirt easy and the nerf to maximize more than counters that as leveling is often more about aoe damage.

Overall, I do not see buffs across the board. I see an overall nerf to casters, sadly, where I was expecting a clear buff.

I don't see this as "gutted", it is a slight haircut:
Meter Swarm does from 1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4 (Ave 17 level)

The feat tax is kind of a problem for some classes, especially for Druid, which gets no bonus feats, and casts multiple element spells. Not a problem for classes that get bonus feats such as Wizard and Arcane Trickster.

 

[Mnemor]

I don't see this as "gutted", it is a slight haircut:
Meter Swarm does from 1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4 (Ave 17 level)

The feat tax is kind of a problem for some classes, especially for Druid, which gets no bonus feats, and casts multiple element spells. Not a problem for classes that get bonus feats such as Wizard and Arcane Trickster.

Not true, ,many mandatory feats are epic, and in epics all toons have the same number of feats.

And, why nerf aoe lv 9 spells? they do already less damage than the single target ones.

 

[rabidfox]

I don't see this as "gutted", it is a slight haircut:
Meter Swarm does from 1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4 (Ave 17 level)

1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4
2+1+1.5+1 = 5.5 x4 = 22 per level
2+1+1.5 = 4.5 x4 = 18 per level

22 down to 18 is 18% reduction in average damage. One's view on that being gutted or a slight haircut will probably vary from person to person.

 

[Mnemor]

It's gutted. If the spell were doing an op dps, then would be a haircut. But when the dps is meh, a nerf means gutted spell.

Do devs know how bad are the spells nowadays?

 

[norriskwondo]

1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4
2+1+1.5+1 = 5.5 x4 = 22 per level
2+1+1.5 = 4.5 x4 = 18 per level

22 down to 18 is 18% reduction in average damage. One's view on that being gutted or a slight haircut will probably vary from person to person.

It's gutted. If the spell were doing an op dps, then would be a haircut. But when the dps is meh, a nerf means gutted spell.

Do devs know how bad are the spells nowadays?

They must, they keep nerfing the hell out of casters every chance they get. They treat casters as if they're a fortification in a battle. They strategically chip away at it until it's gone and collapsed so you can obliterate the enemy. Seems to me the devs view casters as the enemy. Based on their behavior, they don't dare make a comment and give us transparency

 

[Concavenator]

One's view on that being gutted or a slight haircut will probably vary from person to person.

haha casters r already bald before this haircut