bardbarian supercrit build question

[Scrag]

From: handaxe supercrit build

I cant seem to get ddo builder with handaxes to give me 15-20 crit profile.

Specifically, the closest I can get is 16-20 using legendary firesplitter.

If I use dino handaxe, it just gives me 17-20. (subtract 1 for perfect swf, since the builder doesn't seem to include that somehow).

Am I missing something? Dino is 20x3.

It should be 20 - (2 for swashbuckling) - 1 (pswf) - 1/2? (improved crit slashing).

My stats:


Active Auto Controlled Stances
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Single Weapon Fighting
Axe
Swashbuckling
Empty Offhand
Hand Axe
Shadar-Kai
Light Armor
True Neutral



Enhancements: 80 APs
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Shadar-Kai - Points spent: 17
Core1 Grit
Core2 Ability I: Intelligence
Tier1 Vicious Chain
Tier1 Student of Pain - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Guile I
Tier2 Forceful Chain
Tier2 Improved Dodge - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ghastly Chain
Tier3 Displacement
Tier3 Guile II
Tier4 Greater Spiked Chain Attack
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Swashbuckler - Points spent: 13
Core1 Confidence
Tier1 On Your Toes - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Limber Up - 1 Ranks
Core2 Swashbuckling
Tier2 Fast Movement
Tier2 Action Boost: Double Strike Boost - 1 Ranks
Tier3 Swashbuckling Style: Dashing Scoundrel
Tier3 Different Tack: Two Steps Ahead
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Frenzied Berserker - Points spent: 32
Core1 Die Hard
Tier1 Cracking Attack - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Die Harder - 3 Ranks
Core2 Frenzied Toughness I
Tier2 Blood Tribute - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Body Blow - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Extra Action Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Constitution I
Tier3 Supreme Cleave - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Blood Trail - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Constitution II
Tier4 Wade In - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Focused Wrath - 2 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harper Agent - Points spent: 8
Core1 Agent of Good I
Tier1 Strategic Combat I
Tier1 Harper Enchantment
Tier2 Know the Angles - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 10
Core1 Knife Expertise
Tier1 Mist Stalker I
Tier1 Acrobatic - 3 Ranks
Core2 Knife Juggler
Tier2 Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
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[Rehmlah]

Hmm, Swashbuckling's critical threat range bonuses are supposed to be doubled when you have the appropriate Improved Critical feat. I'm only seeing the base +2 added by the builder (and, interestingly, seeing "keen/impact" appear instead of the improved crit feat for the other +1 in the breakdown. Swashbuckling's bonuses do not get increased by keen/impact). This looks like a problem with the builder.
Do note that PSWF increases your vorpal range (default 20 regardless of weapon), not your critical range, so that does not factor into this.

 

[Scrag]

Hmm, Swashbuckling's critical threat range bonuses are supposed to be doubled when you have the appropriate Improved Critical feat. I'm only seeing the base +2 added by the builder (and, interestingly, seeing "keen/impact" appear instead of the improved crit feat for the other +1 in the breakdown. Swashbuckling's bonuses do not get increased by keen/impact). This looks like a problem with the builder.
Do note that PSWF increases your vorpal range (default 20 regardless of weapon), not your critical range, so that does not factor into this.

So in game its 15-20, but builder is wonky? I will get the 15-20x5 with dino handaxe? Sweet! I have one!

 

[misterski]

So in game its 15-20, but builder is wonky? I will get the 15-20x5 with dino handaxe? Sweet! I have one!

You missed the little note at the end of his post. PSWF only affects vorpal threat range, not crit threat range.

 

[Maetrim of Cannith]

Hmm, issue with the builder noted. I will see what can be done about this at some point

 

[Scrag]

You missed the little note at the end of his post. PSWF only affects vorpal threat range, not crit threat range.

From: handaxe supercrit build

You missed the little note at the end of his post. PSWF only affects vorpal threat range, not crit threat range.

Right, that should be 19-20 x6, else x5 for multipler from vorpal with pswf.

It is mentioned a couple of times in the linked build that improved crit and swashbuckling should be making this 15-20.

Is this related to @Rehmlah 's comment that ddobuilder seems to be inaccurate? Is the extra 1 crit range from the epic destinies? There are 3 builds in the thread; I am cribbing off @unbongwah 's build in that thread.

Am I missing something? I just dont see how in the two build breakdowns from @Strimtom bring in the extra +1 crit range to bring it from 16-20 down to 15-20.

In either case, 16-20 is pretty nice at x5.

 

[unbongwah]

How the bonuses stack for handaxes:

• 20/x3 base
• 18-20/x3 Swashbuckling
• 15-20/x3 Swashbuckling + Improved Critical (actual feat, not Keen property)
• 15-20/x5 Swashbuckling + Improved Critical + Focused Wrath

You can verify it for yourself with a SDK alt (in this case rogue 7 / barbarian 5 / bard 3).

For named weapons with altered crit profiles: Axe of the Unseen Blow is 15-20/x6; Legendary Forgotten Axe is 14-20/x5.

Perfect Single Weapon Fighting doesn't increase your critical threat range, it doubles your vorpal range to 19-20. Which means a 10% chance of proccing effects like Vorpal weapons or Fatesinger's Reign ("Your Vorpal Strikes cause 7/9/11d20 Electric and Sonic damage. Scales with Melee and Ranged Power by 300%").

 

[Scrag]

That is AWESOME.

Since this seems to be a huge damage smash em glass cannon looking build.

Would you recommend putting 13 into fatesinger "The Rhythm to Reign: You generate 15/25/35% less threat from all sources.", and some points into shadowdancer for "Cover of Darkness (nightshield, -30% threat), ddoor, sneak dice, trap skills, and generally chunks of t2 and lower?

 

[choco1212]

You want the 19\20 vorpal range
and the Fatesinger extra damage on vorpal, you also want to be using stormreavers thunderclap affect items(there are a couple) as it does a lot of sonic and lightning damage on a vorpal, so at the point may as well use either armour or hand axe that has dripping with magma affect. Depending if you use shield, US is a good option with shadow and Fatesinger, if you want to be tanky as well 15-20 x 5 is nice, chains attacks on a 19\20 will be x9

 

[Scrag]

You want the 19\20 vorpal range
and the Fatesinger extra damage on vorpal, you also want to be using stormreavers thunderclap affect items(there are a couple) as it does a lot of sonic and lightning damage on a vorpal, so at the point may as well use either armour or hand axe that has dripping with magma affect. Depending if you use shield, US is a good option with shadow and Fatesinger, if you want to be tanky as well 15-20 x 5 is nice, chains attacks on a 19\20 will be x9

So, magmatic reaver is keen. That wouldn't give you 15-20, because keen doesnt work with improved critical, correct?

 

[Spook]

Keen does not double the critical range of swashbuckling (from +2 to +4) so you will want improved critical anyway

 

[Scrag]

Keen does not double the critical range of swashbuckling (from +2 to +4) so you will want improved critical anyway

So the end result is the same then? Works for me!

I have never run that raid, is it hard to find a team for? That thing looks pretty cool, possibly cooler than a dino handaxe!

 

[unbongwah]

So, magmatic reaver is keen. That wouldn't give you 15-20, because keen doesnt work with improved critical, correct?

It's not that Keen "doesn't work" with Improved Critical, but that they don't double-stack. However you need the Improved Critical feat regardless, both to activate the extra +2 crit range from Swashbuckling (listed as +4 Competence bonus in my screenshot) and to take Overwhelming Critical epic feat, so don't drop it from this build even if you plan on using a Keen weapon.

 

[Scrag]

It's not that Keen "doesn't work" with Improved Critical, but that they don't double-stack. However you need the Improved Critical feat regardless, both to activate the extra +2 crit range from Swashbuckling (listed as +4 Competence bonus in my screenshot) and to take Overwhelming Critical epic feat, so don't drop it from this build even if you plan on using a Keen weapon.

I took improved crit as soon as I could in the build.

I have found that the forgotten axe nets me 14-20 x5. I am definitely focused on getting the epic version of that, because its pretty awesome.

 

[choco1212]

So the end result is the same then? Works for me!

I have never run that raid, is it hard to find a team for? That thing looks pretty cool, possibly cooler than a dino handaxe!

People still run it all the time due to it being a double threads raid. It is a very good axe, it has invuln, it ignores fortification on a vorpal(so 19-20) so you will never get a huge crit resisted. A dino axe has other benefits, exceptional stat, dust\vuln etc and able to fit it in a 5 part dino set

 

[gvcddo]

How the bonuses stack for handaxes:

• 20/x3 base
• 18-20/x3 Swashbuckling
• 15-20/x3 Swashbuckling + Improved Critical (actual feat, not Keen property)
• 15-20/x5 Swashbuckling + Improved Critical + Focused Wrath

You can verify it for yourself with a SDK alt (in this case rogue 7 / barbarian 5 / bard 3).

For named weapons with altered crit profiles: Axe of the Unseen Blow is 15-20/x6; Legendary Forgotten Axe is 14-20/x5.

Perfect Single Weapon Fighting doesn't increase your critical threat range, it doubles your vorpal range to 19-20. Which means a 10% chance of proccing effects like Vorpal weapons or Fatesinger's Reign ("Your Vorpal Strikes cause 7/9/11d20 Electric and Sonic damage. Scales with Melee and Ranged Power by 300%").

Do you happen to have a full build for this? Thank you

 

[unbongwah]

Do you happen to have a full build for this?

I posted one here. Also possible as DEX-based with Horizon Walker's No Step Missed instead of Harper Agent's Know the Angles; in which case you take Weapon Finesse instead of Insightful Reflexes. APs get tighter, though, since KtA is 6-8 APs while NSM is 11-13 so you have to drop something.

 

[Scrag]

This build was immense fun. I made tweaks here and there but largely it is 90-95% the same. I ran with magmatic reaver (god I loved that thing).

The gear was a challenge for me to sort, but listening to friends and doing my own exploration I was able to pick the best (for me) gear for my small past life accessibility. I did not know until shortly before I tr'd that the t5 chain attack is _different_ from the regular chain attack. Didn't much matter though, I already had gobs of cleave action going on with my zero cost supreme cleave going to town.

LOVED this build.

 

[Aerendil]

Hate to bump this, but it seems obvious that Bard / Fighter-Dragonlord can achieve the exact same build now, and may be the new and improved Bardbarian.

With built-in trance, and some CC from DL on top, it's a pretty mean beast. STR or CHA both work well - if CHA, 11 points in FI gets you CHA-to-hit, shortswords to level with (can later switch out), and GCS which, combined with DL's roar, provides a crazy amount of CC.

 

[HoopleHead]

Axe of Adaxus has a crazy crit multiplier... too bad it's base damage hasn't aged well :(

I have a bunch of them stashed on a mule somewhere