Bastard Sword & Board - combat style feats...

[mn--]

So. I decided to play a Sword and Board Warpriest of Helm at least for once.

(I'm going for a PDK 15 Cleric / 4 Fighter / 1 Wizard level split for 3 Fighter bonus feats and some enhancements, and one bonus metamagic. Oh and the racial bonus feat, Bastard Sword proficiency from deity and Tower Shield proficiency from Fighter.)

At low levels it's been going about as expected (for a mostly "flavor" build), but for later levels... the combat style feats are a bit of a question. Looking at them in the old "Character Builder Lite", it says that the Specialty (level 31) feats have an antirequisite of the same style's Greater feat; ddowiki only says that they require of a different style's Greater feat.

Which one of these is correct, or is there a more complicated dependency setup in there? Also a bit of a feat slot shortage of course even with those...

I was kind of looking at probably Greater and Perfect Shield Mastery and Two Handed Specialty, but is there a better way? Does that actually block Greater THF?

 

[unbongwah]

Both are correct: you need a Greater combat-style feat that is different from the Specialty feat you want to take. So in your case, if you took the heroic Greater Shield Mastery feat, you would take THF Specialty to gain the THF x3 chain for the added Strikethrough and damage modifier to bastard swords while S&B.

 

[mn--]

Well yeah, I get that I need that Greater style feat from another style. But since I actually seem to now have enough feats to get both GSM and GTHF before 20 if I really want to, can I still take either of those for the Specialty feat?

And even if I can do that, should I? As in, do some of these just not stack enough to be worth it, or...?

I mean, something approximately like this for all the feat slots I should get for this specific build (not counting deity and domain feats). And yes, the melee power certainly doesn't seem to stack, so PTHF would be all of +1 melee power and some strikethrough since it doesn't give more stat bonus for hand-and-a-half. (But hey, strikethrough is fun.)

Feats (Errors)

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 PDK. . : Shield Mastery
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.3. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.6. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.7 Fighter: Improved Shield Bash
.9. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
.9 Wizard : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
15. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
18. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
19 Fighter: Greater Shield Mastery
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
22 Destiny: Perfect Shield Mastery
24 Epic . : Great Ability: Constitution
25 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Forced Escape
30 Epic . : Bulwark of Defense
30 Legend : Scion of: Limbo
31 Destiny: Two Handed Specialty

Character Builder Lite says I just can't take THS if I have GTHF, though - that's what the "Errors" is for... but that's where the wiki seems to disagree?

And there certainly are plenty of other feats to take instead... like casting and tactics and...

 

[l_remmie]

Do you want to have fun shield whacking while leveling AND not stay at cap for long. Then just take the shield feats.

If you plan to stay at cap for a bit then you are probably better of taking some other feats and pick perfect shield stuff at 31.

 

[unbongwah]

But since I actually seem to now have enough feats to get both GSM and GTHF before 20 if I really want to, can I still take either of those for the Specialty feat?

IMO there are two basic use-cases for the Weapon Specialty feats at endgame:

• You're playing a feat-starved build which benefits from two combat styles simultaneously; and you either can't afford both lines while leveling or you want to use those 3 heroic feats for other things. E.g., paladin Vanguard with Shield Mastery + THF lines for stacking bonuses to hand-and-a-half weapons; or pure Swashbuckler with SWF+Shield Mastery feats.
• You're playing a SWF build which also wants TWF or THF (which are otherwise blocked by SWF), either for variety's sake or stacking bonuses (e.g., SWF dwarf paladin with THF Specialty using dwarven axes for +120% Strikethrough).

If none of those conditions apply to your build - or you plan to reincarnate ASAP rather than spend time at endgame - the Weapon Specialty feats are not for you.

 

[Scrag]

Pure pally vanguard dread bsword + shield was amazing. It isn't a cleric, but it was truly a blast to play. I took thf all the things and all the things shield mastery.

 

[DarthBUNBUN]

I've tried Bsword + shield on 3 builds from 1-32, and I gotta say, the worst one was warpriest. Pure 20 pally or fighter will get you that sweet +20% attack speed, which is where the the bulk of vanguard dmg comes from, and also keeps your bashes on a 1 sec CD all the time. Warpriest can mix in some spells for AOE, so they don't really need Bsword to begin with, especially when you hit epics. If you want to do melee dmg as a warpriest, you won't get much out of Bsword + shield, and you can really put those extra feats to better use, like metamagics.

Pure 20 pally was by far my best experience with Bsword + shield. I'd recommend THF as you level and shield specialty at 31. The extra damage as you level definitely makes things faster, while the extra defense from shield feats is mostly nice at cap.

 

[Scrag]

Pure 20 pally was by far my best experience with Bsword + shield. I'd recommend THF as you level and shield specialty at 31. The extra damage as you level definitely makes things faster, while the extra defense from shield feats is mostly nice at cap.

I managed to get perfect shield mastery or something, which apparently isn't supposed to be possible. Might have just been greater. In any case, it worked out as hoped. That pally has been my fav char in the past year.