Is it just me, or do bswords need help in general? I'd like to use them in a build, but just can't quite justify it from any perspective. The only (oddly enough) thing I've found so far is at least 3 bard/5 DL that lets you use bucklers, swf and thf, but then you can't use any shield stuff. Anyone have any good Bsword builds? doesn't need to be a paladin...
Bastard Sword Vanguard Help?
- Thread starter dbik123
- Start date
Paladin's are pretty awesome. Go look at Mechgrabber's thread or even Tronko's for a start on where to go as a Vanguard. You can even specialize less in vanguard and build more defense, and still be at 90+ double strike, 300+ melee power, 450+ AC, 450+ prr, and go solo r7-8s to your hearts content. If you're looking for a bastard sword build that is TOP dps that won't exist. But can you find a build or build a character that can perform well solo, in groups, and in groups? Absolutely. Paladin is easy mode lol.
gonna just point this out there - my pally is a mechgrabber pally and much less past lifed and geared. and i was able to solo raids on him
basic pally vanguard w/ bastard swds, I go human & use extra free feat to take Bstd Swds. @unbongwah might post a good build for you.
Feel like the best dps is SWF BSword 15Pal/5DL no shield. In that case a War domain Cleric/DL could work too. Art BE and Wiz EK are OK BSword user with less DPS and more utility. Bard SB doesn’t really work with BSword as it’s too big.
But pure Vanguard Pal going Capstone with shield is more defensive and the attack speed.
But pure Vanguard Pal going Capstone with shield is more defensive and the attack speed.
The shield and bsword combo is kind of the point....I just wish there was a way to make it not-so-useless. Whats the application here? I'd imagine better tactics and tanking? certainly not dps by anything I can think up.
I know there's a way to use skirmisher from swashbuckler tree (though you wont be swashbuckling) and you get to use all three trees from shield mastery, pSWF and then grab the lvl 31 2hf tree. Obv limited to bucklers at that point.
YTSESoldier
Well-known member
This. I went with pure 20 Dragonlord when they first came out as I needed the PL and wanted to see how it went. Picked up rune arms from Marcotechnic and two handed mastery at 31 for fun SWF and THF lines (you don't need 2hf for perfect 2hf) so I had 45% attack speed with 200+ % strikethrough. I liked it, it worked well but the 14/6 or 15/5 split with pally would be better obviously. I used the FOM BSword and Rune arm and Dlord gave me fire immunity stripping so it was pretty damn fun TBH.
One option I want to try in the future is 6 barbarian or Lord with 12 Arti in tier 5 ravager for the +2 crit range with +1 multi from core4 BE and of course blood strength.
Full vanguard pally is ok but I enjoyed 41 KoTC and 31 Vanguard more, for a DPS vanguard go fighter, from everyone I have spoke with it can out DPS a pally by far. Vanguards can be pretty fun with the guard breaking large shields available now from FoM and MD.
Expanded crit is the point for SB…
In that set up (3brd5DL1sdk), it could be better to use handaxe or sunblade but not BSword.
unbongwah
Well-known member
The only time pure Vanguard even came close to being top-tier DPS is when the capstone was waaay overperforming and the shield-bash stun proc chance was like 50% IIRC instead of the current 10%. More helplessness -> extra DPS vs trash mobs. But we live in a post-Dragonlord world now, DPS expectations are completely warped from what they used to be IMO and Vanguard has been left behind.
Hence my earlier question: do you want a Vanguard build or do you want a max-bastard-sword-DPS build?
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
The problem is more with shields than bswords. Shields simply have no point right now, their puny defensive advantages don't offset the huge offensive trade off
Vanguard is the only real way to salvage them, with the speed bonuses approximating swf while being able to take thf for strike through. But that requires a pure or near pure base pal or base fighter. And pal lacks the bonus feats needed to make it work, unless you're going to just wait till 31 with shield spec (which honestly isn't missing much)
So really, logic suggests you have two good options for leveling in the build. An 18/1/1 pdk fighter fvs and probably warlock, Cha based with trance, can take Helm, enough feats for thf and shield mastery and all the other melee goodies. T5 kensei, core 5 vguard, splash stal def, war soul trance, and es aura for arcane warrior. Fiend pact lets you auto trigger EA mantle for debuff too.
18 pal 1 fighter 1 lock, cha pdk as above, and just skip shield feats till 31. That would let you T5 kotc to get blessed purpose (no capstone though) and heals+buffs, but gives up a lot of mp and defense in kensei and the bonus armor feats from fighter. LoH+remove disease is kind of a sideways trade with second wind. Or you could lean waaay into speed on that split, since you get your crit from holy sword, 41 vkf 31 vguard 8 kotc
Sun blade swash is also worth mentioning, but the big concern there of course is the very specific weapon selection. We just got a new endgame sun blade which bumps the viability a lot, but you have to worry about future proofing as level cap goes up, and you'd have to acquire a couple raid weapons on the char before you even think about TRing into that build.
Also probably should be disclaimed... Both the fighter and pally build would be far easier to just level with sos/esos to 31
Vanguard is the only real way to salvage them, with the speed bonuses approximating swf while being able to take thf for strike through. But that requires a pure or near pure base pal or base fighter. And pal lacks the bonus feats needed to make it work, unless you're going to just wait till 31 with shield spec (which honestly isn't missing much)
So really, logic suggests you have two good options for leveling in the build. An 18/1/1 pdk fighter fvs and probably warlock, Cha based with trance, can take Helm, enough feats for thf and shield mastery and all the other melee goodies. T5 kensei, core 5 vguard, splash stal def, war soul trance, and es aura for arcane warrior. Fiend pact lets you auto trigger EA mantle for debuff too.
18 pal 1 fighter 1 lock, cha pdk as above, and just skip shield feats till 31. That would let you T5 kotc to get blessed purpose (no capstone though) and heals+buffs, but gives up a lot of mp and defense in kensei and the bonus armor feats from fighter. LoH+remove disease is kind of a sideways trade with second wind. Or you could lean waaay into speed on that split, since you get your crit from holy sword, 41 vkf 31 vguard 8 kotc
Sun blade swash is also worth mentioning, but the big concern there of course is the very specific weapon selection. We just got a new endgame sun blade which bumps the viability a lot, but you have to worry about future proofing as level cap goes up, and you'd have to acquire a couple raid weapons on the char before you even think about TRing into that build.
Also probably should be disclaimed... Both the fighter and pally build would be far easier to just level with sos/esos to 31
I appreciate all of your responses! Its really just kind of confirmed what I already knew...there isn't a way to make a Bsword vanguard that isn't hamstrung....which I think sucks. I knew it wouldn't be "top tier" but if you could be 80%, while have some cool stuns and what-not would be a fun playstyle...but as a previous post pointed out, DL changed a lot of dps expectations and there isn't a place for sword and board anymore for anyone but a tank. Thank you all!
Ilhares
Well-known member
I love bastard swords. I just wish, after all this time, that they'd let us properly use them without the feat (as a feat was only required to 1-hand them in tabletop) for a 2HF build. I know there are stronger swords if you go 2H, but I've got so many of them that I like I'd just like to bust them out more often.
i dont think its as bad as you say - its just limited.
its not top dps but i solo doj elite and i solo lh vod.
I tank a lot of raids, and ditched vanguard ages ago. Stalwart defender w/ shield feat is 100% better, Considering you're taking THF feats I run grt swd when not "turtled up" w/ shield. And the best race for this (for me) is DB as Unbongwah referred to. Right now with bard buffs my intim is 120 and can go higher with filigrees.
