Best 2023 Rogue2/Wizard18 Build for first life VIPs?
- Thread starter Endarire
- Start date
Whenever I've built them, I just go with my generic Wizard build except that I take Rogue at level 1 and I take my second Rogue level around 5. Other than that, it's just whatever flavor of Wizard I happen to want to run. Having max Int makes the trapping way easier for a Rogue2/Wizard18 than it is for even most pure Rogues.
"Best" is relative but since you're VIP, you'd have Harper Agent. And if you think pure casters run out of SPs too quickly, I would do a THF Eldritch Knight / Pale Master.
A few comments:
- 82 APs so without the tomes you'd drop human Spell Power Boost and a point from Pale Master or Assassin.
- +2 STR tome is required for Improved/Greater THF. If you haven't got one by level 12, take a filler feat (Toughness or whatever) and swap in ITHF after you acquire the tome (either from loot or Favor).
- +3 DEX tome is to trade Power Attack for Precision (hence starting DEX 10). This is optional but I prefer to use Precision on any non-Raging melee build. Alternatively you can either (A) dump-stat DEX and settle for Power Attack or (B) start DEX 13 INT 17 if you're less concerned with maxing your caster stat to start.
- Vistani Knife Fighter is optional, you can also grab Haste Boost from Acrobat instead.
- 8 APs Assassin is for +3 Imbue dice, you could also put those points into Pale Master for more caster bonuses like Unholy Avatar.
- This is also doable as F2P: INT to hit from Eldritch Accuracy, STR to damage. Melee DPS is lower without Know the Angles + INT to damage; but silver lining is freeing up APs for other trees: e.g., 40 Eldritch Knight / 24 Pale Master / 8 Assassin / 8 Acrobat.
Blackpeixera
New member
Yo, Unb. How would you converge this build to a F2P Gnome? I noticed too late it was a 32 pointer with Harper, how would you make this a gnome 28 pointer for HC? If Gnome is too much, Dwarf can be done too. Thanks in advance!
Gnome has -2 STR and with only 28 points going THF is probably more MAD than it can handle; so SWF is the obvious alternative like Strimtom's PM/EK build. Offhand Versatility was nerfed in the Imbue overhaul, but nothing we can do about that now, unfortunately.
You can take rogue 2 whenever you want, but I wanted it no later than level 12 so you have BAB 6 for Improved THF. Even if you need a filler feat until you farm for that +2 STR tome, you still need to make sure you meet the BAB pre-req to do the feat swap.
Human is for the extra feat and with 32-point builds I think it's a better choice than drow for a THF EK. This build is squishy enough without drow's -2 CON.
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Hey,
what do you think of this build on a deep gnome wiz, it's 32 points so 15 STR would be more manageable. The only problem I see is that the 1st has to be wiz, do you think it ruins it ?
Thanks,
cbenameur
Then you could do something like this.
Lose a feat and some skill points, but it does work if you prefer gnomes.
The answer to "When to take Rogue 2?" varies from player to player. You have to balance the desire for Evasion vs. delaying your "good" spells by another level.
Many players recommend waiting until after they get Fireball/Displacement (or whatever) (so Rogue 2 @ Char Level 7), while some players wait for Wall of Fire/Dimension Door (so CL 9). CL 5 would mean you're good with Web/Scorching Ray/Blur/etc.
Making the most of the Rogue's Skill Points is another factor to consider; it's all about personal balance.
Br4d
Well-known member
For EK/PM the spell you are really waiting for is Death Aura which you get at Wizard 7. So taking 2 levels of Rogue pushes that back to level 9 instead of level 8.
Given the number of skills that you need on this build (Balance, Disable Device, Heal, Open Lock, Search, Spellcraft, Spot and UMD) it's a tight fit if you don't take Rogue at level 1. You only get to max 6 skills at level 1 as a Wizard with an 18 Int. You will catch up a bit as you bump Int later on but probably not enough to catch up for maxing 8 skills by 20. If you have a big Int tome you might but you might not.
Given the number of skills that you need on this build (Balance, Disable Device, Heal, Open Lock, Search, Spellcraft, Spot and UMD) it's a tight fit if you don't take Rogue at level 1. You only get to max 6 skills at level 1 as a Wizard with an 18 Int. You will catch up a bit as you bump Int later on but probably not enough to catch up for maxing 8 skills by 20. If you have a big Int tome you might but you might not.
For Hardcore there's definitely strong incentive to do, say, barbarian 2 / wizard 18 instead for Blood Tribute, which would also benefit from max CON.
*he says with another TYWA build lurking in the shadows*
Because vampires are cooler and zombies takes a melee speed penalty. Wraith + Ghost in the Wind is also a good combo if you don't have 20% Incorporealty from elsewhere.
TYWA = Throw Your Weight Around, the dwarf racial enhancement which grants CON to damage (but not to hit) for certain weapons. Here's a TYWA barbarian.
I got this build to 20 and it's been fun, thanks for posting it! Any recommendations on Epic Destinies? My current thoughts were maybe Shadowdancer for improved evasion, Magus of the Eclipse for more negative and force damage? / Draconic for more EK dice?, and then maybe Fury of the Wild for Adrenaline?
Livmo
Well-known member
Because I'm lazy and have bad habits:
Notables:
- First lifer
- Mostly heroic gear
- Rest of AP spent in Falconry for Healing Amp. I scroll heal like a champ!
- I wish I had moar fortification
- I can get my INT higher. I finger and wail on everything. Then nuke or dance; burn rest with fire. Can make ice.
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