Any name I wish
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I'm wondering which cleric domain is the best one for summons and at which level?
Thank you!
Thank you!
Best domain for summons?
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WielderofGigantus
Well-known member
Summons are woefully underpowered. They're sometimes good as a distraction, but since in most cases you can only have one out at a time, they usually die fairly quickly.
3 Druid past lives can help them live for a bit longer, but they're not worth centering a build around them.
3 Druid past lives can help them live for a bit longer, but they're not worth centering a build around them.
Any name I wish
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I am mixing it with zen archery (adding ranger stuff) and cleric spells but mainly heals
vryxnr
Well-known member
They key thing here seems to be the modification to ones Turn Undead ability that adds a buff to all party members when used. Of course, do hireling and summons count as party members for these buffs? I'm not actually sure, but for the moment lets assume they do.
The Death Domain does not have this line, and so does not even qualify for consideration.
Fire Domain only increases fire resistance (twice cleric level). This is very weak.
There are several domains (air, earth, water) that increase one saving throws (half cleric level) and increase one elemental resistance (double cleric level). This is also very weak.
Law and Luck increase all saves (by half cleric level, sacred bonus and luck bonus respectively). This is also very weak.
Knowledge and Trickery are also very weak (increases the Int or Charisma of your party... this could be great for a specific real party, but not for summons/hirelings)
imo the above domains are not a consideration if the main objective is buffing hires/summons.
...now we get into the more interesting ones. Which one is best will depend on the exact nature of your party/hires/summons and possibly the content being run. Some are defensive buffs, making them tankier. The others are offensive buffs, making them deadlier, and those are further split into physical offense and spell offense.
The Chaos domain does a little bit of everything, but a random amount of each. Some may not like the randomness of it, but it does potentially cover everything (1-20 universal spell power, 1-10 of each prr, mrr, melee power and ranged power).
For the purely defensive side, you have Animal, Good, and Protection (and sorta Healing).
Animal Domain is a buff to Con scores (half cleric level). More hp = tankier.
Good Domain grants bonus Temp HP (5 x cleric level). Temp hp = tankier (it is more hp gained, but cannot be healed, only refreshed).
Protection Domain grants bonuses to bot PRR an MRR (double cleric level). PRR/MRR = tankier.
Healing grants +20 Heal Amp, so they're easier to heal... so this depends on how active you are with keeping them alive, but if you are focused on healing, then you shouldn't need the help.
On the purely offensive side, you have Destruction, Magic, Strength, and War (and situationally Sun).
Destruction and War both give a bonus to both Melee and Ranged power (divine bonus, half cleric level).
Magic grants a divine bonus to Universal Spell Power (double cleric level).
Strength gives a bonus to Str scores (half cleric level). This is okay in the early levels, but later on they get vastly outshined by percentage multipliers like melee/ranged power.
Sun grants True Seeing and negates the Incorporeality of nearby enemies. If you're fighting lots of Incorporeal enemies (which includes reapers), removing that miss chance is a HUGE boon.
...
So, given that in my experience hires/summons that cast a lot of spells tend to run out of spell points very quickly and thus are often not as useful as physical attacking ones, I'd personally lean towards either Destruction or War for the +10 mp/rp, unless you're doing lots of reaper content, at which points I'd consider Sun instead simply for Incorporeal removal. One of the defensive buffs can also be good (I run a raid healer in Protection to boost everyone's prr/mrr so they take less damage overall), but generally more offense tends to be the way to go for most scenarios.
edit: and reiterating that this all assumes it does work on them. If it does not, then the one that boosts yourself the most in the way you want is the best one, or Sun, because of the Incorp bypass.
The Death Domain does not have this line, and so does not even qualify for consideration.
Fire Domain only increases fire resistance (twice cleric level). This is very weak.
There are several domains (air, earth, water) that increase one saving throws (half cleric level) and increase one elemental resistance (double cleric level). This is also very weak.
Law and Luck increase all saves (by half cleric level, sacred bonus and luck bonus respectively). This is also very weak.
Knowledge and Trickery are also very weak (increases the Int or Charisma of your party... this could be great for a specific real party, but not for summons/hirelings)
imo the above domains are not a consideration if the main objective is buffing hires/summons.
...now we get into the more interesting ones. Which one is best will depend on the exact nature of your party/hires/summons and possibly the content being run. Some are defensive buffs, making them tankier. The others are offensive buffs, making them deadlier, and those are further split into physical offense and spell offense.
The Chaos domain does a little bit of everything, but a random amount of each. Some may not like the randomness of it, but it does potentially cover everything (1-20 universal spell power, 1-10 of each prr, mrr, melee power and ranged power).
For the purely defensive side, you have Animal, Good, and Protection (and sorta Healing).
Animal Domain is a buff to Con scores (half cleric level). More hp = tankier.
Good Domain grants bonus Temp HP (5 x cleric level). Temp hp = tankier (it is more hp gained, but cannot be healed, only refreshed).
Protection Domain grants bonuses to bot PRR an MRR (double cleric level). PRR/MRR = tankier.
Healing grants +20 Heal Amp, so they're easier to heal... so this depends on how active you are with keeping them alive, but if you are focused on healing, then you shouldn't need the help.
On the purely offensive side, you have Destruction, Magic, Strength, and War (and situationally Sun).
Destruction and War both give a bonus to both Melee and Ranged power (divine bonus, half cleric level).
Magic grants a divine bonus to Universal Spell Power (double cleric level).
Strength gives a bonus to Str scores (half cleric level). This is okay in the early levels, but later on they get vastly outshined by percentage multipliers like melee/ranged power.
Sun grants True Seeing and negates the Incorporeality of nearby enemies. If you're fighting lots of Incorporeal enemies (which includes reapers), removing that miss chance is a HUGE boon.
...
So, given that in my experience hires/summons that cast a lot of spells tend to run out of spell points very quickly and thus are often not as useful as physical attacking ones, I'd personally lean towards either Destruction or War for the +10 mp/rp, unless you're doing lots of reaper content, at which points I'd consider Sun instead simply for Incorporeal removal. One of the defensive buffs can also be good (I run a raid healer in Protection to boost everyone's prr/mrr so they take less damage overall), but generally more offense tends to be the way to go for most scenarios.
edit: and reiterating that this all assumes it does work on them. If it does not, then the one that boosts yourself the most in the way you want is the best one, or Sun, because of the Incorp bypass.
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TrappedSoulstone
Well-known member
Sun is only way to make summons have TS and "ghost touch" for duration if you want your summons to hit ghosts/reapers. Healing/defense for extra survivability. Other domains that fit your build dps/cc
vryxnr
Well-known member
There are non-domain related things you can do to buff hires and summons as well, of course. Not all will be possible (I have a charmer built specifically for the LHoX raid, where charming an enemy is the key mechanic... some of its buffs are class specific to "not-cleric", but some are universal/available to anyone which I will list below).
Every epic level grants +5 melee and ranged power, +10 universal spell power, and +5 prr/mrr. So that's a given for everyone. TBH I'm not sure if legendary levels count for this or not as this was added before legendary levels existed and I haven't done comparative testing yet.
Spells:
Haste for attack speed (scroll casting as not on the cleric list)
Bull's Strength, Mass (this is on the cleric list, yay)
Tenacious Pack for +30% fortification and +60 Heal Amp (LGS clickie as it's a druid spell, so that means farming a raid for this defensive buff)
The other buff spells specific for hires/summons are druid only and afaik don't have an alternate way to cast.
Universal Enhancement Tree: Harper Agent
* Harper Leadership (+4 to all hire/summon ability scores)
* Heroic Companion (also available via halfling): 1 minute duration, has charges, single ally target: +1[w] damage, +6 to hit, +6 all saves, +4% dodge, +10 PRR
Feats:
* Augment Summoning (+4 all hire/summon ability scores. This is also available as an augment and on several items, does not stack with itself, aug/item versions do not count as pre-reqs for the next feat)
* Improved Augment Summoning (+8 more to all hire/summon ability scores, +100 flat hp, and +10% dodge)
* Scion of Elysium (+25 prr/mrr, +20 melee/ranged power and universal spell power, +100% fortification, +5% chance to ignore all incoming damage)
Epic Destinies
Magus of the Eclipse:
* Great Summoner: +4 to all hire/summon ability scores, more HP (undefined), +100% fortification, +40% move speed
* Share the Light: your hires/summons gain the effects of your Magus of the Eclipse Mantle, and use your cold and negative spell power for its damage.
* Time Stop: 10 seconds of CC and double damage to all enemies hit by it, once every 5 minutes.
Primal Avatar:
* Natural Shielding: +60% max HP, +30 MRR, +4 Reflex Saves, and Evasion to all hires/summons.
* Friends of Nature: various small buffs depending on which animal chosen (only affects those that are active and nearby when you rest at a shrine)
* Shared Mantle: Hires/Summons gain the effects of your Primal Avatar Mantle, using your spell power values for it's damage (can only have on mantle in effect at once, so it's either this one OR the magus one, not both)
* Natures Blessing: +5% insight bonus to max HP after you rest at a shrine (only affects those that are active and nearby when you rest)
Fury of the Wild
* Primal Scream (short term moral bonus to str and con for all allies hit by it. base is +2, but there is an upgrade that doubles it to +4, though investment to get that may be too much)
Items/gear/filigrees
* Diablolists Set (this Robe/Docent + Ring combo drops from the Chronoscope raid. It comes in 3 tiers: heroic, epic, and legendary, and grants all hires/summons a +4/+8/+12 bonus to all ability scores respectively)
* Cry of Battle Filigree Set (requires a sentient weapon or a minor artifact, only available after level 20). Having the 2 piece set bonus grants +4 to all hire/summon ability scores and +20 melee power, and +20 prr/mrr. Having the 3 piece set adds the same values again, thus doubling it to +8 to all scores and +40 to mp/prr/mrr.
Guild Amenities
* Wild Grove: +3 to all hire/summon ability scores
Most of the other hire/summon buffs (inherent/all the time buffs, and short term buffs via abilities/skills/spells, are class specific and come from Bards, Monks, Warlocks, and Druids).
edit: oh yeah, and druid past lives, for +2 all scores each time taken up to 3 times for +6 total. I always forget to mention that one because it's all everyone else always talks about when this topic comes up lol.
edit 2: I should also note that trying to get every possible hire/summon buff on a single character is difficult and makes them are fairly terrible character overall. My charmer is only really "viable" in that one raid. While I can use hires/summons to complete quests, it takes a LOOONG time compared to my other characters. However, so long as you don't push too high in the reaper difficulty, or are very patient, it is possible to do. There are others who have done high reaper with an army of buffed hires, it just takes longer to do. I'm not saying to not do this though, just to manage your expectations.
Every epic level grants +5 melee and ranged power, +10 universal spell power, and +5 prr/mrr. So that's a given for everyone. TBH I'm not sure if legendary levels count for this or not as this was added before legendary levels existed and I haven't done comparative testing yet.
Spells:
Haste for attack speed (scroll casting as not on the cleric list)
Bull's Strength, Mass (this is on the cleric list, yay)
Tenacious Pack for +30% fortification and +60 Heal Amp (LGS clickie as it's a druid spell, so that means farming a raid for this defensive buff)
The other buff spells specific for hires/summons are druid only and afaik don't have an alternate way to cast.
Universal Enhancement Tree: Harper Agent
* Harper Leadership (+4 to all hire/summon ability scores)
* Heroic Companion (also available via halfling): 1 minute duration, has charges, single ally target: +1[w] damage, +6 to hit, +6 all saves, +4% dodge, +10 PRR
Feats:
* Augment Summoning (+4 all hire/summon ability scores. This is also available as an augment and on several items, does not stack with itself, aug/item versions do not count as pre-reqs for the next feat)
* Improved Augment Summoning (+8 more to all hire/summon ability scores, +100 flat hp, and +10% dodge)
* Scion of Elysium (+25 prr/mrr, +20 melee/ranged power and universal spell power, +100% fortification, +5% chance to ignore all incoming damage)
Epic Destinies
Magus of the Eclipse:
* Great Summoner: +4 to all hire/summon ability scores, more HP (undefined), +100% fortification, +40% move speed
* Share the Light: your hires/summons gain the effects of your Magus of the Eclipse Mantle, and use your cold and negative spell power for its damage.
* Time Stop: 10 seconds of CC and double damage to all enemies hit by it, once every 5 minutes.
Primal Avatar:
* Natural Shielding: +60% max HP, +30 MRR, +4 Reflex Saves, and Evasion to all hires/summons.
* Friends of Nature: various small buffs depending on which animal chosen (only affects those that are active and nearby when you rest at a shrine)
* Shared Mantle: Hires/Summons gain the effects of your Primal Avatar Mantle, using your spell power values for it's damage (can only have on mantle in effect at once, so it's either this one OR the magus one, not both)
* Natures Blessing: +5% insight bonus to max HP after you rest at a shrine (only affects those that are active and nearby when you rest)
Fury of the Wild
* Primal Scream (short term moral bonus to str and con for all allies hit by it. base is +2, but there is an upgrade that doubles it to +4, though investment to get that may be too much)
Items/gear/filigrees
* Diablolists Set (this Robe/Docent + Ring combo drops from the Chronoscope raid. It comes in 3 tiers: heroic, epic, and legendary, and grants all hires/summons a +4/+8/+12 bonus to all ability scores respectively)
* Cry of Battle Filigree Set (requires a sentient weapon or a minor artifact, only available after level 20). Having the 2 piece set bonus grants +4 to all hire/summon ability scores and +20 melee power, and +20 prr/mrr. Having the 3 piece set adds the same values again, thus doubling it to +8 to all scores and +40 to mp/prr/mrr.
Guild Amenities
* Wild Grove: +3 to all hire/summon ability scores
Most of the other hire/summon buffs (inherent/all the time buffs, and short term buffs via abilities/skills/spells, are class specific and come from Bards, Monks, Warlocks, and Druids).
edit: oh yeah, and druid past lives, for +2 all scores each time taken up to 3 times for +6 total. I always forget to mention that one because it's all everyone else always talks about when this topic comes up lol.
edit 2: I should also note that trying to get every possible hire/summon buff on a single character is difficult and makes them are fairly terrible character overall. My charmer is only really "viable" in that one raid. While I can use hires/summons to complete quests, it takes a LOOONG time compared to my other characters. However, so long as you don't push too high in the reaper difficulty, or are very patient, it is possible to do. There are others who have done high reaper with an army of buffed hires, it just takes longer to do. I'm not saying to not do this though, just to manage your expectations.
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Archest
Well-known member
yet still repeatedly outlive players
They have lag resistance
If you add a zero to a number, you get the same number.
unbongwah
Well-known member
Druid.
Any name I wish
Member
Thank you all for the replies, I've decided to ditch the summons (and focus on melee) utilizing trickery domain, healing aside.. I've went with something different overall, will post my build later :]
If you want to focus on melee, War domain is hard to beat, because of Holy Sword SLA. Unless you have other ways to improve your Crit profile, like Vistani tree or certain multiclass options.
STR-based melee cleric is actually pretty decent, Warpriest T5 has +6 sacred STR among other goodies.
Any name I wish
Member
I'm taking 5 cleric for patching my monk and fighter,, although I'm mainly WIS based the STR surely helps me remain centered plus the BAB, aside from that I chose Trickery domain for the invisibility SLA
Enoach
Well-known member
There isn't a domain specifically geared towards summons. However, the short bursts from TU have different benefits that can buff them after they are summoned.
That being said, I do think two ways that they can improve summons is by
1. Adding a summon UI basic commands like stay/follow, attack/defend - for those with "hands" an interact
2. Add a # scaling based on the level of spell - Example choosing celestial hound from 4th level spell slot would summon 3 hounds (might need to define an upper limit to avoid too many)
That being said, I do think two ways that they can improve summons is by
1. Adding a summon UI basic commands like stay/follow, attack/defend - for those with "hands" an interact
2. Add a # scaling based on the level of spell - Example choosing celestial hound from 4th level spell slot would summon 3 hounds (might need to define an upper limit to avoid too many)