Black globe of slime - SOLVED!

[Chacka]

TR didn't exist when the policy was first implemented, and it may well be that it was never reexamined after TR became the primary gameplay loop.

You're right, but true reincarnation doesn't directly contradict BtC in general. TR only contradicts to the opinion of someone who wants an item to be BtC because he wants to roll on an item someone else looted, with the argument that the looter's current character and build has no use for it. There is no valid reason left for players to ask for BtC on those grounds, because with TR every character has potential use for every item – and technically it cannot be 'greed' to loot every item that is in your chest. And if the developers' reason was to support players holding this strong 'need before greed' opinion, they have no reason to keep this BtC policy up anymore.

In addition, there are also several items that never have any chance of going to another player anyway – for example if you take a minor artifact from a saga reward list, or if you acquire a raid item with raid runes. Like I said before, the only reason I can imagine for making such items BtC is that the developers want us to get such items several times. But why they want it is a mystery to me and I can only speculate here. I believe it makes DDO worse, and in the very end it is a lose-lose for players and SSG.

For every other purpose, Bound to Account is an absolutely sufficient restriction.

 

[Phaedra]

In addition, there are also several items that never have any chance of going to another player anyway – for example if you take a minor artifact from a saga reward list, or if you acquire a raid item with raid runes.

These are also later additions. I think the most likely answer is that it was a decision made during development that has simply never been reconsidered. Carried forward now into new content by force of habit alone.

 

[saekee]

Thank you to the community in this thread for the journey!

 

[Chacka]

These are also later additions. I think the most likely answer is that it was a decision made during development that has simply never been reconsidered. Carried forward now into new content by force of habit alone.

The reason I can imagine is that the first minor artifacts SSG introduced were initially planned as raid rewards and got BtC for that reason – and they never changed that policy. But I might be wrong, because there is at least one minor artifact that is BtA: the Epic Voice of the Master. Just my speculation of course.

For the raid items, I can imagine that the developers didn't want to do the additional work of giving us two versions – one BtC from the end chest in the raid and one BtA for the runes. But here too I am only speculating; the devs might have other reasons. The problem is that the developers don't tell us – maybe because they actually have no reason other than "historical" or "tradition"?

And I would not even ask for a retroactive change of old items, because that might be additional work that is not worth it. But at least they should not do additional work to change BtA to BtC, or they should at least change the policy for the future.

 

[PaleFox]

The reason I can imagine is that the first minor artifacts SSG introduced were initially planned as raid rewards and got BtC for that reason – and they never changed that policy. But I might be wrong, because there is at least one minor artifact that is BtA: the Epic Voice of the Master. Just my speculation of course.

For the raid items, I can imagine that the developers didn't want to do the additional work of giving us two versions – one BtC from the end chest in the raid and one BtA for the runes. But here too I am only speculating; the devs might have other reasons. The problem is that the developers don't tell us – maybe because they actually have no reason other than "historical" or "tradition"?

And I would not even ask for a retroactive change of old items, because that might be additional work that is not worth it. But at least they should not do additional work to change BtA to BtC, or they should at least change the policy for the future.

Two versions of the same items is just asking for trouble down the road (maintenance wise on the backend of things.)

Perhaps not as much as having different affixes that try and do the same thing. (looks at The Epic Band Immaterial and is puzzled why this one did not get an upgrade to VIII / IX (Or the Gloves of the Master Illusionist of various levels.)
Artefacts also wind up on the story saga reward list and that is all BtC, right?

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Easy answer Chaka: Your loot is your loot.

Nobody is entitled to do anything to it but you.

Keep it if you want it for any reason whatsoever. That's not greed, just plain fact.

If somebody doesn't like not getting passed loot they are not entitled to, one response: Go git lucky, punk!

 

[Edrein]

Not to spoil the fun - But I want to lay out early that these weapons are not meant to be summoning slimes - as flavorful as that is. The text on the Slime effect is meant to be the entire effect.

Not quite sure how that may have slipped into the entirely new version of this that I made, about to go digging, but if the Oozing Hunger weapons are spawning slimes, that's going to get patched out in the near future. Sorry to all the slime-summoning advocates out there <3

Please reconsider that; for all of the effort that goes into making them allowing them to summon slimes is actually a draw. I've held out on starting the chase personally to see if people would confirm whether or not the effect did act like ooze, now to hear you'll patch that out later is disappointing.

 

[Chacka]

Two versions of the same items is just asking for trouble down the road (maintenance wise on the backend of things.)

Perhaps not as much as having different affixes that try and do the same thing. (looks at The Epic Band Immaterial and is puzzled why this one did not get an upgrade to VIII / IX (Or the Gloves of the Master Illusionist of various levels.)
Artefacts also wind up on the story saga reward list and that is all BtC, right?

Right, but my point is that those items – the raid items from runes and the BtC minor artifacts – never have any chance of being passed to someone other than you. That is exactly why I wonder even more why such items are BtC at all. Like I said, I strongly believe all DDO players should have the freedom to do with their items whatever they want on their own account. There is no reason for any restriction beyond BtA, unless you could exploit BtA – like for the Saltmarsh VIP ticket.

 

[Chacka]

Easy answer Chaka: Your loot is your loot.

Nobody is entitled to do anything to it but you.

Keep it if you want it for any reason whatsoever. That's not greed, just plain fact.

If somebody doesn't like not getting passed loot they are not entitled to, one response: Go git lucky, punk!

That's basically what I say after careful consideration, because I can understand people who really want a specific item and then someone else loots it – that is always a 'non-ideal situation', so to speak. But whoever loots an item has by default the first right to it, and they should have the freedom to decide what to do with it. And it is wrong to try to force someone to pass an item for a roll by making it BtC, thereby limiting its usefulness for the owner and making it more likely that they give it up.

'Need before greed' as an argument for BtC really just means: give me your loot because I need it more than you do. So who is actually the greedy one here?

 

[Rosze]

Slimes

Please reconsider that; for all of the effort that goes into making them allowing them to summon slimes is actually a draw. I've held out on starting the chase personally to see if people would confirm whether or not the effect did act like ooze, now to hear you'll patch that out later is disappointing.

If it summoned gelatinous cubes it would be cool. But issue with all summons are they make raids annoying. They are great at taking agro and being in the way so for most people not summoning things is ideal

 

[saekee]

Slimes

If it summoned gelatinous cubes it would be cool. But issue with all summons are they make raids annoying. They are great at taking agro and being in the way so for most people not summoning things is ideal

Do folks think raiders will be using these weapons? I thought the whole appeal was that they were great for non-raiders, hence why summoning slimes was no big deal.

Either way the Dark Lord has spoken and said they will not summon slimes.

So far I have seen folks running around with them as cosmetics so go with their green gear and reaper wings.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

I'll use a shuri in raids if it doesn't summon. Two dripping procs plus a combi of shadowhorn debuff and dust. Sounds good to me.

 

[Cyran]

You're right, but true reincarnation doesn't directly contradict BtC in general. TR only contradicts to the opinion of someone who wants an item to be BtC because he wants to roll on an item someone else looted, with the argument that the looter's current character and build has no use for it. There is no valid reason left for players to ask for BtC on those grounds, because with TR every character has potential use for every item – and technically it cannot be 'greed' to loot every item that is in your chest. And if the developers' reason was to support players holding this strong 'need before greed' opinion, they have no reason to keep this BtC policy up anymore.

Fun fact the original Raid system in DDO the group leader got to decide who could loot or not. The raid chest would have 2 random raids items from the list of raid items in it guaranteed never less never more. The guild leader would get 2 special items at completion that was require to remove the raid items. It was up to raid leader to hand out those 2 items to loot from chest or if they chose he could just take it for himself but that would very quickly get you blacklisted from people willing to raid with you. My guild generally had a policy of who ever leading would allow anyone in group to roll on raid loot but I was cuss out on a few occasions for allowing someone to roll on loot that they did not think should be allowed too.

They then added the ability to set the raid group to random assignment of the two loot stones instead of guild leader (it was a setting that had to be set at start weather it was random or group leader got them) but that had it own issues and was barely used. Finally they went to raid dropping randomly in chest for each person.

Even worse Raid loot use to take perm damage. I lost my first Sword of Shadow to perm damage.

This to say I mostly agree with you whatever reason they had original for BtC loot was for a game that nothing like the game we have today and probably should be re-examine. I also don't think it would be that hard to keep a BtA version and BtC version they already done it for other loot, For example Barovian weapons bought with token bound to char while ones you loot is BtA.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Not to spoil the fun - But I want to lay out early that these weapons are not meant to be summoning slimes - as flavorful as that is. The text on the Slime effect is meant to be the entire effect.

Not quite sure how that may have slipped into the entirely new version of this that I made, about to go digging, but if the Oozing Hunger weapons are spawning slimes, that's going to get patched out in the near future. Sorry to all the slime-summoning advocates out there <3

Hey SS any update on when these will get patched and fixed please? I got a shuriken sitting on the metaphoric shelf waiting to stop summoning oozes and get used...

 

[PaleFox]

Hey SS any update on when these will get patched and fixed please? I got a shuriken sitting on the metaphoric shelf waiting to stop summoning oozes and get used...

@SteelStar
And please response with "never" as an overwhelming part of the community gave raving feedback that they want oozes!

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

@SteelStar
And please response with "never" as an overwhelming part of the community gave raving feedback that they want oozes!

SS already confirmed it's a bug that will be fixed soon. Just a question of how soon.

Nice try though.

 

[PaleFox]

SS already confirmed it's a bug that will be fixed soon. Just a question of how soon.

Nice try though.

No, that was an unconfirmed assumption of which the outcome read false.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

No, that was an unconfirmed assumption of which the outcome read false.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

stop summoning oozes

But but but... oozes is sooo fun! I like oozes!

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

But but but... oozes is sooo fun! I like oozes!

So do I - I run with ooze in quests but not in raids.