Buff warlock single target damage

GrizzlyOso

Well-known member
People are just either disingenuous or not knowledgeable enough to understand single versus aoe versus leveling versus r10 versus raid versus push raid.

Sine target casting clearly needs a buff, but the powers that be seem to only “balance” casters on aoe.

Also the powers that be don’t seem to actually do any balance. But of course, we all know the current group producing this are not good at it.
 

Vua

Well-known member
I think you meant Inquisitive build.
I don't have enough experience with ranged to say anything, so i've tried to avoid commentimg on it. And the only ranged guy we run with is running a bank toon because he is never off the TR train. And he hits like a bank toon should so no worries there.
 

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
Would be curious how adding ruin and greater ruin into the Warlock approach affects it. I realize this opens can of worms regarding the arti options.

My math is very old. The last time I tested cold warlock rotation in T5 draconic was after U58 and with a single 15 second rotation:

11 eldritch blasts was less than 20% of the total damage
1 greater ruin was 22% of the total damage and 1 ruin was 11% of the damage (but not buffed by mrr reductions)
The draconic mantle and inevitable was 30% of the damage

So yes if you want single target dps to be optimized on a warlock at end game you need greater ruin, ruin with T5 draconic. Arcane pulse is also additive damage for a warlock, but that is not the case for most casters.

Any test of warlock dps should include greater ruin and ruin because anyone serious about maximizing their single-target dps will take those. That would be like testing a kukri without patience and overwhelming critical. Critical epic feats need to be part of any test to compare to martial builds that have epic feats built into their damage.

After U58 a cold warlock did 184k in 15 seconds which was well under melees and ranged builds- that didn't include debuffs and vulnerability that warlock gets in soul eater. With inflation I would guestimate that is more like 250k now, but I haven't kept up on measuring a warlock rotation. I built a warlock on Cormyr because it's ok for soloing quests and can be useful as a debuffer in raids since I don't think people are specifically building debuffers on Cormyr.

For a warlock you have to be creative and look at things like ash and ooze for debuffing, the acid and cold rings form LOB/MA and things like dripping with magma. Debuffing and additive damage are more important for a warlock as their blast is not so great.

I agree with the OP simply raising the focused blast % should be done and said so several times over the past decade.

With that said, the last time I tested clearing a dungeon with a warlock vs. a sorc it wasn't nearly as much of a difference as you might think considering warlock likely has the lowest single-target dps in the game. Well-built warlocks can still clear dungeons fast, but if all you do with bosses is eldritch blast then you should be aware there are better options for a warlock.
 
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rabidfox

The People's Champion
Any test of warlock dps should include greater ruin and ruin because anyone serious about maximizing their single-target dps will take those. That would be like testing a kukri without patience and overwhelming critical. Critical epic feats need to be part of any test to compare to martial builds that have epic feats built into their damage.
1m22s warlock vs 22s bubble arti when I used actives like gruin/ruin and fusilade/epic strike/etc. Cold lock is slightly better with the extra crit and other goodies (it was still subpar last I used it for boss damage); it's on my cycle to try again in the near future with MD gear/newer things squeezed in, but I don't expect the single target boss damage to be solved by that. But someone can always toss up their cold lock's times if they've got one geared out currently, would be nice to see.

edit: I feel like magus w/epic stike + zero degree + time stop might potenially be the way to go; but I have to be in the mood to full deck out the gear toward cold and mess with it vs t5 DI.
 
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rabidfox

The People's Champion
I have had a few folks message me telling me my warlock time was faster than what they do on their various non-warlock builds vs Stonejaw. I know a while back Cordovan did it on his Friday's at 4 and it took almost 20 minutes (back when level cap was 32 and likely it was an undergeared non-warlock alt just doing it for giggles). So flavor and/or more casual setups will be slower, just like a well optimized cold (or another fiend lock that's rigged up more DPS centric / etc.) will be faster. The exact scaler value the single target blasts would be need adjusting to bring the ceiling up and reduce the gap is really where I'm most curious about.
 
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Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
1m22s warlock vs 22s bubble arti when I used actives like gruin/ruin and fusilade/epic strike/etc. Cold lock is slightly better with the extra crit and other goodies (it was still subpar last I used it for boss damage); it's on my cycle to try again in the near future with MD gear/newer things squeezed in, but I don't expect the single target boss damage to be solved by that. But someone can always toss up their cold lock's times if they've got one geared out currently, would be nice to see.

edit: I feel like magus w/epic stike + zero degree + time stop might potenially be the way to go; but I have to be in the mood to full deck out the gear toward cold and mess with it vs t5 DI.

Zero degree comet damage numbers seem higher than I would expect given the stated damage. Still, I think T5 Draconic with tier 4 magus has better single-target damage. Magus might be better in groups where the whole group benefits from time stop. But it could be something changed since the last time I tested it. The draconic mantle + inevitable helps out quite a bit against bosses.
 

mikarddo

Well-known member
It was just convenient and safe spotable. The worm in MD would be better if someone else was tanking it for me as the amount of HP there is a massive difference and it'd live beyond an epic moment. I wasn't really deep diving into a perfect test enviroment, min/max the builds fully, etc. I just wanted an easy visual show of what it feels like doing boss fights. If I actually thought SSG was going to revist warlock damage then I'd go thru more rigerious setups and testing (and comparing various warlock builds). This fight was just on par with my typical experiences these days when running these builds in quests and my frustation how a quest goes completely smoothly & fast until the end where it becomes a total slog.

Thanks. We have been using the giant in the cards quests on R4 with a tank holding aggro for parsing lately. It has been quite an eyeopener for some people. Best time is 1m 51s sofar - with others taking 2-5 times longer.

I still wish we had a better parse target though - or better yet the ability to simply direct the combat log to a local file (still only own damage). I remember many years ago when a 3rd party tool made that possible.
 

Tuxedomanwashere

Well-known member
Incorrect, it was FOTM when it was released. It was so good that the devs brought out the sledgehammer to nerf it. After that it was still decent until the caster nerfs last spring.
It was less like smashing something with a sledgehammer (which I liken more to placing a greatly disproportionate nerf on one or maybe two aspects) and more like seeing a finger infected with gangrene and proceeding to saw off the arms and the legs to make sure the infection didn't spread. They often take no half measures when it comes to nerfing things, which makes me wonder how hard you have to fudge the math (in a more sympathetic light) or engage in questionable practices (in a more critical light) to feel the need to nerf every aspect of a class or build. Inquisitive was the same; nerfed dice, nerfed range power scaling, nerfed doubleshot...
 
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Epicsoul

Lava Divers Assistant to the Regional Manager
Any test of warlock dps should include greater ruin and ruin because anyone serious about maximizing their single-target dps will take those. That would be like testing a kukri without patience and overwhelming critical. Critical epic feats need to be part of any test to compare to martial builds that have epic feats built into their damage.
I get what you're saying and I agree those tools are needed to maximize DPS. However, the OP's point is that Eldritch Blast, a core mechanic of the class, is under performing--and it is. In a way, your suggestion is no different than my sarcastic one: Warlocks would do more damage be invest 41 points into Inquisitive. But that's not the point, is it?
 

bleach

Well-known member
Any test of warlock dps should include greater ruin and ruin because anyone serious about maximizing their single-target dps will take those. That would be like testing a kukri without patience and overwhelming critical. Critical epic feats need to be part of any test to compare to martial builds that have epic feats built into their damage.

Well-built warlocks can still clear dungeons fast, but if all you do with bosses is eldritch blast then you should be aware there are better options for a warlock.

This ^^^^^^^
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
I think one thing that is not talked about enough is DC when these discussions come up. DPS goes in the tank if mobs are saving. Trash DPS goes in the tank if your CC helpless doesn’t land.

It takes trade offs there to hit end game DC.

What is a good DC target I try to hit 130 but is that too high? Too low (I dont think so).
 
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