Call Lightning Storm can be really strong, especially on an air Savant

Silverhilt · May 7, 2023

Clever use of H-Elf, Strimtom!

Eserbe · May 7, 2023

As a Call Lightning Storm enjoyer I'm definitely going to give this a go next sorc life.

Fisto Mk I · May 7, 2023

Strimtom said:
Legendary: Scion of the Plane of Fire

Fire? Why not Air?

Strimtom said:
Eye of the Beholder: Charisma

Double rare Eye/Grave instead? +16 USP, -1DC.

Strimtom said:
Legendary Shield of the Scorpion

Legendary Immaculate Globe? +20 permanent Alchemical Efficacy is nice... 8)

Strimtom · May 7, 2023

Fire because the dodge doesn't work, and all you lose is 5% crit multi and 10 SP.

The filigree selection is for beginners, since raiders already know to use raid filigree.

Shields give great defense for starters, but the globe can work instead for sure if you don't need the defense.

Craigoth · May 7, 2023

This build looks like lots of fun.

Is there any reason not to take the "Least Dragonmark of Storm" at first level rather than level 12? It seems this would allow the "Greater Dragonmark of Storm" enhancement to be taken much earlier.

Sisho · May 7, 2023

Craigoth said:
This build looks like lots of fun.

Is there any reason not to take the "Least Dragonmark of Storm" at first level rather than level 12? It seems this would allow the "Greater Dragonmark of Storm" enhancement to be taken much earlier.

Unless you're dumping points in the Half-Elf enhancement tree, you would not practically have the Greater Dragonmark of Storm until level 12.

He mentions in the video that Call Lightning doesn't really last long enough pre-12 to be useful as well.

Isilion · May 8, 2023

This is very interesting as I'm just doing H-Elf racials. Currently level 7 stormsinger so wondering how to juggle AP's to fit this in (currently have 4 racial AP's)

DeathTitan · May 10, 2023

I saw the video and call lightning storm has a duration of 1 minute and 50 seconds, and because it lasts 3 seconds per level then it's cast at level 34 (not at caster level over 45 as you wrote).
On my cold druid it lasts 1 minute and 33 seconds, that means that it's cast at level 31.

And what do you mean by "hit extremely hard"? Show a video soloing r10 with that build so we can see what do you mean by "hard" at that difficulty. So far I saw a maybe "r1" difficulty "the end of the road"? (I would not call 3k damage at r1 difficulty "hit extremelyl hard").

I see 490 damage (non critical) at r10 difficulty with a level 32 druid with just universal spell power equipment.

And what's the evocation DC of the build you posted? I read 86 but I can't believe that it's so low at level 32: everything will save that DC at high reaper.

Strimtom · May 10, 2023

DeathTitan said:
I saw the video and call lightning storm has a duration of 1 minute and 50 seconds, and because it lasts 3 seconds per level then it's cast at level 34 (not at caster level over 45 as you wrote).
On my cold druid it lasts 1 minute and 33 seconds, that means that it's cast at level 31.

And what do you mean by "hit extremely hard"? Show a video soloing r10 with that build so we can see what do you mean by "hard" at that difficulty. So far I saw a maybe "r1" difficulty "the end of the road"? (I would not call 3k damage at r1 difficulty "hit extremelyl hard").

I see 490 damage (non critical) at r10 difficulty with a level 32 druid with just universal spell power equipment.

And what's the evocation DC of the build you posted? I read 86 but I can't believe that it's so low at level 32: everything will save that DC at high reaper.

So as I explained, I don't use the druid version of the spell since it stops gaining levels at level 20, with only additional bonuses from epics and your seasons herald bringing it up. I use the version from the half elf that scales with character level going up to level 32, which then gains +6 from epic levels, +7 from air savant, for a minimum of level 45. It's much higher than druid, which is why I didn't make a druid but instead made a half elf with the dragonmark!

For the damage, the spell does 1d6+6 damage per level, so at level 45 that is 45d6+270, or 427.5 average damage per hit, and it hits every 3 seconds. It's almost as much damage as ruin, not including the T5 draconic incarnation ability that adds additional damage based on your choice element. An air sorcerer should have around 900 spellpower in town and it is effected by all metamagics, so with an extra 300 from there we get around 1200 spellpower, or x13 damage, bringing the 427.5 to ~5557 damage per hit, not including critical strikes. This damage is consistant and happens every 3 seconds, so it adds about 1800 non-crit dps to the table on a single target. Of course, criticals are a thing, and casters are able to get about 60% crit chance now a days, and with scion feats and dinosaur bone gear you can grab easily +60% critical multiplier, bringing the average hit to 10,891 (crit damage would be 14,448 on average, but only 60% crit chance) which would add a good chunk of added single target for bosses. Remember, this damage does not have a spellpoint cost so it is just granted as additional damage! I'm not doing the math for druid, because druid is worse and has nothing to do with my video.

My evocation DC in the build posted is what a reasonable DC would look like for a first life caster with no tomes, or past lives, with minimal raid gear for people to get started. Ideally you want to have above 110 with evocation, especially with the prevalence of evasion, but that requires a bit more gear intensive stats. If you're struggling with evocation DCs, I recommend using ruin/greater ruin, as well as possible trying to use blightcaster or acid sorcerer since those classes have either fortitude save for damage, or simply have spells with no saving throw!

Edit: So I rewatched my video, because sometimes I do worry about whether I explain things well, since you have very clearly thought I was talking about druid lightning storm during my video. So I gave it a rewatch just in case, and from 1:18 - 6:02 I very clearly explain the concept of caster levels, and explain why we do not use druid and how this spell is mediocre for druid. So you may have watched the wrong video! I would recommend checking the video linked at the top of the thread here, it will help out with the misunderstanding I think

DeathTitan · May 10, 2023

I don't know how to explain you better the caster level of that spell: you can see it by it's duration, view again your own video and when you cast it the duration is 1 minute and 50 second (it could be 1 minute and 51 seconds)

Because the spell lasts 3 seconds per level and the spell lasts 1 minute and 50 seconds, which caster level it is?
1 minute and 50 seconds are 110 seconds, so 110 seconds / 3 seconds per caster level = call lightning storm is cast at level 37.

If the spell was cast at caster level 45, then its duration would be 45 * 3 = 135 seconds (but you don't see anywhere 2 minutes and 15 seconds duration in the buff bar).

You then say +6 from epic levels when the epic levels are only 10 and you get +1 for every 2 epic levels (you don't have to consider the 2 legendary levels from level 31 and 32, but only the "epic" levels that go from level 20 to 30 for the caster level/max caster level bonus).

All the damage math you did is wrong and it's not demonstrated in any videos.
I really suggest you to step up your game play and show only videos where you solo R10 legendary quests (even small pieces if you can't complete the whole quest).

I watch your videos and Vodoo videos and there are interesting parts, but I will never take seriously yours or Vodoo builds if those builds play in full R10 groups (where the others do all the work) or solo r1 quests.

Strimtom said:
So as I explained, I don't use the druid version of the spell since it stops gaining levels at level 20, with only additional bonuses from epics and your seasons herald bringing it up. I use the version from the half elf that scales with character level going up to level 32, which then gains +6 from epic levels, +7 from air savant, for a minimum of level 45. It's much higher than druid, which is why I didn't make a druid but instead made a half elf with the dragonmark!

For the damage, the spell does 1d6+6 damage per level, so at level 45 that is 45d6+270, or 427.5 average damage per hit, and it hits every 3 seconds. It's almost as much damage as ruin, not including the T5 draconic incarnation ability that adds additional damage based on your choice element. An air sorcerer should have around 900 spellpower in town and it is effected by all metamagics, so with an extra 300 from there we get around 1200 spellpower, or x13 damage, bringing the 427.5 to ~5557 damage per hit, not including critical strikes. This damage is consistant and happens every 3 seconds, so it adds about 1800 non-crit dps to the table on a single target. Of course, criticals are a thing, and casters are able to get about 60% crit chance now a days, and with scion feats and dinosaur bone gear you can grab easily +60% critical multiplier, bringing the average hit to 10,891 (crit damage would be 14,448 on average, but only 60% crit chance) which would add a good chunk of added single target for bosses. Remember, this damage does not have a spellpoint cost so it is just granted as additional damage! I'm not doing the math for druid, because druid is worse and has nothing to do with my video.

My evocation DC in the build posted is what a reasonable DC would look like for a first life caster with no tomes, or past lives, with minimal raid gear for people to get started. Ideally you want to have above 110 with evocation, especially with the prevalence of evasion, but that requires a bit more gear intensive stats. If you're struggling with evocation DCs, I recommend using ruin/greater ruin, as well as possible trying to use blightcaster or acid sorcerer since those classes have either fortitude save for damage, or simply have spells with no saving throw!

Edit: So I rewatched my video, because sometimes I do worry about whether I explain things well, since you have very clearly thought I was talking about druid lightning storm during my video. So I gave it a rewatch just in case, and from 1:18 - 6:02 I very clearly explain the concept of caster levels, and explain why we do not use druid and how this spell is mediocre for druid. So you may have watched the wrong video! I would recommend checking the video linked at the top of the thread here, it will help out with the misunderstanding I think

PraetorPlato · May 10, 2023

I had a few quick questions:

-Why don't you take mass hold? Especially if you're dc challenged, holding monsters seems really impactful, and probably better than energy drain.
-Why not 7 piece autumn for the dps increase if you're gearing 6 piece autumn already? I'm pretty sure you could make room—maybe swap the shield for the Hallowsphere, which also gets you insightful impulse. Because of 5 piece dread isle set, you don't need profane well rounded, right? I think that would be a ~5-10% raw increase in damage, which seems very worthwhile.
-Where are you getting insightful/quality CHA?

Build concept is super clever, though!

Strimtom · May 10, 2023

DeathTitan said:
I don't know how to explain you better the caster level of that spell: you can see it by it's duration, view again your own video and when you cast it the duration is 1 minute and 50 second (it could be 1 minute and 51 seconds)

Because the spell lasts 3 seconds per level and the spell lasts 1 minute and 50 seconds, which caster level it is?
1 minute and 50 seconds are 110 seconds, so 110 seconds / 3 seconds per caster level = call lightning storm is cast at level 37.

If the spell was cast at caster level 45, then its duration would be 45 * 3 = 135 seconds (but you don't see anywhere 2 minutes and 15 seconds duration in the buff bar).

You then say +6 from epic levels when the epic levels are only 10 and you get +1 for every 2 epic levels (you don't have to consider the 2 legendary levels from level 31 and 32, but only the "epic" levels that go from level 20 to 30 for the caster level/max caster level bonus).

All the damage math you did is wrong and it's not demonstrated in any videos.
I really suggest you to step up your game play and show only videos where you solo R10 legendary quests (even small pieces if you can't complete the whole quest).

I watch your videos and Vodoo videos and there are interesting parts, but I will never take seriously yours or Vodoo builds if those builds play in full R10 groups (where the others do all the work) or solo r1 quests.

The character in the video is level 27 for the demonstration of the play style, because this build is designed for levelling and to be fun. The math isn't wrong; I just because I didn't show it in the video, I didn't fully gear it for super endgame because I wanted to move on to other things. If I made a mistake in my calculation, please let me know and I can adjust it, but it looks correct to me.

I don't like playing R10 solo. It's just not fun to me, so I'm not going to do it. Reaper mode is a game mode designed for group play, which is why there are penalties to self healing and monsters that require different strategies to overcome. I like doing reaper mode with my friends and pugs, so I don't see a need to do this. I think it's cool that some people do, but it just isn't for me.

If you are an endgame solo R10 beast, then my build videos are probably not super helpful for you since I make mine mostly for finding fun character as well as putting together builds for beginners, which is a very different expectation than R10. It's why I posted this character build as a 28 point first life without using any universal enhancement trees instead of using my racial completionist for comparison. Sorry if you got the impression I was making R10 solo builds but that has never been my goal, I try to focus more on getting people into the game and giving them effective builds for getting started for the most part.

PraetorPlato said:
I had a few quick questions:

-Why don't you take mass hold? Especially if you're dc challenged, holding monsters seems really impactful, and probably better than energy drain.
-Why not 7 piece autumn for the dps increase if you're gearing 6 piece autumn already? I'm pretty sure you could make room—maybe swap the shield for the Hallowsphere, which also gets you insightful impulse. Because of 5 piece dread isle set, you don't need profane well rounded, right? I think that would be a ~5-10% raw increase in damage, which seems very worthwhile.
-Where are you getting insightful/quality CHA?

Build concept is super clever, though!

-No mass hold because on the first life version it's too hard to get the DCs built up for two different spell schools imo; if you have some built up gear, past lives, tomes, and filigrees, you can definitely make it work and it's a fantastic spell for any sorcerer.
-The gear is designed for beginners who more often than not will struggle with living, which is why the shield works. The substitution for 7 piece autumn is a good idea, but it also comes at the sacrifice of a fair amount of PRR, MRR, and taking extra damage from AOE effects which can be impactful for beginners who aren't great at position and might get hit by a bunch of extra spells.
-Thank you for the notes about the gear! It's one of the reasons I don't always include an endgame set is that it can take an extra hour to put the gear together and then still have some glaring errors.

Changes:
-Shield swapped for the wheel of saint Marie to keep isle of dread set
-15 spell agility augment required to get 0 ASF with tower shield added to chest piece.
-Shoes swapped for sunken slippers with Q3 charisma
-Ins charisma augment added to gear

PraetorPlato · May 10, 2023

Strimtom said:
-No mass hold because on the first life version it's too hard to get the DCs built up for two different spell schools imo; if you have some built up gear, past lives, tomes, and filigrees, you can definitely make it work and it's a fantastic spell for any sorcerer.
-The gear is designed for beginners who more often than not will struggle with living, which is why the shield works. The substitution for 7 piece autumn is a good idea, but it also comes at the sacrifice of a fair amount of PRR, MRR, and taking extra damage from AOE effects which can be impactful for beginners who aren't great at position and might get hit by a bunch of extra spells.
-Thank you for the notes about the gear! It's one of the reasons I don't always include an endgame set is that it can take an extra hour to put the gear together and then still have some glaring errors.

That all makes sense—I think mass hold might be better than wail then. I played a pretty under geared sort at cap last life (only +2 tome, night mother's scepter+wild flame+flamecleansed+random other sharn gear, definitely worse than this set, although I did have reaper dc bonuses and festive cha + gh augment) last life, and mass hold worked 80+% of the time up to r4 sharn on anything that survived the first wave of blasting, but wail normally failed to instant kill (probably 40% success rate on archers).

Endgame gear is definitely annoying. The sets I've put together tend to look better without autumn, but that does require elder's knowledge gear tetris, so probably not worth it.

MSC · May 10, 2023

DeathTitan said:
You then say +6 from epic levels when the epic levels are only 10 and you get +1 for every 2 epic levels (you don't have to consider the 2 legendary levels from level 31 and 32, but only the "epic" levels that go from level 20 to 30 for the caster level/max caster level bonus).

All the damage math you did is wrong and it's not demonstrated in any videos.
I really suggest you to step up your game play and show only videos where you solo R10 legendary quests (even small pieces if you can't complete the whole quest).

Level 32 gives the Legendary Knowledge feat for free, which does the exact same thing as Epic Knowledge, so an at cap character will get +6 caster level and max caster levels.

How is the damage math wrong? Mind actually explaining how it is wrong?

Solo R10 is an incredibly narrow scope to make builds for, and only applies to an infinitesimally small portion of the game's playerbase. A fun build that deals good damage for potential new players is a totally reasonable thing to make builds for (especially since many new players get confused on how to make a build; if you are at the point of solo'ing R10's you should be able to make godly builds on your own imho).

Tronko · May 11, 2023

I don't want to get into the specifics of the video (which I haven't seen

) or the build, but call lightning storm is a great spell because it's a buff, it does passive damage (1d6+6/level), and you can also use it to apply debuffs.

Ganak · May 16, 2023

Love the video, very well done!

C-Dog · May 23, 2023

Craigoth said:
Is there any reason not to take the "Least Dragonmark of Storm" at first level rather than level 12? It seems this would allow the "Greater Dragonmark of Storm" enhancement to be taken much earlier.

Sisho said:
Unless you're dumping points in the Half-Elf enhancement tree, you would not practically have the Greater Dragonmark of Storm until level 12.

He mentions in the video that Call Lightning doesn't really last long enough pre-12 to be useful as well.

Actually, if "dumping AP into the Half-Elf tree", you get it for only 12 AP, just before Level 4. Only lasts 3 shots, true, but it's "doable".

But that aside, a typical Sorc' wants Maximize + Empower asap to power their SLA's. Delaying Maximize +/or Empower hurts the overall DPS considerably. A starting sorcie can put 2 AP into each of Maximized Burning Hands and Acid Spray, plus have 1-2 regular offensive (non-SLA) spells (I like a "x-bolt"), and they can handle most any situation in Korthos (if by taking their time between fights, or kiting until the cooldowns expire). By the time they get Empower (start of Level 3), they've got a couple more spells and are good for Borderlands and on to The Harbor.

Quicken comes in at 6, about the time that all offensive spells become too big to be handled without.

That said, getting the Electric Loop SLA for 7 AP is very attractive! (Air Savant tree offers it for 23 AP, and the spell arrives w/ Sorc 4.) The question then is "Is it as attractive if there are no metamagics behind it?"

I might be tempted to get it as early as Level 3, after Maximize, and go with an AP split of 7 racial/x/y. The added Crowd Control of 'Loop could offset any loss in DPS from delaying Empower - if you have the DC's to land it consistently! So it would depend on gear/past lives/etc. (If you're thinking for HardCore, those are going to be largely non-existent.

)

Of course, if this is off HC and you have a pile of free Racial AP and/or the PL's to delay the +Evoc feats, then grabbing the DM earlier (at 3 or 6) becomes far more attractive.

C-Dog · May 23, 2023

Strimtom said:
Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Half-Elf - Points spent: 12
Core1 Half Elven Versatile Nature
Core2 Elven Dexterity / Human Adaptability I: Human Adaptability: +1 Charisma
Tier1 Lyrandar Dragonmark Focus - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Improved Dilettante I: Improved Dilettante: Paladin
Tier2 Lesser Dragonmark of Storm
Tier2 Improved Dilettante II: Improved Dilettante: Paladin
Tier3 Greater Dragonmark of Storm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eldritch Knight (Sorc) - Points spent: 23
...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Savant - Points spent: 45
Core1 Air Savant
Tier1 Spell Critical: Electric I
Tier1 Electrocution - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Efficient Metamagic I: Efficient Maximize - 3 Ranks
Core2 Air Affinity
Tier2 Spell Critical: Electric II
Tier3 Efficient Metamagic II: Efficient Quicken - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Charisma
Core3 Greater Air Affinity
Tier3 Spell Critical: Electric III
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Charisma
Tier4 Efficient Heighten - 2 Ranks
Tier4 Feather Fall
Core4 Conduction
Tier4 Spell Critical: Electric IV
Tier5 Wind Dance
Tier5 Awaken Elemental Weakness: Electric
Tier5 Evocation Focus
Core5 Light on Your Feet
Core6 Elemental Apotheosis: Air

Strim - you dismiss the Sorc SLA's in your vid ("This spell is bad...") and say "they're really expensive". I won't disagree w/ Shocking Grasp*, but I find Electric Loop a great spell! The ability to cause several targets to slump over and drool into their shoes while you deal with their friends is huge. With Heighten, it can easily last into early Epics, and the chain effect gives it a wider "footprint" than Web (not making it "better than", just diff utility).

As for expense, additional AP beyond the 1st only reduce cool-down; if you're just using as an opening CC effect, that's 1 AP, totally worth it imo (or 2 AP for 2 of them w/ the DM!). And you can always dump them once Heighten isn't enough for mid-/later Epics.

(* There is a way to make it better with Enlarge, but it's still not AoE like Burning Hands or Acid spray - and that's a diff build)

Svirfneblin · May 23, 2023

Call Lightning casting is slow.

“Just you wait until I’m done casting my SPELL!!”

Call Lightning Storm can be really strong, especially on an air Savant

Silverhilt

Well-known member

Eserbe

Member

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member

Strimtom

Well-known member

Craigoth

New member

Sisho

New member

Isilion

Member

DeathTitan

Well-known member

Strimtom

Well-known member

DeathTitan

Well-known member

PraetorPlato

Well-known member

Strimtom

Well-known member

PraetorPlato

Well-known member

MSC

Well-known member

Tronko

Well-known member

Ganak

Member

C-Dog

Well-known member

C-Dog

Well-known member

Svirfneblin

Well-known member