Can we talk about token farming?

Tanis

Well-known member
You're addressing the wrong person here. I haven't stipulated a ratio of 2:1, that was another poster. The exchange rate would be up to SSG to determine.

I will make the point that epic levelling is already much faster than heroics. In my experience it's about twice as fast even when using xp potions in heroics and none in epics.

Lastly, this system would have to be workable for people getting first time bonuses and for people who aren't because they've exhausted them. Accumulating 40 million xp at cap without those bonuses is a substantial amount of work even if saga rewards are included.

Maybe it wouldn't be possible to make the idea work under both scenarios. Or maybe the additional xp from first time runs shouldn't be counted so there is parity in the amount of work required.
Figuring out that number would be really difficult

You could do a couple ETR‘s in a row without exhausting all your first time bonuses if you planned it out right on top of that you have all the slayer areas and you can do legendary content

So where would the where would the number come from? After all that was exhausted players would probably just do until it was exhausted then TR completely so they could reset the bonuses

I don’t think being able to stay at cap and get XP for TR should be a thing it completely defeats what a TR is TR is starting over

So now this is like staying at cap running all the raids at cap running content at full power farming items at cap

You know there is a thing for this. It’s in the store it’s called a Epic Otto’s box
 

SpartanKiller13

Why do I have 411 .ddocp files
WK EE+ is my favorite, for the record. You get like 2.5 tokens each, so a full party is like 15 tokens in like 10 minutes.

I'd also like more Token quests, but they'd likely have to raise Token prices if they added more (since they added artificial scarcity to drive sales, so to balance...) so I'm not sold on that.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
It's worth remembering the whole story. When the devs wanted to remove the ability to buy hearts with tokens of the 12 they introduced the CoV in a pathetic number. This post sums it up well

It takes about 10~30 epic quests to get enough tokens to earn a TR heart at the moment.

After the change, it will take about 50-60 complete sagas to earn one, or 750~1000 epic quests. You will also be unable to use the tokens you may have stocked up to buy the hearts any longer.

Another post:
Going from ~40 quest completions to ~50 saga completions to Heroic TR is bad. Pay status is not relevant.

Furthermore, even though they scrapped the idea due to player resistance, complaints continued because buying an epic/iconic heart was too expensive. And they had to increase the number of CoVs and add to all quests, and it still wasn't enough, so they had to increase the number again and create the seeds.

Remember that their proposal was for CoVs to be only a saga reward. Only after player protests did they add them as an end-of-quest reward, and in greater numbers. But players had good reason to complain.

If at that point where buying hearts with CoV was already a decent grind the devs had proposed the idea of tokens again, it would probably have had a positive reception. And if it had been an addition (keeping the utility of the tokens) it would definitely have been a positive reaction. Or at least keeping them useful for a while, to give people time to spend their tokens. Or set up a CoV-token exchange system. There were many ways to promote their idea without upsetting players!

But what did you expect? That a proposal to multiply the grind of getting a heart would be well received , and with the added bonus of losing the effort already made by making the stored tokens useless? Turbine, and now SSG, needs a bit more common sense and to develop their social skills! And some players need to exercise their memory a bit before blaming other players for something that has been mishandled by the devs.
 
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Anurakh

Little Nixie
And just in case there was any doubt, yes, I do think heroic hearts should be added to CoVs. The reason people complained in the first place was because they were proposing a hellish grind, but that was fixed shortly after.

The devs didn't add them then because they didn't want to, because at that point the proposal would have been well received. Invest in social skills, devs!
 

Tanis

Well-known member
It's exceedingly common to create a problem and sell the solution. Which is what they've done.

Yes, there's an alternative. Farm tokens. But if you aren't making 6 accounts, it sucks. I don't even hate the tokens themselves, but the fact it's only ancient content? That's by design.

If it was all quests in the 12, sure. Fine.
I agree with PP
 

PersonMan

Well-known member
It's worth remembering the whole story. When the devs wanted to remove the ability to buy hearts with tokens of the 12 they introduced the CoV in a pathetic number. This post sums it up well



Another post:


Remember that their proposal was for CoVs to be only a saga reward. Only after player protests did they add them as an end-of-quest reward, and in greater numbers. But players had good reason to complain.

Furthermore, even though they scrapped the idea due to player resistance, complaints continued because buying an epic/iconic heart was too expensive. And they had to increase the number of CoVs and add to all quests, and it still wasn't enough, so they had to increase the number again and create the seeds.

If at that point where buying hearts with CoV was already a decent grind the devs had proposed the idea of tokens again, it would probably have had a positive reception. And if it had been an addition (keeping the utility of the tokens) it would definitely have been a positive reaction. Or at least keeping them useful for a while, to give people time to spend their tokens. Or set up a CoV-token exchange system. There were many ways to promote their idea without upsetting players!

But what did you expect? That a proposal to multiply the grind of getting a heart would be well received , and with the added bonus of losing the effort already made by making the stored tokens useless? Turbine, and now SSG, needs a bit more common sense and to develop their social skills! And some players need to exercise their memory a bit before blaming other players for something that has been mishandled by the devs.
Yep, the original proposition for CoV was nothing like what we have today with CoV (and more importantly Heart Seeds) Also EE content was insanely difficult compared to what it is today.
 

Douglas Glyndwr

Bard Life
Because I'm not leveling through epics, genius. I'm hitting 20 and TRing.



And it takes 1500 tokens to get 3x completionist all lives that require token hearts. If I want that on 3 characters, that's 4500 tokens, or 155 runs of each quest.
Ok. This is a you problem. So they add tokens... to what? Sharn Legendary? All of them? Then you're going to run up through epics anyway. Maybe then this saves you a run every other life. Now to maximize this you have to farm heart seeds. Two times through Sharn Legendary. Now you're drowning in tokens but you're doing something you say you didn't want to do.

The tokens make TRing free. I think that Hearts of Wood are overpriced for how nessessary they are, but it also could be far, far worse.

It's obvious what you're asking for, but in the words of the American philosopher circle En Vogue, "Ain't never gonna get it."
 

woq

Well-known member
I wonder if they might ever introduce a form of Legendary TR that lets you get multiple lives done in one go from something that you farm in endgame to combine an endgame chase grind with a catchup mechanism - considering that heroic TR is such an integral part about the gameplay loop of DDO and the timeframe to get items for it is so narrow (20-22 out of 1-34 now and 34+ in the future).

I must be high to think they'd ever consider such a thing on re-read, but putting it out there anyway.
 

PersonMan

Well-known member
I wonder if they might ever introduce a form of Legendary TR that lets you get multiple bonuses from something that you farm in endgame to combine an endgame chase grind with a catchup mechanism - considering that heroic TR is such an integral part about the gameplay loop of DDO and the timeframe to get items for it is so narrow (20-22 out of 1-34 now and 34+ in the future).

I must be high to think they'd ever consider such a thing on re-read, but putting it out there anyway.
I would not be at all surprised if Legendary TRs ended up using Threads of Fate, assuming they didn't want to bother with yet still another ingredient.
 

woq

Well-known member
I would not be at all surprised if Legendary TRs ended up using Threads of Fate, assuming they didn't want to bother with yet still another ingredient.
I honestly would not mind to see legendary levels implement something inbetween quests and raids as a new way to get threads or thread-like things.

Longer / more challenging quests that don't quite require as much as raids do. Actually legendary quests!
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
I would not be at all surprised if Legendary TRs ended up using Threads of Fate, assuming they didn't want to bother with yet still another ingredient.
It can't be. Many people who do reincarnations don't raid.

I know they'll end up creating legendary TRs because their idea of expanding the game is to create endless grinds, but aren't hundreds of TRs enough already? Aren't alts and new players penalized enough already?
 

Enoach

Well-known member
I for one am not against coming up with a better system, but I will also admit that 20 tokens is not a lot.

What I've done to help me with this works for me because I play multiple characters all at different levels - this was a mindset I developed back in in the early days as it allowed me to have a broader choice when it came to running with parties.

The advantage this gives me is that ERs allow me to run quests to earn tokens that help me stockpile for my characters running TRs and RRs.

It works for me, it also lets me farm tokens when the need arises, or even help others farm tokens to lower their monoteny and increase their fun.
 

woq

Well-known member
Let me see if I understand your logic, here:

Players pushed back on a bad system.

And it got improved.

Soooo..... we should never, ever push back on any other bad system because... reasons?
How on earth did you come to this conclusion from those posts if you went back to the quoted posts?

Original poster: Recommendation A?

Other poster: Devs tried A, but players didn't like it!!

Anurakh: Ok, but that's not the whole story. Recommendation A might've worked, but devs were going to make it insane, so players understandably pushed back and devs went back to it and scrapped A, but made B better. If devs tried to go about A a bit better and were reasonable, things would not be so problematic.

You: so never push back because reasons??

huh?
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Let me see if I understand your logic, here:

Players pushed back on a bad system.

And it got improved.

Soooo..... we should never, ever push back on any other bad system because... reasons?
Didn't you see that I support the idea of adding hearts to CoV rewards? Did you read the post I put up immediately after of that? With my historical revision I was responding to certain posters here who said that the devs didn't add tokens to more quests because players refused to have them removed.

And no, that's historical revisionism. Players reacted VERY negatively because the initial proposal was incredibly bad. Players can't be blamed for the current token situation. In fact, everyone should be very grateful to all the players who protested back then, as the proposal would have meant multiplying the effort of buying a heart by orders of magnitude.

But yeah, I never understood why once the devs got a reasonable grind with CoV why they didn't repeat the proposal (and in fact ignored some players who asked about it). I support introducing tokens into all Eberron quests, or introducing them into CoV. Or both. With the amount of grind there is in this game and the amount of money the reincarnation system generates, putting obstacles in the way of TR is absurd.
 

FaustianBargain

Well-known member
I would not be at all surprised if Legendary TRs ended up using Threads of Fate, assuming they didn't want to bother with yet still another ingredient.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is, ‘never get involved in a land war in Asia,’ but only slightly less well-known is this: ‘Never bet against an SSG Developer creating a new ingredient.’
 

IanMoon8

Well-known member
It is not the question about how you get tokens the easiest. Ian is practically asking for something new and fun to get them. Why is this a point of debate? You don't want fun in the game?
I know, right? So many times people forget this game is supposed to be about fun.

WK EE+ is my favorite, for the record. You get like 2.5 tokens each, so a full party is like 15 tokens in like 10 minutes.

Did that one a few dozen times while farming ADQ for fun epic and legendary gear. Its slightly less soul-crushing and feels like it takes roughly the same amount of time as von3. Running on 6 accounts nets a lot of tokens and nice loot.

Name a quest that drops tokens and you can bet I've run it 100+ times. Except the House C challenges because that is garbage content.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Put up with a lot stuff with this game but will never be buying heroic hearts of wood for TRs in the store. And would not continue the game if i could not TR. And I have other stuff I could do. Would be fine for me. Probably deathknell for the game though. Why folks all, "better be careful, you lucky to even have tokens"? Get real.
They say that because the threat of token removal was once very real. For a moment, the developers thought that really was a good idea.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Geez,
the thing OP pointed out was: there are no new quests added for tokens since pre-MotU. That is a fact.
And he gets advice for his play style and effectiveness to overcome an obstacle. So even the people that give advice don't like that fact, right?! You would appreciate a new quest line with tokens or a different way to get your hands on tokens, no?!

It is not the question about how you get tokens the easiest. Ian is practically asking for something new and fun to get them. Why is this a point of debate? You don't want fun in the game?

@IanMoon8 you seem to have a lot of patience in this thread. Kudos to you.

Cheers,
Titus
Something about internet message boards makes people like arguing. Even good suggestions get picked apart. As with many suggestions on this board, there is no harm in doing as he asks (i.e. adding tokens to more quests). Having all quests that give favor for The Twelve also give tokens would even be thematically appropriate.
 
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