Caster FvS vs Cleric?

[Khurse]

Hi All

Trying to decide on a (more or less) "permanent" caster build. (Mostly solo as obviously I play online to ignore people)

Recently did a Cold Druid (awesome) and a Cold/Air sorc (also pretty fun)

Decided I should try a FvS or Cleric .
(I am assuming both will be far less effective for solo play than a Druid or Sorc, but...)

Consensus seems to be that for offensive caster, FvS is the way to go , but looking at the trees, not sure why? (I could be wrong, didn't check the date of the posts I was looking at)

Spellpower favors cleric, (by a hair) -
Cleric (DD) 40ish from Domain + 30 Light + 30 USP (Core 5)
FvS 41(ish) USP +20 Light (Core5) +20 USP (Core 6)

DC's Favor cleric (better evo or necro) but FVS has the others
Cleric (DD) (with domain) 6 Evo +1 Necro (or 5 Necro 2 Evo with Death Domain )
FvS 3 everything +1 Evo

MCL
Cleric 2 MCL With Light/alignment (Possible 2 With Fire/Force depending on enhancements)
FVS 3 MCL with Light/Fire/Force

And obviously FvS will have a lot more spell points.

So it looks like, spellpower is pretty much a wash, so FvS gains one MCL with Fire/Force/Light spells in return for 2 less Evocation DC than an evo spec DD cleric.

Just curious if FvS offer anything that I'm missing as an offensive caster over cleric , as I *think* I'd rather have the 2 Evocation DC ..
(FVS obviously also has leap, but I can get that in ED)

Thanks!

 

[Ungermax]

Spellpower favors cleric, (by a hair) -
Cleric (DD) 40ish from Domain + 30 Light + 30 USP (Core 5)
FvS 41(ish) USP +20 Light (Core5) +20 USP (Core 6)

Does this mean if I put more points into cleric (DD) I will stop going bald?

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Does this mean if I put more points into cleric (DD) I will stop going bald?

Yes. And those wee blue pills will help you too. ??

 

[Khurse]

Does this mean if I put more points into cleric (DD) I will stop going bald?

It's only "a" hair. Doesn't have to be on your head...

 

[Hobgoblin]

are you looking at mcl?

i think fvs used to win there

fvs gets hp bonus and sp bonus

 

[Khurse]

are you looking at mcl?

i think fvs used to win there

fvs gets hp bonus and sp bonus

Kinda looking at everything.

I was under the impression that everyone said FvS were superior as offensive casters to clerics, but I can't figure out why.
FvS get one MCL and 2-3 DC for some schools, but are down 2 DC to cleric in any Evocation Domain.

Could have been the opinions I read were old ones, didn't check the dates.

 

[rabidfox]

The big factors in the past was FvS had a bunch more caster levels that got nerf'd. And some of the epic destiny stuff didn't have MCL:20 before u66. FvS likely has the edge just off crit based off what spell types are effected (where cleric has to lean one way or the other) and the extra 1 CL/MCL. But the gap between the two has closed by quite a bit compared to the past.

 

[DBZ]

Double the blue bar matters when everything is extremely nerfed and no epic strikes to take up the slack

And with upcoming wild magic every heal could be your last fun times

 

[Coffey]

Dragonborn can help with one element: Draconic Knowledge: +1 Caster Level and +2 Max Caster Level with the element spell associated with selected Draconic Ancestry. Tier 4 has +3 evocation DCs. They can Start with 20 CHA (and +2 CHA in cores) or 18 WIS.

 

[Br4d]

FvS is medium armor and Cleric is heavy. I've always found FvS moving a bit easier although other than the armor check penalties nothing should cause that. I've found the same on my melees. I can really tell the difference between a melee in a robe and a melee in heavy armor.

 

[Quartis]

Cleric feels better to level Because it gets with 4. enhancment row a spell like for a good aoe skill. Therefore as soon you get lvl 4 you can smite all enemies with big aoe spells. And you get 2 single target nukes sunbeam, word of balance. And later sun burst. Only need Light power because the light & align spells are enough to beat down your enemies.

FvS has far more HP or Spell points depends on your choice on lvl 7. But aoe spells first start at lvl 8 over spellbook and higher aoe dmg spells are all only fire. only get with lvl 3 that light bolt like lightning bolt. highest row gives komet but now you need force, light and fire power, because you dont have enough light align spell :(

but sounds like you wanted to know more about meta endgame which I have no idea about.

 

[Coffey]

FVS Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2.

 

[Randomdude1223]

I’m going to provide a brief comparison between favored soul (FvS) and cleric at endgame. While clerics excel during the leveling process, let’s delve into their differences when it comes to insta-kill builds first.

Cleric:

• For an insta-kill cleric, the death domain is a solid choice. It grants +4 DCs from the domain and an additional +2 DC from the Divine Disciple (DD) tree for your necromancy spells.
• You also gain the destruction spell-like ability (SLA) from your domain, which means you have two destruction insta-kill spells. Add slay living to the mix, and you’ve got three necromancy insta-kill options. Don’t forget about implosion, although it uses evocation DC instead of necromancy DC. If you opt for the dark apostate enhancement tree, you’ll receive an extra +2 Wisdom and Constitution from the shroud, resulting +1 DC.
• Consider the shifter race: Starting with 18 Wisdom, a passive +1 bonus from wildhunt shifter, and +4 from rage (which you’ll be running all the time), you’ll have a base wisdom of 23. In contrast, charisma-based races typically start with only 20 charisma. In my opinion, cleric remains the better choice for insta-kill endgame.
• Additionally, clerics have access to sunburst (although it’s an SLA with longer cooldowns than regular spells), which can be effective for insta-killing certain mobs.

Favored Soul (FvS):

• At endgame, FvS DCs provide +3 to all DCs and +1 to evocation (evo) DCs. While you miss out on the extra destruction SLA and have fewer DCs overall, there’s an interesting twist.
• FvS can be charisma-based, which has its advantages. Charisma filigrees are better—you can equip four +2 charisma raid filigrees compared to only two +2 wisdom rare filigrees. This effectively gives you +2 DCs on your FvS, resulting in a total of +5 to all DCs and +6 to evocation.(additionally as @Coffey mentioned aura of menace is -2 saves to monster around you so that's technically +2 dcs but becareful it might draw unwanted agro in a lot of situations so use it wisely)

---

Now, let’s move on to the DPS-based endgame nuker comparison:

FvS Spellpower:

• With Font of Power (core 1), you gain 1 spellpower for each point spent in the tree. At cap, that’s 41 spellpower. Add another 20 from the capstone (plus +2 spellpower from the +2 to all skills), and then factor in +30 from Scourge (which stacks quickly). Additionally, you get +20 alignment and light spell power from Vengeful Magic. In total, that’s 93 universal spellpower and 113 light spellpower from just the Angel of Vengeance (AoV) tree. FvS also receives a situational +30 spellpower boost.
• Cleric Spellpower:
  • If you choose the magic domain, you’ll gain 40 spellpower from the domain. From DD cores, clerics receive +25 universal spellpower and +50 light/alignment spellpower. Add another 10 from the capstone. The total varies based on the specific domain, but for a nuker cleric, magic domain is a solid choice.
  • Clerics also benefit from bonus spell points equal to their character level multiplied by 10. Additionally, turn undead provides a temporary +40 spellpower boost for 20 seconds, and the charges generally have short cooldowns (if you go magic domain).
• Critical Chances:
  • Favored Soul (FvS): FvS has a clear advantage here. They receive a flat +8% critical chance to fire, force, and light/alignment spells. No need to choose; they get it all!
  • Cleric: Clerics, on the other hand, have to make a choice. They can either get +10% critical chance to light/alignment spells or +10% to fire, cold, acid, electric, and force spells. So, FvS wins this round with their versatile +8% across the board.
  • Cleric also gets one of two options +5% Spell Critical Damage with Fire, Cold, Acid, Electric, and Force Spells or + 5% Spell Critical Damage with Light, Negative, and Alignment Spells.
• Caster Levels and Max Caster Levels:
  • Favored Soul (FvS): FvS takes the lead again. They gain +3 caster levels and max caster levels specifically for light, force, and fire spells. This boost enhances the effectiveness of their damaging spells.
  • Cleric: Clerics, unfortunately, only receive +2 to either light or elemental spells (or both with some compromise). While they can cover both types, the FvS still edges out with their +3 bonus to the key spell types.
  • Note: It’s worth mentioning that celestial bombardment and divine wrath do not have a maximum caster level.

Immunity Bypass:

• Both classes rely heavily on fire-based spells, which can be problematic against fire-immune enemies.
• For a dps cleric or FvS, the Tiefling race is a solid solution. Tieflings gain +35 fire spellpower from cores, improved scorch (a very short fire immunity breaker), and +5% spell critical damage with fire spells.
• However, there’s a trade-off: Tieflings are charisma-based, which aligns better with fvs.

Endgame Comparison:

• Favored Soul (FvS):
  • FvS excels in several areas:
    • Critical Chances: They receive a flat +8% critical chance to fire, force, and light/alignment spells.
    • Caster Levels and Max Caster Levels: FvS gains +3 specifically for light, force, and fire spells.
    • Versatility: Their charisma-based nature allows them to benefit from better filigrees and synergize well with Tiefling.
• Cleric:
  • While clerics can choose between +10% critical chance for light/alignment spells or +10% for fire, cold, acid, electric, and force spells, they face limitations.
  • Their +2 caster levels and max caster levels (for either light or elemental spells) fall short compared to FvS.
  • Clerics can still be effective, especially if they focus on fire spells, but FvS edges out overall.

In summary, considering immunity bypass, versatility, and overall performance, FvS appears to be the better choice for endgame spellcasting.
This is solely my opinion, drawn from my experience playing both classes. Please consider revisiting these numbers as needed, although I’ve done my best to be accurate.
Special thanks to @Coffey for helping out!

 

[Khurse]

Thanks all! (especially @Randomdude1223 ) a lot of good stuff here.

Follow up, anyone have any idea which Fire/Light spells are worth casting in reapers at endgame?

 

[Randomdude1223]

Thanks all! (especially @Randomdude1223 ) a lot of good stuff here.

Follow up, anyone have any idea which Fire/Light spells are worth casting in reapers at endgame?

Your most potent damaging spells include celestial bombardment, divine wrath, and firestorm. However, targeting enemies with these spells can be challenging, consider crowd-controlling (CC) them first. Use spells like soundburst (evocation/fortitude saves), greater colorspray (illusion/will saves), and greater command (enchantment/will saves). Additionally, if you take the epic feat Burst of Glacial Wrath, you’ll have a powerful crowd control option that works on undead & constructs and is evocation-based(if you use it make sure to disable any damage metamagics like empower and maxmize to not waste any sp).
I forgot to add that flamestrike is nice and should probably be in your rotation too. Does both fire and bane damage the bane damage scales of force spellpower/lore? not sure.

 

[Hakoist]

I am doing a fvs tieflang caster life right now. Going to play cleric caster next.

I guess one advantage of cleric would be DD negative cure spell series
Where fvs doesn’t really do.

I hope it is like comparing wiz and sorc. Cleric lose in the power but win a bit in the versatility

 

[Randomdude1223]

I am doing a fvs tieflang caster life right now. Going to play cleric caster next.

I guess one advantage of cleric would be DD negative cure spell series
Where fvs doesn’t really do.

I hope it is like comparing wiz and sorc. Cleric lose in the power but win a bit in the versatility

True but those negative spells are very lacking when it comes to damage

 

[Khurse]

Your most potent damaging spells include celestial bombardment, divine wrath, and firestorm. However, targeting enemies with these spells can be challenging, consider crowd-controlling (CC) them first. Use spells like soundburst (evocation/fortitude saves), greater colorspray (illusion/will saves), and greater command (enchantment/will saves). Additionally, if you take the epic feat Burst of Glacial Wrath, you’ll have a powerful crowd control option that works on undead & constructs and is evocation-based(if you use it make sure to disable any damage metamagics like empower and maxmize to not waste any sp).
I forgot to add that flamestrike is nice and should probably be in your rotation too. Does both fire and bane damage the bane damage scales of force spellpower/lore? not sure.

Perfect, thanks!

 

[Khurse]

OK one more question..
Reading in @Unsinful Evoker build (also with a lot of useful info) that people are saying they have around 114-116 buffed Charisma..
I'm not sure what I'm missing
20 Starting
08 Tome
08 Level Up
03 Racial PL
02 Racial Completionist
02 Class Completionist
02 Racial Enhancement
06 Class Enhancement (I don't think you can realistically fit more than six in)
04 Capstone
05 Reaper
15 Item
06 Insightful
03 Quality
03 Artifact
03 Profane (if you can fit the vecna set in, otherwise 2)
02 Festive
02 Primal Avatar
=94
Call it 10 for filigree (which I think is pushing it, but maybe people use more than 6 filigree spots for stats? )
=104
2 Pots (don't remember what they're called, but I know they stack) for 2 more each
=108

So can't figure out the other 6-8 .
Aasimar could theoretically get an additional 2 with divine purpose, ( 3 from DP +1 from Boon of the Protector, but -2 from starting) but only for one minute, so..

Just curious if anyone knows anything else I'm missing. (This is more theorycrafting, while I have the PL's I don't raid so raid filigree are not happening anytime soon, so my max will likely be around 100-104 )

 

[DBZ]

Sacred and not wai 1 epic focus conj with 3 spell specialty evoc