Caster Level and Max Caster Level

[Incompetent]

So everytime i try to fully grasp this concept, something in my brain starts to turn off, and while I think I understand it, it always seems to slip by, and once again I am standing there like a dog looking at the TV, Lots of pretty things but no idea what it means.


1) What is the difference between Caster level and Max Caster levels?

2)If i am say a level 20 Bard (Stormsinger) 32 Epic, is my Caster level 20, + +2 From Enhancement Cores +Epic Knowledge X5 + Legendary Knowledge = 28

So if I am using the spell Lightning bolt, which has a max casting level 10 but I can increase that with master of Air.

3) What is my casting level now with Lightning bolt? is is 20 or 28?
4) if the answer is 20, what does raising the Max Casting level of a spell do for me, I guess if it the answer to 3 was 28, then I have the answer to 4.

Sorry if I'm not explaining it right, or asking it right, i just can't seem to wrap my mind around this.

 

[The Blonde]

Ignore this post, I forgot Epic/Leg Knowledge grants MCLs on top of CLs.

 

[rabidfox]

CL is the greatest potential level you can cast at but it can't exceed a spells max caster level.

So let's break down lightning bolt:
It starts at MCL:10
Stormsinger core 5 & core 6 give +1 Caster Level and Max Caster Level with Sonic and Electric spells. So that's +2 MCL to MCL 12.
You take master of air and it gains +10 MCL for MCL:22.
Epic and legendary levels give +1 CL and +1 MCL every other level (https://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Knowledge) so that's +6 more MCL for MCL:28.

 

[Incompetent]

So why don't epic knowledge and Legendary knowledge work for lightning bolt? If its MCL is 10, with Master of air bumping it to 20, what is the purpose of those feats?

Sorry, was replying to the 1st message.

So when I cast lightning bolt, it should be casting at level 28, but I can wear an Arcane Augmentation item, that would make it cast at 31. So am i really casting at 31?

 

[Incompetent]

Oh, and can I trust the Combat log when I cast my spell, and it says That I begin to cast Lightning bolt at Level 31

 

[rabidfox]

So why don't epic knowledge and Legendary knowledge work for lightning bolt? If its MCL is 10, with Master of air bumping it to 20, what is the purpose of those feats?

Sorry, was replying to the 1st message.

So when I cast lightning bolt, it should be casting at level 28, but I can wear an Arcane Augmentation item, that would make it cast at 31. So am i really casting at 31?

No, you'd still be hard locked by the MCL of 28. The combat log will display CL it's trying to cast at, but it's hard capped by MCL. So you'd see 31 in the combat log and it would be cast at 28.

 

[rabidfox]

It's a bit confusing because where MCL is used by the code is further down the rabbit hole than CL & combat log info. We've asked the devs before if it's possible to show MCL on stuff because it's confusing, but it's just not something easy to impletement with way the code works. So pretty much have to figure out MCL by hand on anything and everything.

 

[Incompetent]

No, you'd still be hard locked by the MCL of 28. The combat log will display CL it's trying to cast at, but it's hard capped by MCL. So you'd see 31 in the combat log and it would be cast at 28.

So is there any reason for a Bard to use Arcane Augmentation then?

 

[rabidfox]

Some stuff in the game doesn't have MCLs (or has very high MCL that might not hit). You can see some stuff exceeds lvl 20 on this https://ddowiki.com/page/Maximum_caster_level and there's stuff in EDs without limits that will benefit from more CLs.

 

[Incompetent]

Some stuff in the game doesn't have MCLs (or has very high MCL that might not hit). You can see some stuff exceeds lvl 20 on this https://ddowiki.com/page/Maximum_caster_level and there's stuff in EDs without limits that will benefit from more CLs.

Thanks for the info.

 

[rabidfox]

This is why is I hate MCLs and wish SSG would get rid of them; it's needlessly complicated and requires per spell pocketmath to figure out. But I also think getting rid of MCL would be balancing nightmare and would require so much dev time to deal with the aftermass that it would never happen.

 

[Incompetent]

So what about Ruin and Greater Ruin, do they have a Cl and MCL or are they effected by them?

 

[droid327]

So what about Ruin and Greater Ruin, do they have a Cl and MCL or are they effected by them?

Most Epic spell-type abilities dont have MCLs because you dont get them till Epic anyway

In general, you can assume if a spell doesnt list an MCL or have one mentioned in the wiki, its uncapped. Except the ones that arent Welcome to DDO

 

[YeeboF]

Some stuff in the game doesn't have MCLs (or has very high MCL that might not hit). You can see some stuff exceeds lvl 20 on this https://ddowiki.com/page/Maximum_caster_level and there's stuff in EDs without limits that will benefit from more CLs.

Wow, I have never looked at that wiki page because I find nukers in this game really annoying to play. Now I know another reason why I dislike them, behind the scenes they are just complete chaos.

 

[Ying]

So what about Ruin and Greater Ruin, do they have a Cl and MCL or are they effected by them?

Ruin and Greater Ruin inflict flat damage. They don't scale based on your caster level.

 

[Aelastiar]

Max barbarizing spell damage it up to the dungeon master quick buck moods. The old spells designed by Hasbro are too big dumpy don't even match HD upgrades or any purchased environment like displacement are like pampers with smearing blob spinning around your player like a micro soft windows 98 draw program. I would not bring this up if the developer does not bother to change stuff like constant nerf arrow speed or the cut back on great axe going crazy in the old days when this game was cool and cool on conserve computer environmental common as R134A coolant.

Is this what being under the influence of the plane of xoriat looks like?

 

[LurkingVeteran]

So is there any reason for a Bard to use Arcane Augmentation then?

The following spells typically end up with higher MCL than CL for a Bard (and would therefore benefit):
- Greater Shout
- or Shout (w/ Master of... )
- Half-Elf Lightning Storm
- Iirc Stormsinger Dragonborn might be one CL behind on all lightning spells

Not sure if they capped all ED SLAs or if some slipped through. Most should be MCL 20 these days. Also not sure about Horn of Thunder.

 

[Vox]

The following spells typically end up with higher MCL than CL for a Bard (and would therefore benefit):
- Greater Shout
- or Shout (w/ Master of... )
- Half-Elf Lightning Storm
- Iirc Stormsinger Dragonborn might be one CL behind on all lightning spells

Not sure if they capped all ED SLAs or if some slipped through. Most should be MCL 20 these days. Also not sure about Horn of Thunder.

SSG thinking about nerfing casters even more