Class Enhancements/Action Points - Dual or Multi-Class Requirements Restrictions?

VirginiaCreeper

VirginiaCreeper

Well-known member
Hello. Noob question here that I'll use my character for as an example, but is a question with any dual or multi-class character build.

I'm an Arcane Archer Wood Elf - Ranger/Rogue 14/4 (18). I've discussed leveling in another thread HERE that cleared up concerns on how action points are gained and spent and how leveling works in DDO.

However there is another concern:

Let's say I reach level 20 (16/4 Ranger/Rogue). In my Enhancements tree I have x2 Core Enhancements to go:
Shadow Arrows (Ranger Level 18)
Mystical Archer (Ranger Level 20)

I believe I was told that I stop getting Action Points at level 20. Is that correct? If so, that is baked into this question.

Once I reach level 20, I still will not be a level 20 Ranger. However, I know there are levels beyond 20 or "Heroic".
What I don't know is whether or not the leveling is still the same and I can choose to keep leveling as a ranger or continue to develop my dual/multi-class character from there.

So after Level 20 - Will I still eventually reach Ranger level 20 as a dual-class Ranger/Rogue? or will my Ranger/Rogue levels be maxed out at 16/4?
If I save action points, can I get those last two core enhancements after? Or did I undermine my character build by going dual-class?

Thanks!
 
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Thumbed_Servant

Well-known member
As rabidfox said, plus: All your levels from 21-30 will be Epic Levels. No classes, nothing to choose except for the expenditure of Epic Destiny Points. Use the link in rabidfox's post above to read about Epic Destinies, and the following link for Epic Levels.
 
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Thumbed_Servant

Well-known member
"Well that sucks. Thanks though!"

Your toon will gain much more power with the Epic Destinies than would have been gained by another four levels of Ranger.
 
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Thumbed_Servant

Well-known member
I would suggest going to the Fate Spinner once you level to 20, using her dialog options to get into the Junction of the Spheres , talk to everyone in each sphere to pick up the starting Destiny Points and then playing with them in the Epic Destinies. Once you've looked around in the Destinies and spent your points you will have an idea more of what is available in them. You could then reincarnate back to level 1 and start over or level up to 30. At 30 you have more options: Legendary Levels or Epic Reincarnation back to 20 (from which you have your original options of leveling to 30 again or reincarnating to 1 (or to 15 if reincarnating to an Iconic)). But at least get the first Destiny Points from within the Junction of the Spheres and play around in the Epic Destiny trees. :)
 
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VirginiaCreeper

VirginiaCreeper

Well-known member
Thumbed_Servant said:
I would suggest going to the Fate Spinner once you level to 20, using her dialog options to get into the Junction of the Spheres , talk to everyone in each sphere to pick up the starting Destiny Points and then playing with them in the Epic Destinies. Once you've looked around in the Destinies and spent your points you will have an idea more of what is available in them. You could then reincarnate back to level 1 and start over or level up to 30. At 30 you have more options: Legendary Levels or Epic Reincarnation back to 20 (from which you have your original options of leveling to 30 again or reincarnating to 1 (or to 15 if reincarnating to an Iconic)). But at least get the first Destiny Points from within the Junction of the Spheres and play around in the Epic Destiny trees. :)
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Thank you! :)
 
VirginiaCreeper

VirginiaCreeper

Well-known member
Well, thanks everyone. I guess this gives me something else to consider and experiment with when I reach level 20 and when making another character. Super helpful :)
 
Silverhilt

Silverhilt

Well-known member
since you are wood elf, you can unlock the Arcane Archer tree in the racial tree. That allows you to get full tree as a multiclass

AA tree is the only one of this kind and only for elven races, make sure you unspend the points in AA:Ranger tree and instead select AA:Elf tree
 
Anurakh

Anurakh

Little Nixie
VirginiaCreeper said:
Seeing the responses above, the follow-up question @Thumbed_Servant and @rabidfox : Is there a way around this? Possibly through reincarnation via a Lesser Heart of Wood or something similar?
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Don't waste a heart on this. Play a bit at epic levels, experiment with epic destinies. If you decide you don't like your build, don't create another character, but reincarnate your current one and start over, but more powerful than before (you'll have more ability points and an extra past life feat). Almost every player's first character suffered the consequences of our inexperience and needed to reincarnate.

Multiclassing halts your class progression to add another. Done well, multiclassing can provide more power than remaining single-class in some builds. For other builds, it's more powerful not to multiclass. You have to know what you're doing when multiclassing, and whether the new class's benefits outweigh the loss of your first class's final abilities. I generally recommend against multiclassing for new players, as they don't have the experience to know whether it's worth it or not.

Also check out builds on the forum before reincarnate. They will help you build a viable character. Or ask for help.
 
Redtalktree

Redtalktree

Well-known member
Silverhilt said:
since you are wood elf, you can unlock the Arcane Archer tree in the racial tree. That allows you to get full tree as a multiclass

AA tree is the only one of this kind and only for elven races, make sure you unspend the points in AA:Ranger tree and instead select AA:Elf tree
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This. The only way to get lvl20 as a elf AA with multiclassing, with the horizon walker enhancement tree as secondary its viable for the dex trance and you be golden. no need to reroll or trash the toon, just go epic and then eTR+TR and Elf AA is now viable ranged toon, just don't expect INQ or Shurricannon damage, but viable. the only problem is you will run out of AP points as you have to put 14 points minimum into racial (unless you completed racials TR), 41 points in elf AA, minimum of 10+3 in Horizon Walker for battle trance, this does not leave you with much AP points for the rogue tree or anything else that matters.
they revamp the xp for 1-3lifers @1.9m xp easy peasy lemon sqeeezy you can TR or go EPIC, your choice.
You are really lucky in one sense you went muliclass as an elf.
 
droid327

droid327

Hardcore casual soloist
Yeah the whole point of multi classing is you give up the top end bonuses for staying pure class (L18 L20 cores, top level spells, max caster level, etc) but gain abilities and enhancements from a second class instead. Getting more than you give up, for the style of play you want to play, is the key to building a good multiclass build.

If you could eventually get everything anyway even if you split your levels, there wouldn't be much point to NOT multi classing
 
H

Hakoist

Well-known member
Anurakh said:
Almost every player's first character suffered the consequences of our inexperience and needed to reincarnate.
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My first character was a AA ranger 1x years ago. It is poor, TR to a 12ftr/6rgr/2rog. It is still poor.
Archer is poor for the whole time :D
 
Sturmbb

Sturmbb

Well-known member
The Problem is that some classes have absolutely great capstones and its worth staying pure to access them, unfortunately their are also classes that have absolutely dreadful capstones, heck even the Core 5 (level 18) ability are quite bad and not worth the Action point cost. Heck id even go far as to say. If the game offered them FOC i would turn them down.

What they need to do is go through the enhancement trees that have really bad capstones and core 5 enhancements and buff them by an extreme amount. On some classes i play. It's an absolute non brainer to multiclass. This should never be the case. When deciding to multiclass you should be giving up something powerful.

I think instead of concentrating on nerfing tree's/classes, they should be looking at buffing the weaker trees/classes. The game has gotten much harder and new players really do struggle unless they are playing meta builds. Elite seems now to be scaled to players with past lives rather than first lifers. When nerfs come along the people it affects the most is casual players. Experienced players just move on to the next meta build.

They really need to change this. As i believe its driving new players away. Games must attract new players. Otherwise they end up stagnating.

One example is Herioc Saltmarsh, I always recommend everyone skipping heroic saltmarsh as it is perhaps the most difficult expansion of the game for its level. I can run Level 9 quests that don't hit me for as much damage as the mobs in saltmarsh do.
 
Bjond

Bjond

Well-known member
Sturmbb said:
It's an absolute non brainer to multiclass. This should never be the case. When deciding to multiclass you should be giving up something powerful
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To quote one of my favorite authors, "Specialization is for insects."

I'm curious about the insistence that pure should be powerful. Why? Is this statement born of reason or emotion? What good results happen from more pure characters? What bad results happen from hybrid?
 
Anurakh

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Bjond said:
To quote one of my favorite authors, "Specialization is for insects."

I'm curious about the insistence that pure should be powerful. Why? Is this statement born of reason or emotion? What good results happen from more pure characters? What bad results happen from hybrid?
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There needs to be a balance between the potency of capstones and multiclassing. There's nothing wrong with multiclass characters, and they should be viable because they enrich the game, but it's absurd to say that pure-class characters should be weaker than multiclasses. Both should be equally powerful in different ways.
 
Sturmbb

Sturmbb

Well-known member
Bjond said:
To quote one of my favorite authors, "Specialization is for insects."

I'm curious about the insistence that pure should be powerful. Why? Is this statement born of reason or emotion? What good results happen from more pure characters? What bad results happen from hybrid?
Click to expand...

I just feel there should be equal representation between all the classes. an example

I have read many posts agree that going pure Barbarian is feasible due to the extremely strong captstones and if your going to splash it should really only be for trapping skills (these are not my words, as ive never played a pure barbarian).

Other classes are encouraged to multiclass due to how bad the capstones are and how there is not really any benefit to taking 20 levels of that class.

So, you should either nerf the barbarian capstones so multiclassing is a none brainer or you buff the other classes capstones.

It doesnt seem fair that capstones are either hit or miss. They should all bring something to the table when deciding to go pure or multiclass.

Alot of new players are encouraged not to multiclass as you can really mess up your character if you just take classes randomly. Surely by buffing the capstones it will make the new player experience more viable?

In this game due to the difficulty, i always believe in buffing tree's and classes. If your going to start nerfing tree's and classes than you need to reduce the difficulty of the game. Especially in Elite (I would argue that after you have a few reaper points under your belt. R1 is about the same as Elite). I find the champions can be more dangerous than the actual reapers (depending on the monster and type of champion).

Can you explain your reasoning in not wanting to buff the capstones. I can only see it helping the playerbase.
 
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