Cleric or Paladin?

[Archest]

That's my point
"It's pretty low effort to have a positive spellpower item and a couple of healing spells. "
Its not the build I made, sure there were Heal scrolls and Resurrection scrolls but they take time to equip and use.
Listening to people complain you didn't raise the dead fast enough as a FvS or Cleric is the point.
Means they are too careless and die too often or have no patience or they just dont approve of your build of a non-heal bot cleric or FvS.
Please mr Dragon i need to equip and raise the other player leave me alone for two turns while i do that ....

 

[Elves United]

I've played both melee DPS cleric and melee DPS paladin a ton, so here's my thoughts -

Paladin is much better for solo'ing. It has better melee DPS than cleric, solid self heals and amazing self only buffs. KotC is a way better DPS tree than Warpriest. It you are solo'ing absolutely go Pally. Pally is just better in most situations because it brings better DPS and has plenty of self heals and way better survivability since it has sacred defender access and divine grace. Most people will be much better off going Pally.

There's little point in going pure cleric if also going DPS melee. You've pretty much given up on DC casting and are focused on buffs and heals. There isn't much in the spell list for you beyond 7th level spells. War domain works for meshes with a tactical class. Destruction domain meshes well for a rage class. Maybe a pure cleric vistani build.

 

[Fizban]

So, having gotten over my feel bad about not playing main I am thinking up a few other chars to try. I want to make a cleric who is just basically a fighter, but has her cleric spells as back up. I will not probably have cure X wounds ever used as I will just have her buffs and removes. For example when fighting beholders she can cure the level drain when a beholder dispells all your stuff. Remove poison for things. Killing speed is not TO much of a concern.

I have seen war priest is a trap and cleric should not use it. Is this true?

Now a paladin could be this type of dps, but a paladin does not get all the removeal things does it? Or things like death ward? I just don't know which one to pick given what I want to try.

Paladin yes, a paladin does get all of the restore things. In fact, his/her remove desease gets bumped to also include greater restoration at some point. Paladin's also get most of the remove spells directly as well to include up to heal serious wounds.

A paladin is a better choice for a cleric like character that can also melee very well.

 

[axel15810]

There's little point in going pure cleric if also going DPS melee. You've pretty much given up on DC casting and are focused on buffs and heals. There isn't much in the spell list for you beyond 7th level spells. War domain works for meshes with a tactical class. Destruction domain meshes well for a rage class. Maybe a pure cleric vistani build.

If WIS based and playing in parties, it's not bad for the RS capstone. +4 WIS is nice, and max healing every 5th spell is nice. Especially if you're raiding a lot and are also often the primary healer. Which is what I used to do on the build...beat on bosses with aura on and spam cures/burst when needed. 18/1/1 is better DPS since you can use arcane warrior from 1 warlock and more to hit with the 1 FVS for a WIS class trance instead of the falconry universal. I like pure both for flavor and for a more healery focus toon for raids just depends really on how much you want to tilt into the healery side of things. Spell list doesn't matter either way you have plenty of spell slots - pure would be for the RS capstone, if you go that route. That said, I do think the RS capstone should be better.

 

[Enoach]

I play both Paladin and Cleric

Paladin has access to just about every divine spell needed to keep you on your feet and has some additional bells and whistles like lay on hands and remove disease. It works well S&B, Single handed, Two Handed, two weapon (my personal favorite for DPS) and Ranged. Its ability to get good defensive abilities and buffs do give it an advantage. However, it is weak in Crowd Control.

Cleric does not have as many direct defense abilities but does have a few more buffs available to it and with Domains can add different twists to augment, War for access to Holy Sword spell and martial weapon proficiency, or Animal for additional strength and HP, or even Healing for cheap healing spells. There are aspects of War Priest I like but much of it is tied to a specific weapon, I do like the Falconry Tree more, the additional attacks make up for lack of attack options and provide non-spell point cc/debuffs. This tree also allows you to consolidate to Wisdom as your main stat which helps you leverage your CC and Offensive spells like Greater Command or Symbol of Persuasion or Blade Barrier, using these to soften mobs or at least reduce the number of mobs you have to deal with at a time.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I've played both melee DPS cleric and melee DPS paladin a ton, so here's my thoughts -

Paladin is much better for solo'ing. It has better melee DPS than cleric, solid self heals and amazing self only buffs. KotC is a way better DPS tree than Warpriest. It you are solo'ing absolutely go Pally. Pally is just better in most situations because it brings better DPS and has plenty of self heals and way better survivability since it has sacred defender access and divine grace. Most people will be much better off going Pally.

Melee cleric really needs to be played in groups to make it worth using instead of pally. You won't have as much DPS or survivability but it does have a lot more versatility and brings helpful things to a group. It has a wide array of helpful party buffs pally doesn't get like TS, FoM, Holy Aura. Multiple quicken-able Res spells to get the party up fast in hairy situations. Radiance in tier 5 RS is super helpful to parties. In most situations Paladin is better but Melee Cleric can have RS aura going at all times for passive heals and multiple spammable mass cures with no max caster levels through tier 5 RS. War domain gives them Holy Sword to make up a lot of DPS. Main advantage melee cleric has over pally is ability to function as a party healer in addition to doing solid DPS, and bring essential party buffs. Now that said I think if you don't go tier 5 radiant servant you may as well just play pally instead, despite tier 5 RS just being OK. On melee cleric I typically don't use Warpriest much at all and instead go WIS based, tier 4 Falconry.

In either case don't plan on doing any offensive spellcasting. If you're going to play a melee cleric you need to go all in on melee DPS. Or if an offensive caster, go all in on that. There aren't enough feat and gear slots to go around to be good at both offensive casting and melee - trying to do both ends with you being mediocre at both IMO. And Cleric doesn't have any good passive DPS so you can't justify the opportunity cost of time spent casting spells when your melee DPS is way better, or vice versa, if building an offensive caster. If you want to be a hybrid caster/melee, arcanes do that better.

I think that is downplaying the difference between paladin and cleric self healing. Having a few LoH and CSW is a far cry from having self cast Heal spell.
Multiclassing to access better melee trees (DL) and/or using VKF bypasses the weak cleric trees and significantly reduce the DPS disparity. This makes, IMO, cleric much better for soloing and just better over all.

 

[axel15810]

I think that is downplaying the difference between paladin and cleric self healing. Having a few LoH and CSW is a far cry from having self cast Heal spell.

I personally always found Pally self healing to be plenty sufficient when leveling. I am assuming we're talking difficulties like R1 leveling which is where I typically play at when I solo. I've never missed not having the Heal spell. Pally is pretty great at killing everything before taking too much damage, and you're so tough with SaD that you can take a lot of punishment anyway.

Multiclassing to access better melee trees (DL) and/or using VKF bypasses the weak cleric trees and significantly reduce the DPS disparity. This makes, IMO, cleric much better for soloing and just better over all.

NGL the answer to most melee leveling builds in DDO right now is just go 5 DL lol (which I tend to agree with) but since the OP is talking Cleric vs Pally I'm assuming we're talking at most a small splash. If I did though, 15pally/5 DL is what I'd play.

As far as Cleric you could splash DL and it'd be pretty good...I did a 14 FVS/5 DL/1 forced iconic level recently for a FVS past life/iconic PL and thought it was. I went tier 5 DL and tier 4 warsoul. But I thought 14 pally / 5 DL /1 forced iconic lvl was better when I played that. I'd much rather splash DL on a Pally since you definitely don't need much self healing (in my experience) since you get hit so little as a DL as you can CC everything. I'd much rather have KotC and SaD access, the great pally self buffs, particularly Zeal, Righteous Command and Angelskin.

 

[Bjond]

Cleric and the Tank are the only two classes (maybe Arcane caster if you need some CC up) where anyone notices what you're doing. You can hum along as a Paladin in a raid no one is going to notice anything

Heh. The other tank and myself always check agro when someone flips. Paladins in defensive stance are by far the number one culprit. So much so that every time I see an unknown Paladin DPS join raid I roll my eyes and think, "yep, we're gonna kill some DPS tonight".

We tell them to knock it off, turn off defensive stance, but they almost never do -- as if we can't check 'em to see if it's on or not.

If you do pick Paladin, don't be THAT kind of Paladin.

 

[AbyssalMage]

So the cleric I mentioned would be:
Drow
Domain: Not sure
SWF or TWF

41 Knife Fighter - T5 and Cap
31(ish) Falconry (min Trance and hit/damage)
Fey - in early levels. Not needed after level 14

8 ap - discretion

ED - There are a few options

 

[Shear-buckler]

I personally always found Pally self healing to be plenty sufficient when leveling. I am assuming we're talking difficulties like R1 leveling which is where I typically play at when I solo. I've never missed not having the Heal spell. Pally is pretty great at killing everything before taking too much damage, and you're so tough with SaD that you can take a lot of punishment anyway.

Yeah for leveling and running R1 paladin healing is enough but for higher reaper levels Heal has a far higher potential.
For soloing as a melee at endgame you are limited by survivability/healing and not DPS. Even a cleric can melt mobs these days.

NGL the answer to most melee leveling builds in DDO right now is just go 5 DL lol (which I tend to agree with) but since the OP is talking Cleric vs Pally I'm assuming we're talking at most a small splash. If I did though, 15pally/5 DL is what I'd play.

As far as Cleric you could splash DL and it'd be pretty good...I did a 14 FVS/5 DL/1 forced iconic level recently for a FVS past life/iconic PL and thought it was. I went tier 5 DL and tier 4 warsoul. But I thought 14 pally / 5 DL /1 forced iconic lvl was better when I played that. I'd much rather splash DL on a Pally since you definitely don't need much self healing (in my experience) since you get hit so little as a DL as you can CC everything. I'd much rather have KotC and SaD access, the great pally self buffs, particularly Zeal, Righteous Command and Angelskin.

KotC is pretty bad without the capstone and full MP stack so even on a pally version you should take VKF/DL only and ignore KotC. The paladin benefits at that point is mostly the mentioned self buffs (and better saves).

The self buffs are great, but for soloing challenging content accessing Heal is IMO worth far more. The 7 DC from war domain from 14 cleric is also very strong. Overall DPS of the two will be very similar.

Anyways, that is the thought process that lead to my current build.

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/cleric-dragonlord-melee-dps-cc-self-healing-full-endgame-build.14434/

 

[Minako]

Heh. The other tank and myself always check agro when someone flips. Paladins in defensive stance are by far the number one culprit. So much so that every time I see an unknown Paladin DPS join raid I roll my eyes and think, "yep, we're gonna kill some DPS tonight".

We tell them to knock it off, turn off defensive stance, but they almost never do -- as if we can't check 'em to see if it's on or not.

If you do pick Paladin, don't be THAT kind of Paladin.

Are you talking about the defender tree paladins get? You have to turn that on? I thought the first core in that was passive?

 

[Bjond]

Are you talking about the defender tree paladins get? You have to turn that on? I thought the first core in that was passive?

The second core is a stance: you have to turn it on to get the defensive bonuses, but those bonuses also come with +150% threat. Even a half-built newbie can often pull agro from a tank with it turned on.

 

[dur]

Y'all do realize it will change eventually, right? I mean, they really changed both classes.. + clr -pal (my paly had SO many HP before ER) because of CHANGES 1500 now 2500 then.

is why I will NEVER play another MMO - unless Fallout.

 

[l_remmie]

If you havent played either class yet, start with the paladin. It's rock solid and does exactly what you are looking for. If you enjoy that life a lot try the melee cleric afterwards. If you don't enjoy the paladin much, a melee cleric is gonna feel awful to play.

 

[dur]

Oh, right. Paladin, of course
CLR seems good until you realize their jump is nerfed an you run out of mana way too quick and you can't hit for bubkis

Level 12 KotC pally core makes you immune to level drains. So it should be a non-issue past that for a DPS pally.
[]

You just have to remember to take the feat.

Funny how some monsters still manage. ..to level drain you.. like a lot, at legendary

 

[Archest]

Warlock has a large spell point pool, (mana), and I personally like the chain attack of the blaster.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Warlock

I've never played a paladin.

 

[dur]

Warlock has a large spell point pool, (mana), and I personally like the chain attack of the blaster.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Warlock

I've never played a paladin.

Yeah, okay, so why did you reply to a thready about an entirely UNMENTIONED CLASS? Troll, much?

The topic was CLR OR PAL

 

[Archest]

Yeah, okay, so why did you reply to a thready about an entirely UNMENTIONED CLASS? Troll, much?

Ya I troll all the time so much i get blocked by people like you who like to make things personal. get a life.

probably posted to the wrong thread: but since your acusing me of trolling for some unknown reason decided to pick an argument with me.. https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/starting-a-new-character.14535/#post-177516

 

[erethizon1]

The funny thing is no one ever expects my druid to cast a single heal. Druids are great healers, too. I guess the game population has been conditioned over time to not expect it.

Yes, that is exactly it. Back when healers were needed in parties we learned very quickly to think of Druids as selfish characters that didn't heal anyone but themselves. Over time we stopped expecting it. As more time passed, we stopped expecting anyone to heal as BYOH groups became the norm. Now I never expect heals from anyone. Nice when they happen but not something you can count on, even from a cleric.

 

[Fauxknight]

You just have to remember to take the feat.

Funny how some monsters still manage. ..to level drain you.. like a lot, at legendary

Can honestly say I've never been level drained when immune to level drains. Knocked down when immune to knocks downs other such CC immunity bypass sure, but never level drains.