Concerns about DDO...

Based on Severin's post to Twitter (I refuse to call it X), it sounds like the servers have aged so much that the fixes are taking longer and longer. I love this game, and will continue to pay my sub (and buy ultimate versions of x-packs), as long as the servers are running. That said - what happens when the servers hit the breakpoint? Will they get new servers, or just shut the game down?
 

The_Apocalypse

The Chosen One
New servers means less lag, too. The more info an individual character has gets greater over the years, but the servers holding all that info are still old.
 

Vox

Well-known member
Wait a minute, didn;t they "upgrade" the servers a few years ago and Sev said that fixing the lag & issues wasn't just a matter of throwing more money at the server hardware otherwise SSG would have done that already?
 

Kyrr

Well-known member
Wait a minute, didn;t they "upgrade" the servers a few years ago and Sev said that fixing the lag & issues wasn't just a matter of throwing more money at the server hardware otherwise SSG would have done that already?
I can't remember the exact words. A previous developer stated that if they upgraded the game or server(s), it would not function as intended now.
 

Kyrr

Well-known member
The main cause of lag isn't the hardware.
It was stated in a post that the servers were hitting max resources. If you upgrade hardware then they shouldn't hit max resource, though if you aren't at Standing Stone Games with diagnostics, surely you'd be able to inform us on the lag issue and where it's stemming from.
 

nenetteblackmoor

Well-known member
It was stated in a post that the servers were hitting max resources. If you upgrade hardware then they shouldn't hit max resource, though if you aren't at Standing Stone Games with diagnostics, surely you'd be able to inform us on the lag issue and where it's stemming from.
I am not an SSG employee, but I am a game programmer, and I have also worked as an MMO programmer in the past.

Let me explain briefly.

When you talk to the Banker, it opens not just the Character Bank but also the Reincarnation Bank, even though it’s unnecessary.
This unnecessarily increases the amount of data transferred.
There are many such wasteful designs, but do you think there are no other designs like this?

The number of items has increased, and so has the data that needs to be loaded into main memory.
If the design is outdated, there are limits to how much you can cover with hardware improvements alone.

The number of arts that can be performed and the amount of buffs that need to be processed within a given time, as well as the amount of management required, have increased significantly compared to when the design was originally made.

I want you to understand that there are issues with algorithms that can and cannot be addressed just by increasing machine power.

There isn't a single person in this world who can resist the AoE attacks of our god currently descending upon SSG, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If I were an SSG programmer, I would probably have caught the disease of wanting to rebuild everything from scratch.
 

Kyrr

Well-known member
I am not an SSG employee, but I am a game programmer, and I have also worked as an MMO programmer in the past.

Let me explain briefly.

When you talk to the Banker, it opens not just the Character Bank but also the Reincarnation Bank, even though it’s unnecessary.
This unnecessarily increases the amount of data transferred.
There are many such wasteful designs, but do you think there are no other designs like this?

The number of items has increased, and so has the data that needs to be loaded into main memory.
If the design is outdated, there are limits to how much you can cover with hardware improvements alone.

The number of arts that can be performed and the amount of buffs that need to be processed within a given time, as well as the amount of management required, have increased significantly compared to when the design was originally made.

I want you to understand that there are issues with algorithms that can and cannot be addressed just by increasing machine power.

There isn't a single person in this world who can resist the AoE attacks of our god currently descending upon SSG, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If I were an SSG programmer, I would probably have caught the disease of wanting to rebuild everything from scratch.
Uh huh.
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
I am not an SSG employee, but I am a game programmer, and I have also worked as an MMO programmer in the past.

Let me explain briefly.

When you talk to the Banker, it opens not just the Character Bank but also the Reincarnation Bank, even though it’s unnecessary.
This unnecessarily increases the amount of data transferred.
There are many such wasteful designs, but do you think there are no other designs like this?

The number of items has increased, and so has the data that needs to be loaded into main memory.
If the design is outdated, there are limits to how much you can cover with hardware improvements alone.

The number of arts that can be performed and the amount of buffs that need to be processed within a given time, as well as the amount of management required, have increased significantly compared to when the design was originally made.

I want you to understand that there are issues with algorithms that can and cannot be addressed just by increasing machine power.

There isn't a single person in this world who can resist the AoE attacks of our god currently descending upon SSG, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If I were an SSG programmer, I would probably have caught the disease of wanting to rebuild everything from scratch.

Yet over time they do more and more which stretches those resources.

Also, other games manage up to 1,000 times as many players playing the game.
 

nenetteblackmoor

Well-known member
Yet over time they do more and more which stretches those resources.

Also, other games manage up to 1,000 times as many players playing the game.
Yes, I agree with that.
I don't know of any game that has been in service for 18 years and still has 1000 times more players, but I think it depends on the design.
I think it's impressive that DDO has been in service for 18 years and is still expanding its system.
Although the Legendary Sword of Shadow is pretty uncool.


In ancient times, there was a game called Xevious.

It was a fantastic game, but when played on modern hardware, it ends in game over in just 0.1 seconds. (MS-DOS ver)
This is due to a design flaw in the algorithm where the wait was managed by clock rather than time.
To make it work on new hardware, it would require a massive effort to rewrite all the code related to waits, including not just the main loop but also animations and sounds.

While this is a simplified example, updating hardware can create new problems.
To avoid issues, a team and time are needed to build and test a new environment.

I believe the aging of hardware in long-running games is a very challenging issue.
I wouldn't want to do it. lol
 

nenetteblackmoor

Well-known member
World of Warcraft ?
It's a famous MMO.
While DDO is an MO and not an MMO, I think its design focuses on redundancy due to its MMO nature.
Additionally, the combat in DDO is incredibly complex and intricate, unlike anything else.

There are various games to compare, but even with WoW, changing the hardware is probably a tedious task.
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
It's a famous MMO.
While DDO is an MO and not an MMO, I think its design focuses on redundancy due to its MMO nature.
Additionally, the combat in DDO is incredibly complex and intricate, unlike anything else.

There are various games to compare, but even with WoW, changing the hardware is probably a tedious task.

In WoW's case they do spend money on infrastructure. Including setting up a server farm here in Australia.

We dont see evidence of SSG spending money on infrastructure. We just see the downtimes getting longer and longer suggesting they keep trying to do more and more with the same or less.
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
In WoW's case they do spend money on infrastructure. Including setting up a server farm here in Australia.

We dont see evidence of SSG spending money on infrastructure. We just see the downtimes getting longer and longer suggesting they keep trying to do more and more with the same or less.
WOW being subscription based makes the whole comparison a bit u know...
 

Lacci

Well-known member
WOW being subscription based makes the whole comparison a bit u know...
Someone asked for an 18 year old game with 1000x as many players, that´s why I brought it up.

The subscription isn´t much more expensive than a VIP subscription. And it´s a good example of what can be achieved if you invest in infrastructure, update the game engine and do some marketing...

It's a famous MMO.
While DDO is an MO and not an MMO, I think its design focuses on redundancy due to its MMO nature.
Additionally, the combat in DDO is incredibly complex and intricate, unlike anything else.
Not sure what you are trying to say, but on the homepage it´s advertised as an MMORPG, but of course, nowadays the "massive" part is questionable.
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
The companies bottom line makes the comparison laughable.

WoW nearly $700 million in revenue 2023

DDO $20 to $25 million in revenue 2023

I would have thought the numbers are further apart than that. If these numbers are true, given how many people are playing DDO, they really have no excuse for not spending more money fixing issues. Points to an executive who have decided to milk the player base dry, rather than spend what is needed to keep the game going.

I guess they know how many people will continue to pay no matter what.

That said, having played a bit today, the lag did actually seem to be a little better. Maybe its because there were less people around, or maybe the outage actually fixed some things. I guess we know over the weekend.
 
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