Concerns about further level increases and eventual legendary TR
- Thread starter Wizard
- Start date
The question in the end is going to be how many people choose to go on the Legendary TR train?
I play the game just to play the game. I like the way the game plays and that keeps me playing. All the grind has become uninteresting in the extreme and I grind nothing any more. I have no idea if my experience is typical or not however it stands to reason that as the player base gets grey the number of grinders will decrease. In that scenario the investments that SSG makes in terms of level cap increase are likely to be less valuable than they have been in the past.
There is a huge positive for me in deciding the grind is not fun. I'm actually playing mains on other servers and alts on my main server again. This is the first time since 2015 or so that I've done this and it lets me switch up what I am playing on a regular basis instead of just every few weeks after a TR. If the power creep becomes an issue for me I just go play a straight Fighter or Rogue in heroics for awhile and that gets the juices back for a more developed character on the main server. It also means that my fascination with Int builds doesn't block me from playing a FvS now and then.
I play the game just to play the game. I like the way the game plays and that keeps me playing. All the grind has become uninteresting in the extreme and I grind nothing any more. I have no idea if my experience is typical or not however it stands to reason that as the player base gets grey the number of grinders will decrease. In that scenario the investments that SSG makes in terms of level cap increase are likely to be less valuable than they have been in the past.
There is a huge positive for me in deciding the grind is not fun. I'm actually playing mains on other servers and alts on my main server again. This is the first time since 2015 or so that I've done this and it lets me switch up what I am playing on a regular basis instead of just every few weeks after a TR. If the power creep becomes an issue for me I just go play a straight Fighter or Rogue in heroics for awhile and that gets the juices back for a more developed character on the main server. It also means that my fascination with Int builds doesn't block me from playing a FvS now and then.
erethizon1
Well-known member
It's definitely a question of personal preference. I've always found sitting at cap repeating raids to be dull. In this game I enjoy running quests to get favor, but the moment I have the favor the idea of running the quest a second time on the same life seems terrible. I rarely spend 3 full days at cap in no small part because the idea of running the same raids for no extra favor that I just ran 3 days ago sounds incredibly dull and unrewarding.
So I do understand the desire of some people to stay at cap because they have different desires than I do, but I definitely hope they add legendary reincarnation and that doing it drops us back to level 1 to run the entire game again.
erethizon1
Well-known member
As long as a Legendary Reincarnation drops you down to level 1, instead of just dropping you to level 30, there is no reason it could not include racial/heroic/epic/iconic past lives as well. It would make for an excellent catch-up mechanism because people with all lives would get only 1 past life while people that need other lives could get 3 or 4 past lives from a single legendary reincarnation. This keeps the people that are done busy longer and gives newer people hope that catching up is possible.
Well, the first thing, delving bonus no longer applying could happen in 2025 or 2026 when the cap becomes 36. But as long as people only level to cap once, no legendary TR, people will not care about the xp lost and groups will still be (20) 30- 36 for all legendary quests.
But it would be a good time to abolish delving range which IMHO accomplishes nothing. (strong at level people can already carry a group, an extra level here or there doesn't matter.... all it does it limit grouping more)
Reaper lockout for 37+ people could happen in 3-4 years, better to remove that lockout for legendary quests too.
And that works for you. I have no issue with how anyone wants to play. But I'd avoid it like the plague. I'm not willing to start at level 1 over and over and over. I'm willing to do epic TRs, but I only do heroic TRs to change my build or reset the quests to get first time bonuses again. I hate running all those low level quests that I ran so many times before TRing existed.
I just started running a second character consistently and when one gets to cap, I'll epic TR the other. I happen to enjoy raiding, but I understand that just keeping someone at cap can feel like you're not getting anywhere, especially when your rewarded for starting over.
Bjond
Well-known member
So much this. I quite frankly want to delete heroic play and never ever see it again in DDO.
I'll be EXTREMELY disappointed if Lamordia includes heroic features. I want it to have a L21 version and a L36. Epic leveling could use a LOT more variety. Heroics are stuffed to the gills.
Basically, with raid & quest unlocks the way they are now, I can either do the unlocks during heroic leveling or do new stuff. Unlocks always win; eg. I could run ADQ+GH or MD. ADQ+GH unlock things. MD unlocks nothing. XP+Unlock beats XP, MD gets the punt. If there were ZERO quest locks, there would be MUCH more variety to choose from during heroics.
I mostly run quests where I enjoy the mechanics or have unfinished business. Spies in the House gets run about once a week on a few characters. It's good XP and I'm constantly looking for the missing breakables. 10 years of that now. I won't find them but the quest mechanics allow me to get around in new and novel ways even a decade in and Mario is always fun.
There should be a solo equivalent for raiding. For non-power gamers there are a few raids that can be soloed but not very many.
My idea for a long time has been some kind of random dungeon generator that rewards the equivalent of threads to allow solo gamers to buy into the raid system. This could be a cap-only thing so that it is easier to create and balance over time. It could be a single difficulty Legendary Elite only thing and it could feature longer instances than normal so that it is not just about quick grinds for raid gear.
One of the problems with raiding at this point is that so much of the content is known by the power gamers and they are just there to blitz it as fast as possible for threads and the occasional rare drop they've been looking for. That makes it a particularly tough environment for other gamers to join in with. Voodu and a few others lead teaching raids on a regular basis and those people should get a gold star for their efforts, however those raids are almost all older content because newer stuff is hard to teach before you can blitz it on your own.
erethizon1
Well-known member
Yes, I fully agree with making delving bonus just a first time bonus that cannot be removed by having higher level people in your party (even if you are the higher level person). Powerleveling penalties and reaper lockouts can go too. Let people group with anyone they want at any time. It doesn't matter if you are being carried by someone with 200 past lives or someone 10 levels above you. In both cases the game is easy and you are being "powerleveled".
Indeed, delving bonus (called bravery before) came from a time where level meant more since there were far fewer PL and no RP. And population was WAY bigger and only 20 levels, so no shortage of "at level" players.
A lvl 26 char with >100 PL and >100 RP is way stronger than a first lifer 0 RP lvl 27, yet the second one would give xp penalty *for the whole party* in a lvl 22 quest. Makes no sense.
Just get rid of all grouping barriers, delving (maybe just add the bonuses to first time), level lockout, PL range, flagging (red door all quests)
A lvl 26 char with >100 PL and >100 RP is way stronger than a first lifer 0 RP lvl 27, yet the second one would give xp penalty *for the whole party* in a lvl 22 quest. Makes no sense.
Just get rid of all grouping barriers, delving (maybe just add the bonuses to first time), level lockout, PL range, flagging (red door all quests)
Mornyngstar
Well-known member
Some many people in this thread are worried about population and grouping behavior. Coming up sone we are going to have 64-bit servers, this is a given. A certain percentage of the forum posters state they will not be moving, they will only move for x/y/z comes along. As a given the population on the new servers should be higher than current servers. That will mean more people and the chance at that some will be at your level. The current arguments for change is based on what is happening now and not on what is being worked towards. I suggest a wait and see (2-3 months after 64-bit servers are opened for transfers) before advocating for changes to base leveling systems.
Why talk about changing something that may be moot when the new servers are launched?
As to the eventual change to lv 40, that is (at a guess) 5-6 years away and no closer than 3 years (2 level increase every other year or 2 level increase each year).
Just a "what if": The legendary TRs give a bonus that affects the groups you join? Ex. Each member in your group gains +1 damage, or each member in your group gains 1% speed boost, or each member of you group gains +10 Universal Spell Power? You can see how this is going.
Why talk about changing something that may be moot when the new servers are launched?
As to the eventual change to lv 40, that is (at a guess) 5-6 years away and no closer than 3 years (2 level increase every other year or 2 level increase each year).
Just a "what if": The legendary TRs give a bonus that affects the groups you join? Ex. Each member in your group gains +1 damage, or each member in your group gains 1% speed boost, or each member of you group gains +10 Universal Spell Power? You can see how this is going.
Mindos
CHAOTIC EVIL
I am very curious how much the player numbers are falling off the new LOTRO servers, if any.
The Outfit
Well-known member
I can't wait for legendary reincarnation. Imagine sitting at cap mad at lame inquisitive builds. 
Blerkington
Well-known member
My main concern among those raised by the OP is losing access to content on reaper. This is already an issue and is only going to get worse as the cap goes up.
I've got no problem with getting little or no rxp from running overlevel but I still want to be able to play older stuff on harder difficulties and preferably also get loot.
I'm expecting some form of progression system will be added when we get closer to cap so there's still something to do. That might be legendary reincarnation or something else. I don't think a bunch of raids will be enough by themselves, nor would chasing rare and/or boosted loot.
I've got no problem with getting little or no rxp from running overlevel but I still want to be able to play older stuff on harder difficulties and preferably also get loot.
I'm expecting some form of progression system will be added when we get closer to cap so there's still something to do. That might be legendary reincarnation or something else. I don't think a bunch of raids will be enough by themselves, nor would chasing rare and/or boosted loot.
Ying
5000+ hours played
Why is it an issue exactly? In epic levels, reaper is just an XP mod. Running epic quests on anything higher than R1 is an outlier. It's something you do for a challenge or because you're bored. It's not an efficient way to gain reaper XP.
In legendary levels you can totally control the rate of level advancement. It's not like you have to immediately take level 34 or 36 or 38 or 40. So you can farm every bit of legendary content on R10 to maximize reaper XP gains before Legendary TR becomes a thing.
Anurakh
Little Nixie
He doesn't need Reaper XP. He's completed all the Reaper trees and has a good chunk of extra points that are useless to him.
He says this because there are some older quests he likes to play, and he prefers to do so on a difficulty that offers some challenge; doing so on EE is downright boring. It's because we will lose content we enjoy, not because of the Reaper experience, which can be obtained elsewhere.