Consolidating trances - Sacred Fist needs a charisma trance.

Drachmor

Well-known member
Trances are a really important part of the game right now, as a huge part of a build revolves around what stat to focus, and things like insightful to-hit, damage, and DCs are just too big to pass up.

A lot of builds have "consolidated" trances, or trances that exist alongside other stat synergies within that build. For example, the Harper Agent tree allows for int to hit and damage, as well as an int trance in the same tree. The horizon walker tree offers a dex trance, and you're probably investing in dex anyway if you're using it. In Falconry, you can also get a wis trance in the same tree where you can get wis to hit and damage. In each case, the AP investment is fairly high, which makes sense, because it should require some investment to get these powerful abilities. However, in all cases the trance is a very logical part of the build, of these trees.

In Paladin's KOTC tree, it is the same. Paladin has a lot of abilities scaling off of charisma (and you've been able to use charisma to hit and damage through PDK or feydark for a while now), and so there is a cha trance. Favored soul also gets a cha trance in its tree for understandable reasons.

Since these trances are found within a class tree, they do not require that much AP investment, because being locked in a specific class is already a huge hurdle.

Sacred Fist is the one outlier. For a class archetype that is very much based around charisma, it is disheartening that there is no available charisma trance, not in any universal trees (which is fine), but not in its own Sacred Fist tree, despite eliminating Knight of the Chalice. You need to multiclass currently to even use your main stat as a trance, which isn't right.

The stats that you choose to go for are really integrated with your class and enhancement tree choices. On a sacred fist, if you want a trance, you will have to invest in an odd secondary stat (not even your main stat), and heavily invest in one of the universal trees, despite using charisma as a deliberate replacement for the traditional "wisdom monk" focus.

Sacred Fists are charisma monks. Wisdom monks obviously go falconry, but Sacred Fists need their own option. If for whatever reason Divine Might was removed from Sacred Fist (I say "removed" because as a Sacred Fist, you are cutting yourself off from having the option of using the regular Paladin tree) due to some fear that having a charisma trance in a paladin tree (something that already exists) would be too accessible to unrelated builds, then put it a bit higher in the Sacred Fist tree, as if it were a universal tree.

But as it stands, having no innate option for a charisma trance in this tree seems like a problem that needs to be fixed. It is weird that your Sacred Fist needs to multiclass to be on-par with the myriad other weapon-using builds that all go for trances. Trances are very consistently a part of all top builds because you do need them in order to be effective.
 

Grub

Member
This was repeatedly pointed out when Sacred Fist debuted on Lammy. Lynnabel's response was he didn't like natively doubling down on a key stat so he removed the trance on purpose.

I agree with you, this makes sacred fist have to multi class to be functional.

Unfortunately SF also is badly ki-starved for leveling until it gets access to +ki per hit gear. I've had to multiclass with 1 monk and 1 fvs to make the class viable for leveling. That's a terrible class design... multi classing to fill basic holes is really clunky. I should only have to multi class to add a new dimension to a toon, or double down on something, not to make the class functional.
 

Spook

Well-known member
Yes the best proposal on Lamm was add Divine Might and remove cha to hit and damage. Those that wanted to do Cha for everything would have been able to go into Feydark tree.

Another option was to add warpriest tree instead of radiant servant - i like this solution also as in pathfinder Sacred fist is an archetype of Warpriest
 

Drachmor

Well-known member
This was repeatedly pointed out when Sacred Fist debuted on Lammy. Lynnabel's response was he didn't like natively doubling down on a key stat so he removed the trance on purpose.

I agree with you, this makes sacred fist have to multi class to be functional.

Unfortunately SF also is badly ki-starved for leveling until it gets access to +ki per hit gear. I've had to multiclass with 1 monk and 1 fvs to make the class viable for leveling. That's a terrible class design... multi classing to fill basic holes is really clunky. I should only have to multi class to add a new dimension to a toon, or double down on something, not to make the class functional.
Man I really get the not wanting to double down too hard but like ;-;;; if we can already just do Feydark for the cha to hit and damage... idk man. I'm glad it's innate, saves me the enhancements points I guess. Would just nice to have the option then in Sacred Fist for some more points maybe, but if it meant removing the innate cha to hit and damage I guess I'm not a fan?

In any case, you're spot-on about the monk - I forgot I even had it because multiclassing with monk seemed so obvious, but yeah, only reason my ki gen is what it is is because of fire stance.

I know they don't wanna make it too strong as a multiclass but like... as a pure class it seems lacking. Really seriously I would be upset if they took away any of the cool things it has going for it just to add a trance lol. I think it is justified to add one, especially since the innate cha to damage may save you some action points (still, costs you some to get divine might with a MULTICLASS), also multiclassing cuts you off from your capstone, ALSO 6 levels of Sacred Fist investment is *a lot* compared to the action point investment of picking up cha to hit and damage... I could go on.

That's just me anyway. I legitimately do think they could add a cha trance to Sacred Fist as-is. Pls devs please do not inadvertently nerf Sacred Fist tho if you add this <33 pls.

But yeah, I legitimately am a monk+FVS multiclass due to Sacred Fist's shortcomings, would be cool if they added a trance.
 
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