cordo on livestream: 64 bit servers need you to start with completely new toons

Oliphant

Well-known member
Tiny population game starts adding new 64 bit servers rather than upgrading the existing servers or merge. Sounds horrible for anyone that doesn't want to start over, more of our current servers dead and dying.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Tiny population game starts adding new 64 bit servers rather than upgrading the existing servers or merge. Sounds horrible for anyone that doesn't want to start over, more of our current servers dead and dying.
I mean just outright upgrading an existing server to 64 bit without extensive testing is more liable to kill the game.
The safest thing is to ensure the 64 bit servers are working and don't have unexpected issues through allowing regular and sustained play on them first before risking bricking a server and every player on that server.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
I mean just outright upgrading an existing server to 64 bit without extensive testing is more liable to kill the game.
The safest thing is to ensure the 64 bit servers are working and don't have unexpected issues through allowing regular and sustained play on them first before risking bricking a server and every player on that server.
This is perfectly ok. I'm willing to help test the server.

But I'm not willing to give up my toons for good. No.
 

The Nameless One

What can change the nature of a man ?
I mean just outright upgrading an existing server to 64 bit without extensive testing is more liable to kill the game.
The safest thing is to ensure the 64 bit servers are working and don't have unexpected issues through allowing regular and sustained play on them first before risking bricking a server and every player on that server.
Because it's a ploy to make more $$$, especially after Hardcore was losing steam.

New servers may work for LoTRO but DDO is a totally different game. I just don't like the fact they take advantage of DDO's generous spending habits by it's players. Stop squeezing us and just get us new hardware for our well-invested home servers.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
We can only hope so.
The counterpart is : Who will be on them ? When & How ?
Hopefully such a new server will entice new players as well as a great many number of players that left the game because of the lag that has increasingly become worse. Beyond that it has a potential to merge many of the players from all the other combined servers. It could be the next mega server and if it tests well with a big population it is a full success and very positive.

Hopefully for the sake of many long term invested players it leads to a second mega server where all the existing toons can transfer to.
 

Vua

Well-known member
It's .. harder to explain then that. People use words like "server" interchangeably too much. When you hear "server" you think "Orien, etc..", when in reality those are worlds. A world is a collection of servers and we need to be specific when talking about something as technical as it's compiled ISA (x86 vs x64, ARM32 vs ARM64 or whatever it's using). 32-bit stuff has some very nasty limits in todays modern IT world. 3GB of data is absolutely nothing nowadays. Now DDO is an instanced game, meaning each quest we run is a miniature bubble spun up just for us then destroyed when we exit out. That takes a lot of memory pressure off the system since the limitation is per-process not per-server or per-machine. Centralized process's like that action resolve queue or the world character index (database basically) though would still be constrained.
Anyhow this stuff gets complicated quick and isn't something you want to just foist onto the general community. Them spinning up a completely separate world to experiment with is very smsmart.
It's called common usage. The vast majority of us understand the difference by the context, the same way we'd know if you were talking about the first person hitting the ball in tennis, someone bringing us food in a restaurant, or the person delivering a copy of a lawsuit filed against us.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Its interesting to see that the Dev's haven't popped into the conversation to provide some clarification, or at the very least acknowledge peoples concerns. IMHO this isn't a good sign of things to come, when the players are left of of the process.
 

Vua

Well-known member
Its interesting to see that the Dev's haven't popped into the conversation to provide some clarification, or at the very least acknowledge peoples concerns. IMHO this isn't a good sign of things to come, when the players are left of of the process.
Not really surprising for a weekend. This post only started yesterday regardless of how long it seems to have been going on.
 

Xaerxiessia

Lost in Translation
Hopefully such a new server will entice new players as well as a great many number of players that left the game because of the lag that has increasingly become worse. Beyond that it has a potential to merge many of the players from all the other combined servers. It could be the next mega server and if it tests well with a big population it is a full success and very positive.

Hopefully for the sake of many long term invested players it leads to a second mega server where all the existing toons can transfer to.
even the devs'team themselves do not know that :sneaky: .
It's been said : tests' results first
these are points of view from Severlin only and an idealized outcome that he'd wish for, not from any kind of consensus within the team.
 
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J-2

Well-known member
I don't buy that horseshit for a second. They are uninclined to put forth an effort is all.
 

Solarpower

Well-known member
Depends on the reason for the lag, compute, memory or I/O. Going from ~3GB maximum data working set to effectively infinite is kind of a bit deal when discussing MMO's.
PAE allows up to 64 GB on 32bit systems. It's Microsoft's lazy decision to cap on 4Gb for Windows leading to a popular myth about "32bit = only 4Gb". 😏
From the other hand, with 64 bit every variable in a programm would require more memory by default, due to variables being 64bit instead of 32. Even if the data they store don't exceed the 32bit limit. How will increasing memory requirements improve DDO ?

And, the main thing, we know nothing about this new "64bit server". Changing the program to 64bit one without changing hardware won't help a bit. And nobody said anything about hardware yet.
All this topic is about "I just made that up myself and was offended by my own fantasies".
 

Dude

Well-known member
Its interesting to see that the Dev's haven't popped into the conversation to provide some clarification, or at the very least acknowledge peoples concerns. IMHO this isn't a good sign of things to come, when the players are left of of the process.
It's literally the weekend.
 

Ellsee

Active member
I really like the suggestion of a first life server for those new to the game (first character on a new account) - that you transfer from once you reincarnate.

People have said that this would be a problem because new players wouldn't have the benefit of experienced players helping them and taking them under their wing. I dunno about that - I ran public groups in my first life on normal difficulty (that was all I could open and I was learning the quests) and the times I was joined by other players I can count on one hand. Only once did someone take me under their wing - for VON3 - because they wanted to run elite and they were fine with a go-slow approach for me. This is not a complaint. Just stating my experience of joining DDO earlier this year.

So actually, having more experienced players around isn't all that necessary when you are new. In fact it's a bit demoralising to be honest because they're ignoring you and their public groups are running at R1. If new players were grouped together in a less intimidating environment, we might start to group together, learn the quests together and have a better experience of DDO with the added goal of transferring to a new server with the more experienced players once we are ready.

Also those players who are interested in spending some time with new players and helping them along, would probably make a first life character too.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
It shouldn’t be a difficult task to convert past lives. It would even require any real data migration.

I absolutely understand why SSG is being careful here. The cost of conversion and upgrading the other servers is likely high. They need to justify the expenses of everything they do to EG7.

My guess is that they're going to look at the fresh start 64-bit server and then proceed from there. If it is mostly lag-free that gives them a baseline to work from. If not then that saves a lot of cash that would otherwise have been spent in the conversion process on the other servers.

SSG is not going to convert the existing servers to 64 bit unless they believe there is a very good chance that it increases the value of the game to EG7, SSG and ultimately the players.
 

Xaerxiessia

Lost in Translation
PAE allows up to 64 GB on 32bit systems. It's Microsoft's lazy decision to cap on 4Gb for Windows leading to a popular myth about "32bit = only 4Gb". 😏
From the other hand, with 64 bit every variable in a programm would require more memory by default, due to variables being 64bit instead of 32. Even if the data they store don't exceed the 32bit limit. How will increasing memory requirements improve DDO ?

And, the main thing, we know nothing about this new "64bit server". Changing the program to 64bit one without changing hardware won't help a bit. And nobody said anything about hardware yet.
All this topic is about "I just made that up myself and was offended by my own fantasies".
It's per process, so each 32bit binary executed in memory may allocate 4GB only.
Physical_Address_Extension
The 32-bit size of the virtual address is not changed, so regular application software continues to use instructions with 32-bit addresses and (in a flat memory model) is limited to 4 gigabytes of virtual address space. Operating systems supporting this mode use page tables to map the regular 4 GB virtual address space into the physical memory, which, depending on the operating system and the rest of the hardware platform, may be as big as 64 GB. The mapping is typically applied separately for each process, so that the additional RAM is useful even though no single process can access it all simultaneously.
 

Ryiah

Well-known member
It's per process, so each 32bit binary executed in memory may allocate 4GB only.
Physical_Address_Extension
This, and even if it weren't the case it's important to understand that PAE is for 32-bit SYSTEMS. It exists to work around the hardware limit. DDO's server files may be 32-bit but unless they're running them off of a processor older than 2004 (Pentium 4 era) the hardware it's on isn't 32-bit.
 
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