Cormyr is an epic fail as far as lag goes :(

[Bitss]

[] something changed, something broke[]

Several thousand things changed since reboots started.

 

[Phaedra]

Since nerfing the heck out of repeaters didn't work, how about some other novel solutions? Maybe something like this:

PSA: if you are experiencing performance issues in Stardew Valley 1\.6, remove all hats from pets\. We will address the problem as soon as possible

 

[Bitss]

There's something to the amount of data the game needs to send us. AND the hardware they're sending it from -- + Ethernet/Fiber transmission.

And then there's how many fancy things WE wanna see **and the data we need to send back to "SSG."

Right? No? I mean.. it can't all be coding.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

There's something to the amount of data the game needs to send us. AND the hardware they're sending it from -- + Ethernet/Fiber transmission.

And then there's how many fancy things WE wanna see **and the data we need to send back to "SSG."

Right? No? I mean.. it can't all be coding.

Basically all of that is coding.

 

[Phoenicis]

There's something to the amount of data the game needs to send us. AND the hardware they're sending it from -- + Ethernet/Fiber transmission.

And then there's how many fancy things WE wanna see **and the data we need to send back to "SSG."

Right? No? I mean.. it can't all be coding.

Just for reference, data received from SSG during a quest (solo, heroic, monk) was less than 100kbps. Data sent to SSG during that same quest was less then 25kbps. Changing areas was far more stressful on the connection (peaked at about 450kbps)

If either of those rates strain your connection...

 

[Anuulified]

Instead of complaining, submit bugs to where, when and what caused the issues? This is a test server for all intents and purposes, and everyone complaining instead of bug reporting ARE the problem. Leave that server if you are not contributing and just complaining? Food for thought.

 

[Phaedra]

Instead of complaining, submit bugs to where, when and what caused the issues? This is a test server for all intents and purposes, and everyone complaining instead of bug reporting ARE the problem. Leave that server if you are not contributing and just complaining? Food for thought.

Paying to do testing for them, and using my limited play time to write detailed bug reports? Sounds less like being VIP than being an unpaid intern (but worse! Paying for the privilege.)

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

I played several hours today and didn’t experience much lag. I also really like the mist walkers as it forces groups to stay close together and work together. And the MW add another unpredictable or random element to a game where we know where every mob is located.

 

[Bitss]

Basically all of that is coding.

Huh.. so no bandwidth involved.. huh..

 

[Spikkel]

Instead of complaining, submit bugs to where, when and what caused the issues? This is a test server for all intents and purposes, and everyone complaining instead of bug reporting ARE the problem. Leave that server if you are not contributing and just complaining? Food for thought.

If I can pinpoint a bug, I will file a bugreport.

But:
* This is not a single bug that an enduser without inside knowledge can see
* I am a paying customer (VIP). And in so, I expect that the product has passed Q&A.

Lag makes all servers unplayable at this moment, not only Cormyr. This is so since the release of Myth Drannor.
As a DEV, you need to start searching in what you changed prior to that.
It has been bad before, and fixed to the level of ‘annoying but acceptable‘ multiple times before.
This time it has stayed terrible for months now.
What we see here is a system running on ancient technology, which has accumulated an humongous amount of technical debt and has an unfit software architecture for this scale (monolithical).
It is a job that takes years but a lot less than just recreating a system with so much contents and is so customizable.
This calls for a long term strategy and is crucial for survival long term.
Parallell it stays perfectly possible to add or change content, as long as the engine doesnt have to change

Here I repeat myself…priorities (free, short advice from a saas software architect, @Cordovan yes I am willing to take a not-free-look-under-NDA)
1) fix introduced bugs in spring this year
2) everything 64bit, a modern OS
3) here comes the real job…..split the monolith into jobs/responsibilities (microservices) 1 thing at a time. For example: Authentication, Dungeon instance, public instance, communication (messagequeue), Bank access, Character Creation, …
These should all be loosely coupled processes that communicate with eachother.
This allows you to go entirely virtual with automatically upspinning or powering down servers when necessary
For the outside world it looks like 1 server, but in fact it could be 1 or 379.
4) Here you should have something scaleable and manageable, keep innovating

This goes way beyond the developers and beyond Q&A, this is a company (management) decision.
I did say how this would probably be handled in our SAAS company in another thread

As a paying customer that doesn’t receive what is being paid for, you have only 2 options:
1) complain hard, say it together with everyone affected and make it clear that this is unacceptable
2) don’t pay anymore, walk away

This is global economic phenomenon, a dissatisfied customer that does not get what he pays for… leaves,
and if too many do that, the result is bankruptcy

So I would say we are very patient and friendly to complain on something we have 0 influence on in another way

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Huh.. so no bandwidth involved.. huh..

“bandwidth” in a game like this is almost always coding over “bandwidth”.

There’s not large amounts of data being sent around, so optimizing the engine around the calls is far more important than just raw “bandwidth”.

 

[Mornyngstar]

If I can pinpoint a bug, I will file a bugreport.

But:
* This is not a single bug that an enduser without inside knowledge can see
* I am a paying customer (VIP). And in so, I expect that the product has passed Q&A.

Lag makes all servers unplayable at this moment, not only Cormyr. This is so since the release of Myth Drannor.
As a DEV, you need to start searching in what you changed prior to that.
It has been bad before, and fixed to the level of ‘annoying but acceptable‘ multiple times before.
This time it has stayed terrible for months now.
What we see here is a system running on ancient technology, which has accumulated an humongous amount of technical debt and has an unfit software architecture for this scale (monolithical).
It is a job that takes years but a lot less than just recreating a system with so much contents and is so customizable.
This calls for a long term strategy and is crucial for survival long term.
Parallell it stays perfectly possible to add or change content, as long as the engine doesnt have to change

Here I repeat myself…priorities (free, short advice from a saas software architect, @Cordovan yes I am willing to take a not-free-look-under-NDA)
1) fix introduced bugs in spring this year
2) everything 64bit, a modern OS
3) here comes the real job…..split the monolith into jobs/responsibilities (microservices) 1 thing at a time. For example: Authentication, Dungeon instance, public instance, communication (messagequeue), Bank access, Character Creation, …
These should all be loosely coupled processes that communicate with eachother.
This allows you to go entirely virtual with automatically upspinning or powering down servers when necessary
For the outside world it looks like 1 server, but in fact it could be 1 or 379.
4) Here you should have something scaleable and manageable, keep innovating

This goes way beyond the developers and beyond Q&A, this is a company (management) decision.
I did say how this would probably be handled in our SAAS company in another thread

As a paying customer that doesn’t receive what is being paid for, you have only 2 options:
1) complain hard, say it together with everyone affected and make it clear that this is unacceptable
2) don’t pay anymore, walk away

This is global economic phenomenon, a dissatisfied customer that does not get what he pays for… leaves,
and if too many do that, the result is bankruptcy

So I would say we are very patient and friendly to complain on something we have 0 influence on in another way

1. People have been complaining about lag for a long time now.
2. Lag comes from multiple sources, one of which is server-side lag based on the 32-bit servers.
3. In order to reduce the server-side lag they made Cormyr (a 64-bit) server.
4. In order to NOT have too many people on the server they had to restrict access, so out of the population of VIP, Premium, F2P which should they choose to allow into the server?
5. That means VIPs have the perk of playing Lanterns in The Mist event but access to Cormyr was just to limit people. (Maybe a little money grab, imo)
6. It was stated by Cordovan in his Fridays at Four @ 1:15, that they had an update, but it was not ready for Wednesday November 6, 2024. It was pushed back to possible Wednesday November 13, 2024.

This only addresses part of what you were saying but I hope this clarifies some of it.

 

[Ein]

Lost my lvl 16 hard core on Cormyr due to lag. Had collected 1600 out of 2000 points in the skull lantern. That was it for me. Will terminate my subscription

 

[Bitss]

Yes, because lag ist delay in networking, the data that is being sent from the server to the client doesn´t change with the clients graphics settings.
Many people confuse stuttering due to high graphics settings with lag.

Who are "they" ? The servers ? The servers don´t render any graphics, they don´t have graphic settings, how should they be bottlenecked by it ?

“bandwidth” in a game like this is almost always coding over “bandwidth”.

There’s not large amounts of data being sent around, so optimizing the engine around the calls is far more important than just raw “bandwidth”.

You so sure? All the grapical effects SSG added? Bandwidth is the space needed to throw all those things into existence. Bandwidth allows for all that DATA to flow.

LATENCY (lag) happens when it can't or it's slowed.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

You so sure? All the grapical effects SSG added? Bandwidth is the space needed to throw all those things into existence. Bandwidth allows for all that DATA to flow.

LATENCY (lag) happens when it can't or it's slowed.

Well, I certainly know the size of pipe doesn't affect graphics rendering. I don't even know if you're being sarcastic. Pretty sure you're not though.

It certainly could be caused in small or large part by the EFFECTS of the graphics, or requirements for reporting their positions, etc, if that's what you mean?

But network lag is definitely not from rendering the graphics.

 

[Bitss]

I'm not. I'm genuinely trying to think this through.
*although I may surely come off as bombastic at times.
[songs deleted]

 

[Phoenicis]

You so sure? All the grapical effects SSG added? Bandwidth is the space needed to throw all those things into existence. Bandwidth allows for all that DATA to flow.

LATENCY (lag) happens when it can't or it's slowed.

Graphics are generated on the client (your computer) not the server. Bandwith has nothing to do with graphical effects.

 

[Phoenicis]

K.. but graphics is generated by their server, right? not trying to be a smart-ass, I just don't understand how we have all this fancy and their servers just shrug.

No, the server generates a command (probably something along the lines of 16 bits) and sends THAT to the client. The Server generates NO graphics.

 

[Bitss]

No, the server generates a command (probably something along the lines of 16 bits) and sends THAT to the client. The Server generates NO graphics.

So SSG can intro graphical effects galore with no lag? I find that hard to believe. The data still has to be transferred, amonst X users. The game still has to know what it's doing/rendering/rolling.

 

[Phoenicis]

So SSG can intro graphical effects galore with no lag? I find that hard to believe. The data still has to be transferred, amonst X users. The game still has to know what it's doing/rendering/rolling.

It's actually quite easy to test.

Second monitor, bring up task manager.
Watch the performance tab, specifically the ethernet chart and GPU.
You will note that the bandwidth used is minimal and only spikes when moving between public areas, while the graphics processor is far more utilized. Even more so when there are more graphical effects active on the screen.

Framerate dropping is not the same as lag, though some people make that mistake understandably. Any moderately advanced graphics card should be able to run DDO at 150+ FPS.

You seem to be under the impression that the servers stream graphics to the clients. They do not.