DD Staff Build - Is it missing the obvious?

Bjond

Bjond

Well-known member
Bobbryan2 said:
handwraps are probably too powerful right now.
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I think they're just about right. They're very similar to Razorclaw at present (the current nerfed RC, not the old OP one) -- slightly behind TWF. The 5+MP per Unarmed was a nice counter to VKF and MUCH nicer than lumping it all into a capstone.

The only win I see for monk v assassin at present is that quivering palm doesn't require a sneak attack, but you pay for that with bit less DPS, no trapping, less weapon-debuff, harder tetris, and low MRR.

OK, there's runspeed. That's a win while leveling, since runspeed mostly determines xp rate.
 
Bobbryan2

Bobbryan2

Well-known member
Bjond said:
I think they're just about right. They're very similar to Razorclaw at present (the current nerfed RC, not the old OP one) -- slightly behind TWF. The 5+MP per Unarmed was a nice counter to VKF and MUCH nicer than lumping it all into a capstone.

The only win I see for monk v assassin at present is that quivering palm doesn't require a sneak attack, but you pay for that with bit less DPS, no trapping, less weapon-debuff, harder tetris, and low MRR.

OK, there's runspeed. That's a win while leveling, since runspeed mostly determines xp rate.
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I mean.... you're comparing handwraps to one of the highest dps melee builds, so... yeah... that indicates they're really powerful.
The bigger issue is that Quarterstaves are just at the nexus of about 3 penalties. THF is in a terrible place right now and sucks at high level raiding. QS have fewer attacks/min than other THF options combined with lower damage and a terrible crit profile (with some unique ways to increase it), and then it's also has the completely unnecessary nerf of not even having the 15% speed bonus to Dragon Disciple.
Most of those fixes have nothing to do with DD, and are just a bigger combat style bonus balancing fix. But when they forget to include the 15% bonus attack speed, it just makes the other issues more glaring.
 
T

Thumbed_Servant

Well-known member
Taleisin said:
Did a TR to a new Staff monk and was hoping to try DD, but realized it is missing the +15% Attack Speed of Henshin Mystic. Was this on purpose? Could the devs add the staff speed to DD or possibly just put it in Shintao in order for both DD and regular monk to have access to it?

Seems like without it, the staff version of the DD is simply not very good.

Did I miss something on this? I'm guessing I did. Thank you!
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If you want to play a particular build (in this case a staff build) and it is supported in one class and not another, then play the class in which your build is supported. WHY are you asking for a different class to support your build? Do you want DDO to be so generic that any build can be supported by any race/class/enhancement tree? Why are you crying about not being able to build your favorite build the way you want when there are SO many options in the game? YOU are the point of inflexibility and YOU need to make the change, NOT DDO. Use the game as it is written, don't ask for the game to bend-over-backwards to please you.
 
Bobbryan2

Bobbryan2

Well-known member
Thumbed_Servant said:
If you want to play a particular build (in this case a staff build) and it is supported in one class and not another, then play the class in which your build is supported. WHY are you asking for a different class to support your build? Do you want DDO to be so generic that any build can be supported by any race/class/enhancement tree? Why are you crying about not being able to build your favorite build the way you want when there are SO many options in the game? YOU are the point of inflexibility and YOU need to make the change, NOT DDO. Use the game as it is written, don't ask for the game to bend-over-backwards to please you.
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Because it would be better if dragon disciple had more build options than fewer?
I mean... is there some sort of balance reason that you wouldn't want Dragon Disciple to be equally good with monk weapons as other monks? Is there some kind of in-game justification? Either lore or balance?

It's not like anyone is banging down the door to play a dragon disciple as anything other than a leveling curiosity right now.

Well.... one particular build is having a moment in the sun... but yeah... that won't last.
 
Bobbryan2

Bobbryan2

Well-known member
Jasparius said:
No. But friends in my guild have. If the issue is that many of the options available to DD are weak, push for them to be boosted. Dont just push for more ways for them to be played.
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Push for ways for them to be boosted... like adding 15% DPS to a weapon type that is most geared to casters?
Like... Wouldn't that be a better way to play a fire DD that's leveling in epic? Grabbing an epic Incineration and going to town with blasts and melee attacks?

Like.... their entire point?
 
J

Jasparius

Well-known member
Bobbryan2 said:
Push for ways for them to be boosted... like adding 15% DPS to a weapon type that is most geared to casters?
Like... Wouldn't that be a better way to play a fire DD that's leveling in epic? Grabbing an epic Incineration and going to town with blasts and melee attacks?

Like.... their entire point?
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Henshin is where the QS speed boost is. DD replaced it. There is no speed boost for QS in DD. I mean I guess maybe they forgot... but more likely they didnt think QS was the way to go for DD. There are boosts for other weapon types though. So probably that is what is expected to be played.

As for casters and QS, you dont want a QS for casting, you want it for THF. The best Sacred Fist QS builds involve splashing FVS and Monk or Rogue. You could very easily splash Rogue and FVS as well.
 
Bobbryan2

Bobbryan2

Well-known member
Jasparius said:
Henshin is where the QS speed boost is. DD replaced it. There is no speed boost for QS in DD. I mean I guess maybe they forgot... but more likely they didnt think QS was the way to go for DD. There are boosts for other weapon types though. So probably that is what is expected to be played.

As for casters and QS, you dont want a QS for casting, you want it for THF. The best Sacred Fist QS builds involve splashing FVS and Monk or Rogue. You could very easily splash Rogue and FVS as well.
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They absolutely forgot... I can't believe that's even controversial. :)

Do you know what the epic *Tinder is?

Look it up. It's one of those cool weapons with flaming blast and incineration and all kinds of melee buffs... but it also gives combustion and fire lore and is a spell casting implement.
You know... a hybrid weapon.

Like a LOT of quarterstaves are in this game.
For a hybrid melee/caster.
EDIT: Sorry... the Epic Tinder... I'm saying Incineration cuz it has that on it. My bad.



 
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Taleisin

Well-known member
Bobbryan2 said:
They absolutely forgot... I can't believe that's even controversial. :)

Do you know what the epic *Tinder is?

Look it up. It's one of those cool weapons with flaming blast and incineration and all kinds of melee buffs... but it also gives combustion and fire lore and is a spell casting implement.
You know... a hybrid weapon.

Like a LOT of quarterstaves are in this game.
For a hybrid melee/caster.
EDIT: Sorry... the Epic Tinder... I'm saying Incineration cuz it has that on it. My bad.



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This is what I am thinking. It feels like it’s an oversight. DD is still a monk and I’m trying a handwraps version now. Seems odd to leave staves in the dust given that they can make a decent hybrid weapon!
 
Bjond

Bjond

Well-known member
Taleisin said:
This is what I am thinking. It feels like it’s an oversight. DD is still a monk and I’m trying a handwraps version now. Seems odd to leave staves in the dust given that they can make a decent hybrid weapon!
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I have a suspicion punting Henshin from DD has a lot more to do with trying to keep it from leveraging Ki Bolt than nerfing Qstaff.
 
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