DDO Loadout Optimizer: Your best-in-slot gear, *proven by math*
- Thread starter Sook
- Start date
Sook
Well-known member
THE GEM OF MANY FACETS IS NOW A REAL GEARING DECISION
It carries three Essence Crafting menus on one trinket.... Prefix, Suffix, Extra.... and the optimizer now picks what goes in all three. The reason it matters is bonus type stacking. Say you're already wearing a +15 Enhancement Con necklace:
Craft Constitution into the Prefix.....+0. Same bucket, take the max.
Craft Insightful Constitution into the Extra.....+6. Different bucket.
It also knows Insightful effects need ML 10 (so the heroic Gem's Extra menu is genuinely empty), and that crafted values scale with the item's ML....the same shard is +4 on the heroic Gem and +13 on the Legendary.
Honest limit: it offers 25 of the 170 effects those menus hold. The rest are left out because the wiki doesn't state their bonus type, and a guess there is indistinguishable from a real number once it's in your totals. The result tells you the count.
EQUIPMENT RULES
- 97 rings can be worn twice, read from the wiki's Exclusive and Minor Artifact categories, with 63 correctly refused. Changes BiS: doubling a strong ring, and two copies both counting toward a set.
- Doublestrike caps at 100% on main hand and it stops paying past it. Doubleshot is deliberately NOT capped....it wraps into extra shots where its sibling stops dead, so the analogy is refused. I had no idea!
- Dodge is no longer clamped by Max Dex numbers that traced to nothing. It reports un-reduced and says armor Max Dex isn't modelled, so check your own.
ALSO IN
- Greater Heroism credits its actual +4 Morale to saves instead of being on/off
- The three Topaz of Swiftness augments finally count — movement speed AND
alacrity, the half the visible label doesn't mention
- Tick the adventure packs you own and it stops recommending gear you can't get
- Farming list grouped by adventure pack, so you can plan a night's runs
- Exclude a set....."best build that doesn't need Legendary Shaman's Fury"
- Skip a bonus type you already have from a character mechanics, or give it the number
and it'll only take gear that beats it
- Gear pool step rebuilt....collapsible sections, readable pack names
- Exported builds can now be imported (that round trip was broken)
NOT MODELLED, AND IT SAYS SO
135 of 157 Essence Crafting effects have no sourced bonus type yet. Essence Crafting
on weapons, rings and rune arms. Armor Max Dex. Filigrees and Sentient Weapons.
Everything traces to the DDO Wiki.... where the wiki doesn't say, it's disclosed
rather than guessed, because a wrong number and a right one look identical in a
finished build.
It carries three Essence Crafting menus on one trinket.... Prefix, Suffix, Extra.... and the optimizer now picks what goes in all three. The reason it matters is bonus type stacking. Say you're already wearing a +15 Enhancement Con necklace:
Craft Constitution into the Prefix.....+0. Same bucket, take the max.
Craft Insightful Constitution into the Extra.....+6. Different bucket.
It also knows Insightful effects need ML 10 (so the heroic Gem's Extra menu is genuinely empty), and that crafted values scale with the item's ML....the same shard is +4 on the heroic Gem and +13 on the Legendary.
Honest limit: it offers 25 of the 170 effects those menus hold. The rest are left out because the wiki doesn't state their bonus type, and a guess there is indistinguishable from a real number once it's in your totals. The result tells you the count.
EQUIPMENT RULES
- 97 rings can be worn twice, read from the wiki's Exclusive and Minor Artifact categories, with 63 correctly refused. Changes BiS: doubling a strong ring, and two copies both counting toward a set.
- Doublestrike caps at 100% on main hand and it stops paying past it. Doubleshot is deliberately NOT capped....it wraps into extra shots where its sibling stops dead, so the analogy is refused. I had no idea!
- Dodge is no longer clamped by Max Dex numbers that traced to nothing. It reports un-reduced and says armor Max Dex isn't modelled, so check your own.
ALSO IN
- Greater Heroism credits its actual +4 Morale to saves instead of being on/off
- The three Topaz of Swiftness augments finally count — movement speed AND
alacrity, the half the visible label doesn't mention
- Tick the adventure packs you own and it stops recommending gear you can't get
- Farming list grouped by adventure pack, so you can plan a night's runs
- Exclude a set....."best build that doesn't need Legendary Shaman's Fury"
- Skip a bonus type you already have from a character mechanics, or give it the number
and it'll only take gear that beats it
- Gear pool step rebuilt....collapsible sections, readable pack names
- Exported builds can now be imported (that round trip was broken)
NOT MODELLED, AND IT SAYS SO
135 of 157 Essence Crafting effects have no sourced bonus type yet. Essence Crafting
on weapons, rings and rune arms. Armor Max Dex. Filigrees and Sentient Weapons.
Everything traces to the DDO Wiki.... where the wiki doesn't say, it's disclosed
rather than guessed, because a wrong number and a right one look identical in a
finished build.
VinoeWhines
Well-known member
Great work in having the Gem of Many Facets work as many will want to use that still.
The double ring set bonus is much welcomed.
Hopefully, Essence Crafting can be smoothed out as, being that I would prefer to have a tactic on a offhand weapon, to be able to free up a Gear Slot, for other very crucial things needed. (an offhand Dagger of Assassinate/Insightful Assassinate is where a gear slot could be saved for other high priority needs)
Thanks again for creating a Treasure for many to enjoy. It's great that you enjoy the fruits of your labor as well. Congrats on that.
If you have a very specific Cannith Crafted item you would like to builds around that is doable.
Just place a worthless item with the correct augment slots in the item slot in question and manually add the stats from the crafted item on the priority list (not on the item, but on the priority list by clicking advanced for the stat in question).
Not perfect - but doable
Sook
Well-known member
Build 08302026.17 the “your cursed gear is actually cursed” update
Today was a bit of a monster: 19 merges, from 08302026.1 through .17. The theme is pretty simple:The optimizer was sometimes giving gear credit for all of its upside while politely ignoring the part where it ruins your life. It was also missing a surprisingly large chunk of the augment catalog. Both got a lot better today.
Your loadout's numbers are more honest now
Cursed gear finally comes with the curse
Previously, if the optimizer equipped something like the Ring of Baphomet, it happily took the good stuff and pretended the two curses were just flavor text. Not anymore.The Ring now correctly carries:
- −1 Wisdom
- −1 Charisma
- Glass Cannon: −25 Fortification
- Bloodrage Symbiont: −2 Constitution
- Epic Quiver of Alacrity: −50 Concentration
- roughly 30 other items with actual drawbacks
And yes, penalties stack
This turned out to matter more than simply teaching the solver that negative numbers exist.DDO's rule is:
So if multiple pieces are beating up the same stat, you get all of them. Will Save alone can pick up penalties from five different slots. Before today, those penalties effectively vanished. And a simplistic fix would have been wrong too, because treating them like ordinary bonus types would mean keeping only the worst penalty. The solver now understands that penalties are their own miserable little stacking party....
Named curses are now translated into what they actually do
Things like:- Curse of Foolishness >>>>> −1 Wisdom
- Curse of Repulsiveness >>>>> −1 Charisma
Cursed items no longer eliminate innocent gear before the solve
This one was sneakier. The optimizer has a candidate-reduction step before the actual solver runs. Because that stage didn't understand penalties, a cursed item could occasionally appear “better” than a clean alternative and cause the clean item to get thrown away before the optimization even started.That's fixed too.
A lot more of the actual DDO catalog is available now
81 Epic Sun/Moon gems added
This was the biggest catalog hole I found today. If your character was between ML 20 and ML 29, the optimizer had access to only:17 of the 103 gems the game actually offers at that tier.
Nothing warned you about this. They simply weren't there. The reason is upstream data. That entire ML20 Epic tier was never scraped. It still hasn't been, I checked. So I harvested and added 81 missing Epic Sun/Moon gems directly.
If you're optimizing an Epic-level character, your gem choices just got dramatically better.
Power Store works on 8 more items
The Green Dragonscale line and Staff of the Petitioner have Power Store, which reduces spell-point cost by 10%. The data had it recorded as basically a yes/no property, which meant the optimizer couldn't actually rank it.So you could tell the optimizer:
...and it would respond by ignoring eight items that literally improve spell-point efficiency.
That's fixed.
Stone Shoes finally understand why they're heavy
Weighty Asset gives +100 unconsciousness range. Holding On gives +40 unconsciousness range. Those are the same underlying stat as Undying. Previously, they contributed exactly nothing to an Undying-focused build. They do now. hahaha this made me laugh when I read it in the wiki:"This item is so heavy you find it hard to be dragged anywhere....even to your grave. You benefit from a +100 Enhancement bonus to increased unconsciousness range."
I love this game.
20 Sneak Attack affixes were using a bonus type that were labeled wrong
This was causing them to stack with things they shouldn't. Twenty records corrected. Your rogue can stop benefiting from alternate-universe DDO rules.... /sarcasmSmaller fixes you'll actually notice
Blocking a pinned item works now
This one was impressively broken. If you blocked an item that was already pinned, the app would:- refuse to block it,
- clear your selection so it looked like something happened,
- flash a warning,
- immediately erase that warning on the next redraw.
Now it behaves like a normal piece of software.
Curses are no longer career goals
Typing curse into the priority picker used to offer things like:Curse of Foolishness...as something your character might actively want more of....lol
Those are gone from the goal picker....you're welcome. The optimizer is once again assuming you are trying to improve your character.
Essence Crafting highlighting is clearer
If an Essence Crafting effect actually contributes to your result, its indicator is now a solid diamond rather than a hollow one. Small change, much easier to read. (activated this seed for future releases...only works currently for Gem of Many Facets.)Capped stats now credit the right item
There was an annoying presentation bug where the breakdown might say a craft was supplying +9, even though something like your off-hand was already supplying +10. The solver had the right general idea, but the explanation was crediting the wrong source and the raw-total display could follow it into the weeds.That's fixed.
The item actually providing the value now gets the credit.
No more crafting something worse than what you're wearing
If your existing gear already beats an available craft, the optimizer stops recommending that craft.Because apparently:
...is not compelling build advice.
Gear-pool labels finally tell the truth
The blocked-items panel could say:Nothing blocked...while staring directly at a list of blocked items.
The pinned-items label was even better. It had essentially never worked and always said:
Nothing pinned
regardless of reality.
Both now update properly.....VICTORY!!
What's next
There are currently 20 open issues.Three came directly out of today's data harvest and are probably where I'll start next.
#639 — five suspicious drawback effects
Mind Drain, Power Drain, Metal Fatigue, Cursed Level Drain, and Critical Weakening.They look penalty-shaped, but I need to determine what each one actually represents:
player penalty, enemy debuff, clicky effect, or something else entirely.
#640 — Solar Gem of Arcana
The wiki has versions at 50 / 100 / 150.The optimizer currently has none of them.
#641 — Solar Gem of Heal and Listen
We have it.The wiki apparently does not.
One of us is hallucinating.
I would prefer that it not be us.
Bigger player-facing features still on the board
#611 — craft high-ML gear down
Let the optimizer consider taking a higher-level crafting host and crafting it down so a lower-level character can use it.Right now the ML filter throws the item out before crafting gets a chance to make it legal.
#459 — show where you're over cap
The goal is something like:This one is technically unblocked, but verified cap data is still thin. Right now I only have a solid cap rule for Doublestrike.
#240 — show tied set alternatives
Sometimes a set can produce the same final result as the winning loadout, but requires more pieces.The solver correctly rejects it on the tie-break.
I'd still like the UI to tell you:
Because players may have reasons the math doesn't know about.
The large systems still waiting their turn
These aren't little fixes. They're actual chunks of DDO that need modeling.- #196 — Filigrees / Sentient Weapons
- #194 — Green Steel / Thunder-Forged crafting hosts
- #331 — Proc valuation
- #591 — 64 stat-less Cannith weapons, largely waiting on proc valuation
- #214 — conditional and ramping effects, which are currently stored much too simplistically as flat numbers
One I could use player input on
#192 — Command's Hide penalty
Command improves Charisma-based skills but also carries a −6 Hide penalty. The upside already exists in the optimizer and is rankable. The Hide penalty does not. Now that the solver properly understands penalties, adding this is fairly cheap. The question is whether anyone actually cares. It's one enchantment across roughly 40 items, and the correction only changes optimization for someone who is actually ranking Hide.Soooooo:
Are any of you building characters where that −6 Hide should genuinely influence the optimizer?
If yes, I'll harvest it.
If the collective response is “Sook, absolutely nobody is optimizing Hide,” there are probably more interesting monsters to kill first.
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Fluky
Well-known member
Optimal filigree layouts don't have many permutations and have been solved so I would say adding that is a lower priority. Here is a good list - https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/lominals-r10-and-raid-build-repository.20894/page-17
I don't have much interest in green steel.
I try and fit command where I can and have never cared about the penalty to hide. Usually I just slot a brightbane emerald where I can, and I would just leave it out if I had a sneak build, I guess.
Maybe some of these are poll-worthy?
VinoeWhines
Well-known member
Thanks for your input but was wondering as Assassinate, for this instance was top priority to get highest stat. Cannith Crafted can get Enhancement/Insightful stat, so the need would be all other possible stats, e.g. Quality, Profane, Artifact and whatever other stat could be placed in Gear.
Ya it seems, it's going to be tricky to try and work around not telling Planner to put certain stats on certain items on prompt but will look at that option to see how it can get pulled off.
You can lock Named Gear on slots so that, is a step forward.
don't think any of these can be capped by gear alone, but...
- dodge has a hard cap of 95%
- I think that concealment and incorporeal also have the same 95% hard cap, but not sure
- strikethrough caps at 400%
- while jump doesn't have a hard cap, it provides no benefit past 40, except as a buffer against debuffs like sneaking (-20) or armor check penalty (up to 6 from armor, 9 from shield, and 6 from heavy encumbrance)
- pretty sure offhand strike chance and shield bash chance both cap at 100%
Sook
Well-known member
Thanks! I'll source these details out and implement. Very helpful.
Just swapped some EDs and enh around before a tr to test, and it looks like there's no concealment cap. 25% shadowdancer mantle, 50% displacement, and 95% feydark cap active all stacked to 170%
Cmecu
Well-known member
I havent had time to look at this yet. I was about to make a post about frustration of playing gear tetris from a person who hasnt optimzed their gear since Isle of Dread.
So I am very far behind on gear updates. I have Wild Mage sorc I am playing right now for the next three iconic past lives ( chaosmancer) and I wanted to optmize my gear, for evocation, and spell power for Fire and Kinetic.
I have all the expansions. But I dont really have that much of the new gear. I have some Vecna gear .. but like I said, I havent optimized since IOD. I see so many new things like the moon and sun slots for augments.. And it just gets so overwhelming.
I tell you what would be perfect.. and I dont know if Trove from Dungeon helper does this.. but it would be nice if I could log into all my mules, and all of my gear is recorded in some file automatically... log into my main and his gear is recorded.. then once the program knows what all I own, I hit OPTIMIZE button and it will have a layout for me of best in slot that gives me the best evocation, Enchantment, Illusion DC's, spell powers that I want, PRR MRR hit points etc..
I hate spending an entire day or longer just looking over gear, and trying to figure out how to optimize my guy.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Quit? lol
So I am very far behind on gear updates. I have Wild Mage sorc I am playing right now for the next three iconic past lives ( chaosmancer) and I wanted to optmize my gear, for evocation, and spell power for Fire and Kinetic.
I have all the expansions. But I dont really have that much of the new gear. I have some Vecna gear .. but like I said, I havent optimized since IOD. I see so many new things like the moon and sun slots for augments.. And it just gets so overwhelming.
I tell you what would be perfect.. and I dont know if Trove from Dungeon helper does this.. but it would be nice if I could log into all my mules, and all of my gear is recorded in some file automatically... log into my main and his gear is recorded.. then once the program knows what all I own, I hit OPTIMIZE button and it will have a layout for me of best in slot that gives me the best evocation, Enchantment, Illusion DC's, spell powers that I want, PRR MRR hit points etc..
I hate spending an entire day or longer just looking over gear, and trying to figure out how to optimize my guy.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Quit? lol
Not sure if your solver knows this, but solar spellpower and solar spell crit chance are *not* universal bonuses. That is, solar spellpower is artifact potency, which stacks with universal spellpower like sharn's esoteric set, but not individual spellpowers like the flamecleansed set. Solar spell crit chance is artifact spell lore, which stacks with universal spell crit chance like sand's elder's set, but not individual lore like flamecleansed.
I don't know which version solar spell crit damage is.
I don't know which version solar spell crit damage is.
Sook
Well-known member
You’re right on all three points. I went back and checked both the wiki and what the optimizer is actually doing under the hood, because DDO bonus types are where simple questions go to die.
Solar Spellpower: yep.
The Legendary gem gives Artifact Potency 25. Since Potency applies to all spellpowers, the optimizer expands that across all ten elemental spellpower stats as an Artifact bonus.
So:
- It stacks with Universal Spell Power, like Sharn’s Esoteric Initiate bonus. Universal Spell Power is fully stacking and just gets added on top.
- It does not stack with Flamecleansed Fury’s Combustion, because Flamecleansed is also giving you an Artifact bonus. Same bucket, highest number wins.
Solar Spell Crit Chance: same story.
The gem gives Artifact Spell Lore +2 / +4 / +6.
That means it:
- Stacks with Universal Spell Lore
- Doesn’t stack with an element-specific Artifact Lore bonus, such as Flamecleansed’s Fire Lore
Solar Spell Crit Damage: this was the interesting one.
It’s a Legendary bonus type.
Not Artifact. Not Profane. Legendary.
The wiki lists it specifically as Legendary Spell Critical Damage +15%, and Legendary is its own stacking bucket.
So it stacks with your Enhancement, Insightful, Quality, etc. sources of elemental spell critical damage instead of fighting with them for the same slot at the bonus-type dinner table.
There is one wrinkle with the “Sands Elder’s set” example.
There are actually two different things you might be referring to, and naturally DDO makes them behave differently because consistency would be far too relaxing:
- Elder’s Knowledge gives Universal Spell Lore, so it does stack with the Solar gem.
- The Desert’s Biting Sands gives Artifact Kinetic Lore, so it lands in the same Artifact bucket and does not stack.
And, more importantly: thank you, because you found a bug!!
Following your crit-damage question down the rabbit hole uncovered four set bonuses that grant a stat under a name the optimizer currently doesn’t recognize as rankable:
- Elder’s Knowledge at all three tiers
- Deacon of the Auricular Sacrarium
That’s tracked now and will get fixed.
So: your stacking logic was right, the solver is handling the Solar gem correctly, and your question managed to uncover an entirely different problem hiding nearby.
Pretty productive forum post.
Cmecu
Well-known member
Ok so I finally did Trove using Dungeon helper and tried to optimize my gear from what I own. But I must not be doing something right.
Do you happen to have a walk through tutorial of how to work all of this? Maybe make a you tube video of how to use this optimizer for those of us who are too dumb to know how to use it.
Do you happen to have a walk through tutorial of how to work all of this? Maybe make a you tube video of how to use this optimizer for those of us who are too dumb to know how to use it.
Sook
Well-known member
I’d love to make a tutorial. Even cooler: one of you out there makes one. Even better: we both make our own versions and then compare notes on everything we did differently.
I’ll definitely put one together when I get some time. I’ve got a pretty ridiculous amount of international travel queued up over the next couple of weeks, so mine probably won’t appear immediately.
I’ll still be working on and updating the project while I’m traveling. Apparently I’m perfectly willing to debug an optimizer from halfway around the world. Video production, however, is where my technological confidence suddenly falls off a cliff.
EDIT:: I intend to rework the loadout "comparing" functionality, in that pass I intend to refresh the Trove functionality. You're right, its not as smooth and untuitive as it can be. When I dropepd that in, I focused more on the underpinnings than the UI.
About the Bonus Types You Have Corrected field: it's not really clear that 1) After solving, you have the option to change the properties of an item, and 2) You can come back to this field to see what's you've changed.
Also, Sook: you said "
- Skip a bonus type you already have from a character mechanics, or give it the number
and it'll only take gear that beats it"
I don't really know what you're saying here, but I'm hoping it means I can tell the solver "I already have an unnamed +12 Wisdom helm, so beat that".
Also, Sook: you said "
- Skip a bonus type you already have from a character mechanics, or give it the number
and it'll only take gear that beats it"
I don't really know what you're saying here, but I'm hoping it means I can tell the solver "I already have an unnamed +12 Wisdom helm, so beat that".
You can and it is easy to do
Phaedra
Well-known member
With Max level 25 selected, Legendary Gem of Many Facets is recommended as the trinket. and counted towards an epic set bonus
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Dragavon
Well-known member
I just wanted to say thank you for this awesome tool. Much appreciatedI’d love to make a tutorial. Even cooler: one of you out there makes one. Even better: we both make our own versions and then compare notes on everything we did differently.
I’ll definitely put one together when I get some time. I’ve got a pretty ridiculous amount of international travel queued up over the next couple of weeks, so mine probably won’t appear immediately.
I’ll still be working on and updating the project while I’m traveling. Apparently I’m perfectly willing to debug an optimizer from halfway around the world. Video production, however, is where my technological confidence suddenly falls off a cliff.
EDIT:: I intend to rework the loadout "comparing" functionality, in that pass I intend to refresh the Trove functionality. You're right, its not as smooth and untuitive as it can be. When I dropepd that in, I focused more on the underpinnings than the UI.
