Delete Pact Dice from the game, make Warlocks use Imbue Dice instead

[Underflow]

So, foreword: Warlocks suck because gear meant specifically for warlock is inherently parasitic and pointless. Every other limited-access class option can be shared around through at least one ED, but Warlocks continue to be unique in this regard. Thus, my suggestion.

Warlocks now get +1 Imbue Die every even level, and their Pacts now scale 100% off of your Imbue Dice. They also apply to weapon attacks. It always scales with 100% Spell Power. They are now mutually exclusive with other Imbues.

Spiritual Retribution is now +3 Imbue Dice and is not an imbue.

Any effect which would give one or more Pact Dice now give that many Imbue dice instead.

Suddenly, Warlocks are able to play Imbue Spellblade, as well as better plug into existing EDs without requiring an entire redesign.

Suddenly, they're uniquely able to scale well with Shiradi's Imbue scaling.

 

[rabidfox]

Currently warlocks can do blast, pact, and use their imbue all on each blast.

 

[Underflow]

Currently warlocks can do blast, pact, and use their imbue all on each blast.

Which is tied to a single, enhancement in Enlightened Spirit. Most Warlocks are not going to dump 22 points into Enlightened Spirit just to do slightly more damage, when they are highly incentivized to go 41/39 in TS/SE. The floor needs to be raised for them to function properly.

Under my new proposal, you gain slightly more scaling before you take Spiritual Retribution (being able to scale off of imbue gear and racial enhancements) to gaining +3 effective Pact Dice once you do take the enhancement (due to +3 Imbue Dice). You lose zero effective raw damage.

The main loss is the split spellpower (Light instead of whatever you were using before)

On the other hand, by making it a baseline feature tied to Pacts, AOTS actually can scale with Imbue Dice, instead of being even further behind "Real" Warlock.

 

[Smokewolf]

Currently warlocks can do blast, pact, and use their imbue all on each blast.

But these Pact Dice are not treated the same as normal imbue dice. #1 They can not imbue weapons. #2 Can only imbue certain spells / effects to a limited degree.

 

[rabidfox]

But these Pact Dice are not treated the same as normal imbue dice. #1 They can not imbue weapons. #2 Can only imbue certain spells / effects to a limited degree.

That's true. A warlock can do blast dice, pact dice, and imbue dice; with their imbue counting towards blast & weapon attacks but not spells. They are limited to certain degrees. They could change pacts to act as an imbue and remove Enlightened Spirit's imbue. In the grand scheme of things, it would probably be similar overall playwise; there would be some new builds that would min/max imbue dice then using multiclass splits with AotS (if they'd good or just meme builds is a whole other debate).

It still wouldn't offer hexblades, because the blast dice wouldn't be on melee attacks. It'd just be making pacts more generic in nature.

 

[justin credible]

they should consider it a ranged weapon and let it benefit from doubleshot

 

[Xgya]

The problem would be granting them Imbue Dice properly.
It would also give people a look-see to take the first level in Acolyte just so they get access to 2 feats would now all give 2 Imbue Dice (an Epic Feat's amount of dice), while also giving 2 dice at level 1.

Warlocks need help, but this just can't be it.

 

[Visik]

The issue would be others tapping into their massive imbue dice.. unless you put them all in class-specific feats.

Honestly, I don't see an upside to this change.

 

[Ignition]

make all items that give blast die also give pact die and all items that give pact die also give blast die, this would also include item sets and lunar/solar gems, i would also be down for the release of a warlock based epic destiny like how artificer has mechanist, sorc has dragon, wizard has magus and bard has fate singer

 

[Tumideon]

I like the idea, but the gearing changes would be hellacious. They just added pact and imbue die bonuses to some Demogorgon items, not to mention all of our Sun/Moon augs that give pact or blast, that would be a lot of switching around.

That said, I do agree with another poster than anything that gives Pact should give Blast, and vice versa. Having two die is kind of annoying to begin with, and Warlocks really need some love in their trees, class feats, and an ED for them in general - hardly anything except the newest gear gives you dice, you don't pick up a ton in the trees, there aren't feats for them really besides class feat.

Having a flat single die per level of Warlock, 2 in epics, or eat a feat that gives you +2/+3 per level in Epic/Legendary could see their damage floor rise. It's still a great heroic leveler but it wants too many things - unless you're playing an Utterdark Blaster with Evil Pact, you need at least two (plus Potency/USP) spellpowers and lores and intensities and play tetris with Chill/MD/Demogorgon gear and finding the right augs - which let's be frank, +1 Profane to each die is pretty lame.

 

[Underflow]

Frankly, I'm just of the opinion that certain class traits (Pact Dice, Repair Amplification, Negative Amplification) are things to be worked around, not kept as is. Sure, they're great on the classes that can actually leverage them, but the best example is Artificer. It's why I'm frustrated there arent' more combined spellpower/spell lore items.

Artificer sets keep getting Repair Amplification, meaning that if you aren't using Construct Essence, it's a wasted affix. A combined affix for blast/pact dice would be fine, but... well

I specifically wanted to merge Pact and Imbue Dice because:

Warlock becoming the best at using Imbues isn't a bad thing. At best, they'd sit at 20 Imbue Dice at level 20 Warlock, with Core 5 Enlightened Spirit. Sure, that means they do a lot of Imbue damage, but considering how weak both Warlock and Imbue systems both are, I don't see a downside for letting Warlock have their own gimmick (leveraging Imbues better than anyone else). They still don't have a decent weapon tree, meaning that they'd likely go Imbue-Inquis or VKF, meaning that they---horror of horrors---play Inquisitive slightly different than a Rogue, Ranger or Artificer Inquis.

AOTS spending three feats for +6 Imbue Dice is also not really a concern in my eyes: Is three feats for +6d6 Imbue Damage really that impressive?

 

[rabidfox]

Honestly, I don't see an upside to this change.

There's likely upside for some "non-warlocks" that wanted to multiclass a bit of warlock in; there might be some new builds to be found with it. Blaster warlock would basically be the same damage (give or take) if pact dice was made imbue dice instead. As a warlock lover, I'm mostly indifferent to the suggestion as it doesn't help nor hinder me, but it would be dev time that I'd rather be spent on fixing the damage (and other - like the single target blast not being able to hit mobs that are moving sideways or away from me) issues I have with warlock.

 

[ChickenMobile]

I like the idea, but the gearing changes would be hellacious. They just added pact and imbue die bonuses to some Demogorgon items, not to mention all of our Sun/Moon augs that give pact or blast, that would be a lot of switching around.

There could be ways to replace these effects while still being useful to warlocks.
I support this idea

Though I would ask about how the different damage types would work. Blast is force with a bigger die, pact a specific type and es imbue light.

 

[Svirfneblin]

No thank you.

For starters imbues do not go through threat reduction the last thing a warlock needs is a bunch more threat.

I like that pact dice and damage is its separate on thing it’s flavor and it seems correct with that said I would like to have an imbue available without all those points in ES tree for those who would like to use it.

What I really like us more blast and pact dice available throughout the warlock trees and in epic destinies. And better evil spell power in epic destinies. And a warlock specific epic destiny that plays into leans into and boost all the unique things that you see in the warlock class.

Make the epic blast and epic pact feats free and built-in to the class like they used to be.

 

[Smokewolf]

Just delete Warlocks from the game... problem solved!