Devs, please change all metamagic no cost sla/abilities to benonly single target spells!!

The Narc

Well-known member
Epic is certainly not a concern it is easy and legendary easier. But heroic with single target killing is just plain drawl.
 

Xandrah

Angry Elf
This would be a start for ranged and now add something for the ranged artificer, just give one equivalent that goes off like an sla with a burst(similar to fireball base damage or holy smite base damage)starting somewhere around slavers heroic level that has a base damage adjusted just like a spell of similar level with the use of metamagics allowed and can be selected as an element, i mean since elemental weapon spell is now useless. And just like an sla for a spellcaster allow spell power and spell criticals to work on the burst effect. Target takes same damage as an sla fireball would do and everything within the same AOE range as a fireball sla would also take damage. This would allow ranged players to also clear rooms of trash mobs way quicker so questing wasnt so boring in the newer quests with gangs of threatless trash mobs.

Now that some casters are commenting on how arduous it would be if they didnt have room clearing attacks for trash mobs, maybe they can understand why the original suggestion was there to change the way quests were designed, but giving ranged the same ability to clear trash mibs would certaibly be a QOL change for time waisted killing utterly useless mobs, which again leads to the dynamic of why people zerg past and create danger alert which is what the devs say is spiking lag. This could be a win win change.
The more I am reading this whole thread, the less I am understanding of what you want from the game overall. Better quest design? Nerf anything with a spell bar? Have everyone pay money so you can play for free? Not really sure anymore. Otherwise, your observations and ideas could potentially merit some worth.
 

calouscaine

Grouchy Vet
Epic is certainly not a concern it is easy and legendary easier. But heroic with single target killing is just plain drawl.
ok, so basically you just want to level faster then? And you think all casters can level faster than you because they can kill things faster and you think it's unfair? Is that the gist of it? Or am I missing something. I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
ok, so basically you just want to level faster then? And you think all casters can level faster than you because they can kill things faster and you think it's unfair? Is that the gist of it? Or am I missing something. I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
Lol i assume you dont mean to come off snide with that post and that you truly are asking. It comes down to mass targetting for trash mobs versus boring single targeting for ranged missile builds, that are lacking in AOE effects to deal with said mass groups of trash mobs.
 

calouscaine

Grouchy Vet
Lol i assume you dont mean to come off snide with that post and that you truly are asking. It comes down to mass targetting for trash mobs versus boring single targeting for ranged missile builds, that are lacking in AOE effects to deal with said mass groups of trash mobs.
But it doesn't make any sense for a repeater user, or bow user, or knife thrower to some how do massive aoe damage (save for the previously mentioned aa abilities which aren't in game). They're meant to be single target high dps. And with artificer that is certainly the case. With knife throws if you're using the vistani and other tree's that's the case.
With bow users, well, there's not much unless you plan on mixing with wizard and using the eldrich imbues and a few other things. For rogues they can do massive single dps with cross bows.

But I think it still boils down to wanting something which makes it easier for you while refusing to use what's already available. All I am getting from all of this is that others can do something you can't with your current build and you want the entire game to be changed to revolve around your build or play style even if it hurts other play styles or even the minimal amount of balance that's already in game.
I'm sorry, but I don't think there is any pleasing you on this. Present a problem, list reasons why it's a problem with logical reasoning, and then list solutions that benefit the game/community. The only thing I see here is more or less complaining about not having it your way.

And for the record, I can level my arty much faster than my wizard each life. My arty does vastly more damage and more quickly.
I'm not sure how fast you want to level, but you can go from level 1 to level 30 in three days or less (assuming you have the time) regardless of class. If you want to go faster then that, well, just ask for otto's boxes to return and pull out your wallet.
 
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Kimbere

Well-known member
I recently took my favored soul and reincarnated him as a sorceror to pound out 3 sorceror past lives. I was well equipped and went with the nuker dragonborn fire sorceror. Fire casting hot bar at level 18 ... ( I had a seperate hot bar for lightning and sonic )

Burning Hands SLA ( used metas ) / Scorch SLA ( used all metas )
Scorch ( no metas ) / Dragonborn breath ( used what metas it allowed )
Fireball ( no metas ) / Delayed blast fireball ( no metas )
Fireball SLA ( used all metas )
Fire bolt ( no metas ) / Meteor Swarm ( quicken only )
Scorching Ray ( no metas )

I had well over 2000 sp but I still needed to not use metas on all non-SLA spells. Maximize, Empower. Didn't add that much damage.
Delayed Blast and Meteor Swarm ( without metas ) were still my heavy hitters with the SLAs as backups. Even at lower levels before I got those spells no meta normal casting of fireball and scorch didn't do significantly less damage than the SLA versions. ( and could be cast more often )

Your change wouldn't stop him from room clearing and turn him into a single target caster. It wouldn't even slow him down that much.
This.

Might take two SLAs instead of one, but in the grand scheme of things, an extra 4-8 spell points isn't that big a deal. Metamagics are not the problem nor the solution.
 

Eltronin

Kobolds don't matter. *Except in Crystal Cove.
Lol i assume you dont mean to come off snide with that post and that you truly are asking. It comes down to mass targetting for trash mobs versus boring single targeting for ranged missile builds, that are lacking in AOE effects to deal with said mass groups of trash mobs.
So then you want AOE for ranged? So how does nerfing AOE for casters help with that? How about Buff Ranged to Equal Melee and Casters? I have followed this post and read your responses and you are all over the board. Pick one thing you want and stick with it, don't change just because someone comes with a good argument against your idea. You want Caster SLAs nerfed, You want game balance, you want ranged AOE. Please stay on a subject of what you want and arguments for it, don't keep flipping around.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
So then you want AOE for ranged? So how does nerfing AOE for casters help with that? How about Buff Ranged to Equal Melee and Casters? I have followed this post and read your responses and you are all over the board. Pick one thing you want and stick with it, don't change just because someone comes with a good argument against your idea. You want Caster SLAs nerfed, You want game balance, you want ranged AOE. Please stay on a subject of what you want and arguments for it, don't keep flipping around.
Actually i am quite open to suggestions hence why i have flipped to different options during this thread, either do something to douse the gang mobs of threatless hit point sacks for single target or let everyone play in that painful or design quests without those threatless gangs of hit point sacks. All seem good options just open to find a way to make it not so boring, shoot 12-15 shots kill mob move on to next mob do the same great only 6 more to go in this pack, open door oh no another pack of these useless mobs.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
This.

Might take two SLAs instead of one, but in the grand scheme of things, an extra 4-8 spell points isn't that big a deal. Metamagics are not the problem nor the solution.
So what is the problem and the solution kimbere, i know you spend plenty of time endgame r10 raiding, but what is your perspective on a solution?
 

Kimbere

Well-known member
So what is the problem and the solution kimbere, i know you spend plenty of time endgame r10 raiding, but what is your perspective on a solution?
Better non-raid content design that doesn't favor mass AoE DPS 95% of the time.

Less dungeons where every room is filled entirely with large numbers of low-hp trash mobs. Replace a good portion of the trash mob groups with 1 or 2 high-hp/defense mini-boss style mobs throughout the dungeons that give single-target builds a place to shine.

For an added bonus, give said mini-bosses random, large amounts of immunity to a magic type and/or physical damage type. This would add a bit of variety to the dungeon crawls in addition to adding some appeal back to single-target DPS builds.
 

calouscaine

Grouchy Vet
Better non-raid content design that doesn't favor mass AoE DPS 95% of the time.

Less dungeons where every room is filled entirely with large numbers of low-hp trash mobs. Replace a good portion of the trash mob groups with 1 or 2 high-hp/defense mini-boss style mobs throughout the dungeons that give single-target builds a place to shine.

For an added bonus, give said mini-bosses random, large amounts of immunity to a magic type and/or physical damage type. This would add a bit of variety to the dungeon crawls in addition to adding some appeal back to single-target DPS builds.
Some of this can be achieved by raising the difficulty level of a dungeon, especially the immunity, resistance, and damage out put of mobs.
Part of the issue currently is that mobs some how can see through walls and floors now, and if an alert goes off (7 or more creatures see you), then they can and usually will bum rush you from multiple sections of a dungeon.
That aside, doing dungeons on normal mode should be a cake walk for anyone, regardless of build or class.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
Some of this can be achieved by raising the difficulty level of a dungeon, especially the immunity, resistance, and damage out put of mobs.
Part of the issue currently is that mobs some how can see through walls and floors now, and if an alert goes off (7 or more creatures see you), then they can and usually will bum rush you from multiple sections of a dungeon.
That aside, doing dungeons on normal mode should be a cake walk for anyone, regardless of build or class.
None of what kimbere said had anything to do with groups of mobs coming from different location.

Dungeon difficulty level wasnt even mentioned in his post either but i assume you have played the game long enough to know that the new quests designs with large groups of mobs room after room only happen once you are running elite or higher with scaling.

Maybe you are just running normal which is why you are missing the point of the original post and the entire thread about the issues with quest design and large groups of hit point sacks which maybe fun for AOE casters(the meta these dungeons are designed for) and single target missile builds.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
None of what kimbere said had anything to do with groups of mobs coming from different location.

Dungeon difficulty level wasnt even mentioned in his post either but i assume you have played the game long enough to know that the new quests designs with large groups of mobs room after room only happen once you are running elite or higher with scaling.

Maybe you are just running normal which is why you are missing the point of the original post and the entire thread about the issues with quest design and large groups of hit point sacks which maybe fun for AOE casters(the meta these dungeons are designed for) and single target missile builds.
What you really seem to want is for pack scaling for melee when solo to be smaller; so you'd likely be well off asking the devs to treat the scaling of elite/r1 to take into account if someone is solo and melee.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
What you really seem to want is for pack scaling for melee when solo to be smaller; so you'd likely be well off asking the devs to treat the scaling of elite/r1 to take into account if someone is solo and melee.
Yeah honestly that would work for me, i couldnt care less what big AOE casters are doing in their groups, but i dont want all the dungeons to be designed to pose a challenge to those metas, so now i am forced as a single target build to chip thru all these completely threatless and useless groups of mobs.

You see i am not about attacking the AOE casters, i am about attacking the existence of them creating dungeon design that is arduously tedious for single target missile builds(not melee although some melee may feel the same way), that is why as some people suggested that i flipped my concept mid thread, because yes i would be jusy as content if you give missile some form of AOE attack that could also clear these utterly useless trash mobs.

Just looking for a solution to this form of boringness and tediousness.
 

Dandonk

Beater of Dead Horses
Yeah honestly that would work for me, i couldnt care less what big AOE casters are doing in their groups, but i dont want all the dungeons to be designed to pose a challenge to those metas, so now i am forced as a single target build to chip thru all these completely threatless and useless groups of mobs.

Now this I can get behind. For a long time we've had too much of the dungeon building where there are so many mobs in each dungeon that I'm starting to wonder where the air flow pipes are, because seriously, with so many mobs in enclosed spaces, they should be suffocating due to lack of oxygen.

Building more balanced dungeons so single target DPS gets a place again would be very good, and past time at that.
 

Fulchrum

Member
+1 here to adding a couple high damage AoEs to Archery/Marksman trees. I'm probably not part of the majority but I prefer it when every playstyle is equally viable in all content.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
In order for that you need a great reset equalize everything for all builds then cut all power by 50 percent to start

Barbs with aoe cleaves and sprint boost blow the doors off with unlimited dps potential
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
+1 here to adding a couple high damage AoEs to Archery/Marksman trees. I'm probably not part of the majority but I prefer it when every playstyle is equally viable in all content.
But then the devs have to balance out the single target (and IPS) capabilities from them which hurts other people's builds. Pushing everything towards the middle of "do it all, but just do it all okay" doesn't help.
Want lots of ranged AoE for clearing trash? Make an AoE nuker
Want situational AoE/strong single target ranged? Bow/thrower/xbow
etc. etc. etc.
Not everything should excel in all things.
 
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