Dhampir: Would love to hear some thoughts.

Blacksun

Well-known member
IMO it was a bit upset

Undead form require some points on racial tree. (Not inherited)
The only racial advantage is no underwater
Breath bar(no skill, no proficiency)
Bite has charges which isnt nice, since there is some mechanics around it....that wont b worth it to use cuz the charges.
Dash(swarm of bats) require target...which makes it less appealing.

Liked the buff from stats after u bite is really nice. Would preffer more time scalling like 2 min...but maybe is fine if u can get the bite charges back. Or give 2 bites attacks (thirst bite - heal, lacerating bite-Damage)
And more negative amp on the tree would b cool
Dont think positive heal is necessary...would buff bite and remove the positive heal....tell me what u think
 
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ACJ97F

Well-known member
Just another cash grab, IMO they butchered the Dhampir completely compared to DnD. If they spent a fraction of the time on bugs
they use on hamster-wheels to bleed the whales, they'd be able to at least claim they tried.
 

Elminster

Sage of Shadowdale
I really don’t understand the Dev thinking here:

1.) on one hand I understand the desire for balance (BUT IN THIS INSTANCE IT’s UNDER-POWERED!)

2.) but I’m like Devs… my dudes… just make it super-OP it’s OK. Think about the sales $$$ (and you guys paychecks). It’s cool, we’ll forgive you when later on you nerf it or whatever.

Like stuff like this is a soft-“pay2win” kinda opportunity. It’s not in-your-face and everyone has access to it pretty much.

I really want Lamordia to explode and gain some notoriety for the game.

Come on, we can do it !
 

Elminster

Sage of Shadowdale
Ultimately, the main problem with this race is that nothing really scales with anything… so it’s pretty useless race especially at endgame.
 

SquireZed

Well-known member
I think my problem with the bite specifically (to leave off every other thought for now because I haven't had a good chance to sit down and theorycraft/build things out for builds as a whole) is that having a racial feature tied to charges feels bad when it's so thematic to the character. I get that Aasimar have to have limited charges for their healing for balance reasons (well, in theory, I'm not sure that it's actually the big balance pain point for DDO but we can leave that conversation for another time) but not having even just a damage based bite attack makes me somewhat dubious about the usefulness. There's a little bit of the flavor coming back in on the melee vampirism later in the tree, but it's a bit lacking IMO.

I would rather have the bite be on an extended cooldown. Unlike healing hands, you can't just spam it out of combat- needing a hostile target really does prevent a lot of possible balance problems with someone just sitting out cooldowns for "free" healing. As is, you have kind of a weird economy where you kind of want to save it for burst healing in big fights but with just two-five charges you can't really sustain with it. One of the abilities in the tree even pushes towards spreading out the charges, which is fine but it really makes me wonder like, when do you use this? When you come up on a champion you don't want to deal with? Especially since there are three abilities in the tree that are designed to be useful built around using the bite to either buff yourself or debuff enemies, these basically become worthless for the remainder of the quest when you're either saving charges or out from using them already.

How I would change it:
Vampiric Bite is a default 1 minute cooldown. I'm not sure about touching the healing, I know it's potentially a lot but I'm not sure a spike of healing once a minute is particularly powerful, especially since vast categories of creatures you'll often fight will not proc it (undead, constructs, etc.- all of which are pretty common in DDO). If you want to nerf it a bit I'm fine with it, I'm just saying that I am not entirely convinced that "it would be OP on a cooldown" is true when you compare it to other sources of self healing, given you have less control over when/how to proc it than a direct healing ability and that some quests won't proc it at all.
Change the cores that give extra charges to 5 second cooldown reductions. Don't want it to be too short at the end, but it should feel meaty enough to be worth the investment.
Draining Bite is good as is, I don't think a negative level +1 per 5 character levels is broken every minute, if someone does think so I'd be interested to hear the specific concerns.
Lifeblood duration reduced to something like 15 seconds to account for the change from charges to cooldowns. 12 seconds would be a little weak IMO, and 20 a little strong, but 15 gives you 25% "optimized" uptime at default cooldown which feels a bit strong still. Perhaps, since the ability is already tiered for +1/2/3, the duration could be tiered 6/12/18 or something like that. Or set the bonus to +2 and have the duration be the only thing that changes.
Ascendant Bite is *probably* still fine- save or die is powerful but one every 60-45 seconds is not crazy considering how many monsters you would want to use it on are immune either because they're bosses or they're not living.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the bite specifically. There are probably other things in Dhampir I would change but at that point we're spinning a bunch of plates. I think the idea is interesting and I think there are some neat options for detaching undead forms from Pale Master with, for example, Dark Acolyte. I'm not sure the tree itself quite supports an undead form build beyond soloing/undead party comp but it is a possibility to do some shenangians if you play in a group bringing a Pale Master. Anyway, I think in general I'm interested in it, I think it's one of the more interesting new races, but I do think it's really not powerful on its own, and the rather limited scaling (as other people have mentioned) and extremely constrained core feature basically just makes this a plausible "no negative stat" pick for STR builds with an option to dip into a little self heal from Embrace Death if you are willing to sacrifice some positive healing from other sources.
 

Elminster

Sage of Shadowdale
What if the bite can last longer the more able you are to hang on.

That is, maybe it’s determined by a mini-game as soon as you make contact with the initial bite you can keep draining (until death) as long as you make the proper saves and are skillful with the mini-game.
 

Mary

Well-known member
As a writer and a lore nerd who geeks out over secondary worlds like they’re my morning coffee, it drives me up the wall that Dungeons & Dragons Online is skippin’ basic, iconic races and species for stuff like Dhampir that nobody asked for. I’m talkin’ races that are baked into D&D’s soul, not some obscure Ravenloft pull that feels like it wandered in from a waterworks fanfic.

When I first heard “Dhampir,” I legit thought it was a meme, like someone was trollin’ the forums with a fake race. Turns out, it’s a real thing from Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft, a half-vampire species. But, like, hold up: is “vampire” even a species now? Is it? Its a race now? Somewhere out there are vampires hanging upsidedown in a cave raving on blood like vampire bats? Nah, it’s a state of being in a world full of bad writing. Present D&D pen and paper lore books are full of terribad writing.

I am a writer. Who do I think is a good writer? Tolkien. Look at Lord of the Rings, Sauron didn’t cook up a new “wraith race” with the Ringwraiths. Those were humans, cursed into servitude. Aragorn lays it down: “They used to be men.” Same with Strahd in Ravenloft, he was a living man, then got slapped with a curse by the Dark Powers. Callin’ Dhampir a 'race' feels like callin’ a werewolf a species instead of a blood-curse. Lycanthropy is a blood-curse. This whole new normal of bad writing creates stories hinged on false premises, and as a storyteller, that grinds my gears. Its lazy. Its dumb. Its cringe.

I get that D&D has flirted with this before, take Eberron’s shifters. They’re similar to lycanthropes, with some beastly vibes, but they’re not blood-cursed; they’re a distinct Eberron species with their own lore, tied to the plane’s primal magic, which ultimately is tied to the Draconic Prophecy. No blood curse, no full-moon fear. Shifters work because they’re native to Eberron’s worldbuilding. Dhampir? It’s just a vampire curse dressed up as a species, and it feels lazy. Its bad writing. This is not DDO's problem but D&D as a whole. D&D has a problem with some very bad writing.

Here’s what I’d implement for DDO instead, races that actually fit the setting:

Changelings and Kalashtar for Eberron: These are Eberron staples. Changelings, with their shape-shifting shenanigans, are perfect for intrigue-heavy campaigns in Sharn. Kalashtar, with their psionic dream-vibes, tie into the Quori and the Inspired. They’re iconic, flavorful, and players would eat ‘em up like a dragon on a gold hoard.

Duergar and Underdark Drow for the Forgotten Realms: Faerûn’s got that gritty underdark lore, with Duergar dwarves schemin’ in their grim forges and Drow causin’ chaos in Menzoberranzan. These races are D&D classics, rooted in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes. They’d fit DDO’s vibe like a vorpal sword.

Githyanki for the Baldur’s Gate 3 crowd: Let’s be real BG3 is still poppin’ off across every metric, from Steam charts to X posts. Githyanki, with their astral-plane swagger and psionic powers, are a no-brainer to pull in that fanbase. They’re in Mordenkainen’s and have deep Planescape roots. Why pass on that hype?

Dhampir? I wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot polearm. It’s a niche Ravenloft pick that doesn’t fit DDO’s broader Eberron and Forgotten Realms focus. I’m still in disbelief it made the cut, but I guess nobody cares what I think. Y’all agree, or am I just wrong? Let me know. See ya.
 

The_Human_Cypher

Well-known member
Dhampir is a good idea for a DDO player race, it just needs to be implemented properly. There's time in the future for a Githyanki player race, etc.
 

woq

Well-known member
Dhampir makes sense if you look at it from "They wanted to make a Ravenloft expansion, and need a race that fits that" -perspective. And expansion to Ravenloft has been requested for... well, since Ravenloft - it was so damn good.

If you think about races, then kalashtar , changelings, duergar, underdark drow, githyanki, goliath are more interesting. But I'm not sure I'd be as excited about those types of expansions compared to more Ravenloft - even if it's never gonna be as good as og Ravenloft due to that being a colossal undertaking.

Well, an expansion to Underdark could be great and introducing duergar with it.
 

Elminster

Sage of Shadowdale
I love vampires and I think this was the only way they could’ve brought it to DDO as a playable opportunity.

My character is going to Role-play a whole “how I got turned” week in-game with my guildies when Dhampir comes out, including getting another guildie to act out “Mister Grigsby” who has bought passage onto our airship and resides on the empty airship floor but only comes out at night for some reason … hmmm strange.

Bad writing… world is filled with bad writers I’m afraid including a lot of writers who think they’re good but ..meh. That’s the problem of Hollywood right now, extremely bad writing. FX, acting, and even money isn’t the issue… it’s the writing, writing, and writing that sucks.
 

GramercyRiff

Active member
I don't like the tree. I do like the race visually. Tons of options at creation. I'm fine with the race existing, especially in conjunction with Ravenloft, but vampires shouldn't really be a race. It's an acquired affliction/blessing one receives. This doesn't really matter to me though. It's not a big deal.

My dislike of the tree remains though. Fortunately there's some stuff like Sneak Attack dice and MRR to spend racial points on, so if they don't want to make a cool Vamrpire tree that's on them. Hopefully the bat rush ability will operate more like Abundant Step when it's said and done.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
It's not like D&D invented dhampir, the concept of a half vampire has existed in plenty of other sources and has its roots in albanian folklore, the word itself is actually older than vampire and the root word that vampire comes from.
 
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