Do Gxbows need a BUFF?

[Bjond]

65% ranged attack speed in heroic levels. Not sure how high it will get in Epic. It needs the base damage to do more

Ignore the %haste; look at the actual bolts fired. Even with EF and Mechanic T5, GXbow does not compare to repeater rate-of-fire. Yeah, ROF is only one balance point, you could increase per-hit values, but the GXbow profile is insufficient compared to repeater; 15x5 at best v 16x5 is an 11% gain, but only on weapon damage and it doesn't compare to repeater's higher overall ROF that boosts the entire damage line.

Conceptually, improving traps is a route that could work, but they need to get practical and fix lobbing physics first. Until lobbing is fun, fast, and reliable with zero interruption of the firing flow there's no point in using it.

 

[Jasparius]

Ignore the %haste; look at the actual bolts fired. Even with EF and Mechanic T5, GXbow does not compare to repeater rate-of-fire. Yeah, ROF is only one balance point, you could increase per-hit values, but the GXbow profile is insufficient compared to repeater; 15x5 at best v 16x5 is an 11% gain, but only on weapon damage and it doesn't compare to repeater's higher overall ROF that boosts the entire damage line.

Conceptually, improving traps is a route that could work, but they need to get practical and fix lobbing physics first. Until lobbing is fun, fast, and reliable with zero interruption of the firing flow there's no point in using it.

Its also the doubleshot I guess. Mechanic doesnt get a lot of that. Attack speed and Sneak attack dice seem to be the big 2. The lobbing traps arent bad. They do reasonable damage but not crazy damage.

Time Bomb is the one which at level 14 hits a huge area for around 2,800 damage per mob. Its also bugged at the moment (or the tooltip is wrong) in terms of the cooldown.

The big advantage that a higher base damage would be because a repeater often over-kills mobs because the 1st or 2nd bolt may kill it but all 3 will still fire.

 

[DDO Noob]

Great Xbows definitely need some buffs with a bit of consideration and thought rather than just the rushed decision to swtich around C5 and T5 abilities as a quick bandage. The improvements to the alchemical traps are welcome even if the CDs are still far too high. If the devs don't want to think about it much, then either give them something similar to other crossbow builds like Endless Fusilade, or alternatively just give them the same buffs that shortbow and longbow have. The second option is the better one.

 

[Chacka]

I don’t understand why all non-repeating crossbows don’t receive, in principle, the same improvements as bows for Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, and Point Blank Shot.

My biggest issue with Rogue Mechanic is that you have to take Artificer levels in order to access the tier-5 enhancements and obtain something similar to Endless Fusillade (Artificer Battle Engineer) or No Holds Barred (Inquisitive). I think abilities like these could be part of the Rogue Mechanic tree, or the tier requirement for No Holds Barred in the Inquisitive tree could be lowered so that it becomes part of the level-20 capstone enhancement. I would also like to see almost all Inquisitive enhancements affect great crossbows—of course with the exception that you should not “dual-wield” great crossbows.

I also don’t understand why Rogue Mechanics don’t get Intelligence to hit or an Intelligence-based Battle Trance and instead have to dip into the Harper tree to obtain this.

In my opinion, these improvements would be just enough for a Rogue Mechanic to keep up with Inquisitive and shuriken builds. As an additional improvement for bows, I would suggest more charges for Manyshot and a shorter cooldown, so that all ranged classes are roughly equally strong but still feel distinct.

 

[Faith]

Great Xbows definitely need some buffs with a bit of consideration and thought rather than just the rushed decision to swtich around C5 and T5 abilities as a quick bandage. The improvements to the alchemical traps are welcome even if the CDs are still far too high. If the devs don't want to think about it much, then either give them something similar to other crossbow builds like Endless Fusilade, or alternatively just give them the same buffs that shortbow and longbow have. The second option is the better one.

I'm very open to Gxbow having the same buffs as short and longbow have, over that fusilade or no holds barred stuff. We don't need another machine gunner crossbow when there is already 2. Just need to hit hard and crit hard.

 

[Ying]

Yep. Everyone keeps saying give it No Holds Barred or Fusilade....no. Those should not even work with Gxbow.

You have no control over this. Deal with the reality of the game. There's plenty of "shoulds" in this game, but given SSG's track record don't hold your breath.

It needs it's base damage improved.

Now you're trolling. Gxbow has the highest base damage of any weapon in the game. It also starts with 18-20 crit range, so you get 15-20 with Improve Critical feat.

The only thing lacking from Mechanic (aka the gxbow tree) is an EF/NHB equivalent. Until it gets one, you have to go into Battle Engineer for it.

Gxbow works perfectly fine in R10 Legendary content. A guildy soloed Saltmarsh R10 with it, using Battle Engineer and Mechanic trees.

 

[Faith]

You have no control over this. Deal with the reality of the game. There's plenty of "shoulds" in this game, but given SSG's track record don't hold your breath.



Now you're trolling. Gxbow has the highest base damage of any weapon in the game. It also starts with 18-20 crit range, so you get 15-20 with Improve Critical feat.

The only thing lacking from Mechanic (aka the gxbow tree) is an EF/NHB equivalent. Until it gets one, you have to go into Battle Engineer for it.

Gxbow works perfectly fine in R10 Legendary content. A guildy soloed Saltmarsh R10 with it, using Battle Engineer and Mechanic trees.

"The only thing lacking from Mechanic (aka the gxbow tree) is an EF/NHB equivalent. Until it gets one, you have to go into Battle Engineer for it."

Does this not mean something is wrong with Mechanic and Gxbow, if we have to multiclass 4 levels of arti , or spend 30 points in inquisitive, and can't play pure 20 mechanic rogue? Doesn't this mean it needs a buff? lol

"Gxbow works perfectly fine in R10 Legendary content. A guildy soloed Saltmarsh R10 with it, using Battle Engineer and Mechanic trees."

Is your guildy pure 20 Gxbow rogue soling R10 legendary, or multiclass using fusilade or no holds barred? Can you tell us your guildy's build?

 

[Ying]

Does this not mean something is wrong with Mechanic and Gxbow, if we have to multiclass 4 levels of arti , or spend 30 points in inquisitive, and can't play pure 20 mechanic rogue? Doesn't this mean it needs a buff? lol

You're hung up about playing "pure" rather than being effective. The lack of EF/NHB has been brought up repeatedly. Spamming threads isn't going to endear yourselves with the devs or the players.

Is your guildy pure 20 Gxbow rogue soling R10 legendary, or multiclass using fusilade or no holds barred? Can you tell us your guildy's build?

I'm not posting another person's build and fielding all the questions for it. I already deal with that for my own builds, and it's a thankless job.

If you can't do R10 legendary content using a gxbow, it's a PEBKAC issue. I play a first life 12 Arti/7 Rog/1 Barb that's got 40+ reaper points by doing R10s. Perhaps spend more time elevating your gameplay rather than your post count.

 

[Faith]

I'm not posting another person's build and fielding all the questions for it. I already deal with that for my own builds, and it's a thankless job.

Well, i wanna thank you for your rogue horizon walker build, and i think it was great. I played it myself.

If you can't do R10 legendary content using a gxbow, it's a PEBKAC issue. I play a first life 12 Arti/7 Rog/1 Barb that's got 40+ reaper points by doing R10s. Perhaps spend more time elevating your gameplay rather than your post count.

Rogues are amazing on their own, and i enjoy playing them, but mechanic is weak and ineffective. We should not have to make it a hybrid, to make it "effective" as you say.

How about we work together, be productive, and keep pushing for enhancement pass changes that are much needed? If you take a look at the votes , many people are thinking the same thing. Let's hope the devs will notice as we keep reaching out to them.

 

[Jasparius]

You have no control over this. Deal with the reality of the game. There's plenty of "shoulds" in this game, but given SSG's track record don't hold your breath.



Now you're trolling. Gxbow has the highest base damage of any weapon in the game. It also starts with 18-20 crit range, so you get 15-20 with Improve Critical feat.

The only thing lacking from Mechanic (aka the gxbow tree) is an EF/NHB equivalent. Until it gets one, you have to go into Battle Engineer for it.

Gxbow works perfectly fine in R10 Legendary content. A guildy soloed Saltmarsh R10 with it, using Battle Engineer and Mechanic trees.

Which means you cant go pure Rogue. If a class only works when you take 2 or 4 levels of something else then I dont think you can say it works perfectly fine.

 

[Mechgraber]

Let's hope the devs will notice as we keep reaching out to them.

I'd say there's a lower chance of them making changes when someone posts multiple threads on the exact same thing within days.

 

[rabidfox]

Which means you cant go pure Rogue. If a class only works when you take 2 or 4 levels of something else then I dont think you can say it works perfectly fine.

Well, the premise of this thread was does "GXB need a buff?" Kensei has GXB stuff. Battle Engineer is any xbow. It sounds like the thread should've been called "Do pure 20 Mechanic builds need a buff to work better with GXB?" instead based off some these posts.

 

[Bjond]

repeater often over-kills mobs because the 1st or 2nd bolt may kill it but all 3 will still fire.

This is about the only practical use I've found for IPS these days. Hunt's End applies to each of the 3x shots. So, first bolt kills one, second kills another, 3rd kills another. With PS, 2nd & 3rd bolt try to kill the same dead target over and over again.

Does this not mean something is wrong with Mechanic and Gxbow, if we have to multiclass 4 levels of arti

It's a value judgment. I've never played a pure class or wanted to play one. I view multiclassing as part of making a character do what I want rather than what the devs decided. Worst case, I get irked when I have to "shop around" too much; eg. good Trance and Boost are often missing from old trees.

For example, I love the 3 Swash splash. I don't think Bard or Swash are broken because it's rarely taken past T3. Instead I'm glad it only needs 11 AP and 3 Levels.

Mechanic, however, is a bad splash and a bad tree. It's cores are mostly pointless; only C5 is useful and it likely belongs down around C2 or C3. Most of the tree is junk. The unique attack line is contruct-only and thus worthless. The trap features rely on lobbing physics, which badly need fixing for speed, reliability, range, and fluid play -- it's 30 AP wasted to unlock the useful nodes and then the T5 fails to deliver. After all that AP, your character doesn't perform as well as a repeater, INQ, or shuriken ranged.

Despite GXbow badly needing help, I'd still fix it last of "the things that need fixing": casters and lobbing physics (which could make alchemists MUCH more fun and help GXbow), then rangers (aa+tempest), last gxbow. Tempest & Gxbow last because despite not competing, there are still v.good twf & xbow builds.

It would be nice if every tree worked both for splashing and as a full tree; Kensei is an example of that. Mechanic is one of the sad lonely trees, unwanted as either splash or full.

 

[Jasparius]

Well, the premise of this thread was does "GXB need a buff?" Kensei has GXB stuff. Battle Engineer is any xbow. It sounds like the thread should've been called "Do pure 20 Mechanic builds need a buff to work better with GXB?" instead based off some these posts.

How many Kensai and Artificers are choosing GXB as their weapon? Less than 1%? Less than 0.1%? Is it because 99% or 99.9% of people are doing it wrong and should be going GXB ?

Once your guildie finished running a few R10 dungeons did they switch to something else? Or stay? And if they switched, did they switch to RXB or DXB?

 

[Lacci]

Your opinion counts, but you should play it in R10/ Legendary Elite, and tell me if it's still fine, when trying to keep up with all other ranged builds. No disrespect to you.

Well, I played it in legendary elite all the way up to lvl 34. But in R10, any other build of mine would suck as well, so that wouldn´t prove anything.
Personally, I don´t care about DPS or keeping up with other builds. I´m just saying I enjoyed the great crossbow build and it didn´t feel lacking to me (maybe aside from the alchemical traps, but they already received a buff apparently).

 

[rabidfox]

How many Kensai and Artificers are choosing GXB as their weapon? Less than 1%? Less than 0.1%? Is it because 99% or 99.9% of people are doing it wrong and should be going GXB ?

Once your guildie finished running a few R10 dungeons did they switch to something else? Or stay? And if they switched, did they switch to RXB or DXB?

That's really neither here nor there. Some folks are hung up on mechanic tree only (which is fine, the tree needs help for GXB), but if it's all about GBX then other classes/trees/multiclassing is also a thing that some folks seem to want to write-off (like saying it doesn't count if you have to splash /4 arti to make GXB work).

 

[Haphazard]

I just did a Rogue Mechanic life with GXB (well, I tried to) and it was slow going. I told myself I wouldn't TR as soon as I hit 20 but I did. It was a grind. This was before the latest changes. GXBs and Bows need some inherent AOE capability, maybe through feats, like the equivalent of Cleave. Perhaps alchemical grenades make things a bit easier now but..... That's not a GXB.

Often, when levelling, I found myself using the Inq tree and dual xbowing telling myself "just another level like this and I'll switch back". I did do exclusively from 13-20 with GXB though.

Being top DPS or levelling fast are not the only things that matter in the game but the difference between this and the previous life on an arti and subsequent life as a DL Bear were stark. I cannot tell you how much kiting I did. If it had been symphony of the kites I would have filled every one twice over.

Hap

 

[magaiti]

I'm a huge fan of Fusillade + GXBow builds and I don't want GXbows to be changed to not work with Fusillade.
If you want big buffs for pure (no-fusillade) builds, just make Fusillade/NHB an antirequisite for those enhancements.

 

[Faith]

Personally, I don´t care about DPS or keeping up with other builds. I´m just saying I enjoyed the great crossbow build and it didn´t feel lacking to me

Hey champ, i noticed you said you don't care about DPS or keeping up with other builds like inquisitive and shuriken.

Nothing wrong with how you play the game, however, what about us who DO care about dps, and keeping up with other builds in the hardest content?

Does our experience not matter, and only your satisfaction matters?

What about all the people who voted yes?

 

[Lacci]

Hey champ, i noticed you said you don't care about DPS or keeping up with other builds like inquisitive and shuriken.

Nothing wrong with how you play the game, however, what about us who DO care about dps, and keeping up with other builds in the hardest content?

Just answering your question:

What do you guys think?

I just think that not every build/class has to achieve the same amount of DPS, nor do I think that DPS should be the only metric to be counted.

Does our experience not matter, and only your satisfaction matters?

What about all the people who voted yes?

Where did I say or imply that ?
Everyone is welcome to disagree with me.