Dodge Roll Rating - A fix for dodge

[Shear-buckler]

The problems with dodge are well known. The more you stack it the more efficient it gets. This significantly limits all design space around dodge and requires artifical caps. Adding any new source of dodge cap will always be a massive boost to high dodge builds and a small boost at best to low dodge builds and be generally impractical to balance.

It is also way too strong in high difficulties and many of are expecting the reaper dodge-nerf to arrive sooner rather than later.

My suggestion is to replace all dodge bonuses with "dodge roll rating" (DRR) which would be a new stat that mimics PRR. Also remove the dodge cap stat completely. In the process dodge numbers would be generally increased across the board and new sources added.

The math would be Chance to dodge = 1-100/(DRR+100).

That would make dodge a linearly scaling stat with great returns at every level. It would generally be a buff to most characters and a nerf only to the builds that stack it the highest and a nerf to dodge clickies.

Full disclosure: My character for the last months is a 90% dodge monk.

 

[Abramax]

That would make dodge a linearly scaling stat with great returns at every level.

I would like to know how 10% dodge becoming 9% dodge and 90% dodge becoming 48% dodge is a "great returns at every level" ?



That s called a nerf

 

[Shear-buckler]

I would like to know how 10% dodge becoming 9% dodge and 90% dodge becoming 48% dodge is a "great returns at every level" ?



That s called a nerf

Well obviously dodge numbers would be changed, and they could easily be so without risking to cause major imbalance. New sources of dodge should be added too.

It would be much easier to place characters at 20-50% dodge but harder to attain higher values.

It is indeed a nerf for high dodge. High dodge is OP and will be nerfed regardless.

 

[DBZ]

And what no nerfs to heal amp or prr or mrr i wonder

All the dodge builds just tr then

 

[Eme]

I don't agree that's entirely true.
To get high dodge you end up compromising on damage and other stats tremendously, as a tradeoff. Sure your dodge is crazy high but your damage is crazy low- type thing., and it's up to the player to decide where in that bracket they find the most useful for themselves.
I think nerfing it to such an extent seriously compromises entire classes and playstyle variety towards a narrower and more bland view of the game.

 

[Shear-buckler]

And what no nerfs to heal amp or prr or mrr i wonder

All the dodge builds just tr then

Okay I see, I should have explained better.

Other avoidance stats like displace and ethereal are reduced by a flat amount in reaper. That makes low values of them completely useless.
The dodge nerf that is definitely coming, because it is really OP, and was floated on lamannia did essentially the same thing.

With my suggestion no such nerf is needed and dodge retains its usefulness even for builds that dont go all-in.

It also opens up a lot of design space for new sources of dodge when they dont have to be supercareful not to break the game every time they touch a dodge bonus.

 

[DBZ]

Your nerfing dodge into the dirt fine im just going to tr or a max prr build done

Need to nerf those 2 basically

 

[minamber]

Well obviously dodge numbers would be changed, and they could easily be so without risking to cause major imbalance. New sources of dodge should be added too.

It would be much easier to place characters at 20-50% dodge but harder to attain higher values.

It is indeed a nerf for high dodge. High dodge is OP and will be nerfed regardless.

If the devs felt high dodge was OP, they'd have changed it when they reworked monks, since those are the ones with highest dodge AFAIK.

Asking for a nerf because you feel high dodge is OP is ridiculous when so many other things in the game are OP, and have been for a while now. Honestly, it's starting to feel like the devs have pretty much given up on balance. Maybe if they ever manage to fix the lag and other problems, they'll look at rebalancing the game, but I think that's a long ways off if it ever happens.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Your nerfing dodge into the dirt fine im just going to tr or a max prr build done

Need to nerf those 2 basically

Only high dodge builds should be nerfed. The low end should be lifted up.

 

[DBZ]

Except armor just gets that much stronger

Robes without stances aren't that great

 

[Shear-buckler]

Except armor just gets that much stronger

Robes without stances aren't that great

Exactly, and with this suggestion they can far more easily make robes more competitive. Stacking dodge is so powerful right now that they have to keep all individual sources way down. With this suggestion they can eaily make 100 DRR, or 50% dodge, the baseline for robe users without breaking the game.

 

[DBZ]

50 mrr caps half the dodge no thanks

Med armor best of eveything

 

[Shear-buckler]

50 mrr caps half the dodge no thanks

Med armor best of eveything

With this suggestion the average light/robe user could get more dodge, not less. Only the high end of 70-90% dodge would be brought down a notch, as it should.

 

[Shear-buckler]

For example:
Cloth gets DRR equal to 2x BAB.
Light armor gets DRR equal to 1.5xBAB.
Heavy armor gets DRR cap 50.
Medium armor gets DRR cap 100.

 

[Br4d]

The issue with dodge and at this point with melee in general is that there's no stamina or endurance stat to track and limit physical maneuver in the game.

I don't think adding that at this point would be productive for many reasons but if every dodge took 10% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would solve most of the issue - particularly in high difficulty content where you just can't take many hits or you go down.

Similarly the number of hits some melee builds can land continuously is kind of insane. If every swing took 5% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would be a different ballgame with big swings and abilities becoming much more important. Those big swings and overall melee attack speed would drop dramatically if they were severely hampered by having no stamina to use them.

 

[Shear-buckler]

The issue with dodge and at this point with melee in general is that there's no stamina or endurance stat to track and limit physical maneuver in the game.

I don't think adding that at this point would be productive for many reasons but if every dodge took 10% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would solve most of the issue - particularly in high difficulty content where you just can't take many hits or you go down.

Similarly the number of hits some melee builds can land continuously is kind of insane. If every swing took 5% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would be a different ballgame with big swings and abilities becoming much more important. Those big swings and overall melee attack speed would drop dramatically if they were severely hampered by having no stamina to use them.

I strongly disgree. That would ruin the game.

 

[misterski]

The issue with dodge and at this point with melee in general is that there's no stamina or endurance stat to track and limit physical maneuver in the game.

I don't think adding that at this point would be productive for many reasons but if every dodge took 10% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would solve most of the issue - particularly in high difficulty content where you just can't take many hits or you go down.

Similarly the number of hits some melee builds can land continuously is kind of insane. If every swing took 5% of your stamina and stamina did not regen in combat, well that would be a different ballgame with big swings and abilities becoming much more important. Those big swings and overall melee attack speed would drop dramatically if they were severely hampered by having no stamina to use them.

So monks would have to balance both ki AND stamina with this? Screw this idea. No thanks.

 

[Sarpado Man]

The problems with dodge are well known. The more you stack it the more efficient it gets. This significantly limits all design space around dodge and requires artifical caps. Adding any new source of dodge cap will always be a massive boost to high dodge builds and a small boost at best to low dodge builds and be generally impractical to balance.

It is also way too strong in high difficulties and many of are expecting the reaper dodge-nerf to arrive sooner rather than later.

My suggestion is to replace all dodge bonuses with "dodge roll rating" (DRR) which would be a new stat that mimics PRR. Also remove the dodge cap stat completely. In the process dodge numbers would be generally increased across the board and new sources added.

The math would be Chance to dodge = 1-100/(DRR+100).

That would make dodge a linearly scaling stat with great returns at every level. It would generally be a buff to most characters and a nerf only to the builds that stack it the highest and a nerf to dodge clickies.

Full disclosure: My character for the last months is a 90% dodge monk.

The game has so many bugs it's impossible to count them. It's broken, the whole game is broken. If they've never fixed anything, they're even less likely to change a mechanic... Think about it, we've been asking for a fix for Master of the Dead for over ten years, and they haven't. Some say it's because the game is unbalanced, but the fact is, the game doesn't have to be balanced; it has to work first.

And make no mistake, the game isn't broken because they made a mistake, it's broken because they broke it on purpose, because they think it's better broken. You ask them for fixes and they don't fix bugs, they break things to balance as they see fit.

Inspiring Bound is a new skill, released about a year ago. And it never worked well, even though they charged for the expansion and new classes at the time.

Every day for over a decade, some user comes and posts about a bug or something broken, and they never fix it.

Maybe you guys should try another method because coming here to post has never worked.

Maybe you could send a lot of letters to Hasbro, visit the company, collect signatures, ask Wizards of the Coast, talk to lawyers, consult the company's executive, or ask for the director to be fired. You guys should try another strategy because writing here is useless.

If by chance you ever get a response from a staff member on a public post like this, where something is being discussed publicly, and they send you a private message, you should ask them to only communicate with you through the public post, so we can all read what it says. Furthermore, when they respond to you, they do so privately as a safeguard against being held accountable for what they post. Because one of the many things the community wants to know is who is responsible for so much ineptitude and lack of communication.

One of them once made a post, I asked a question, and since they couldn't answer me, they started sending me private messages. Because they didn't have an answer. And that's because whoever's in charge isn't smart enough to debate on their own posts.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMJIY1y25PdlaDYbCf4xgZF-GRLb9VUpAeO4qFA?hl=es-419

I'm not kidding. After several years of waiting for them to fix something, somewhere between Feywild and Isle of the Dread, I began to suspect they weren't really responding or wanting to say anything because they'd killed the programmer and buried him in the backyard. I was about to call 911.

To this day, I'm not asking for them to fix anything. I want to see a picture of one of the programmers with a journal from today.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

There is nothing wrong with dodge as it is. Don’t mess with it. Nerfs aren’t fun and rarely achieve balance.

 

[Shear-buckler]

The game has so many bugs it's impossible to count them. It's broken, the whole game is broken. If they've never fixed anything, they're even less likely to change a mechanic... Think about it, we've been asking for a fix for Master of the Dead for over ten years, and they haven't. Some say it's because the game is unbalanced, but the fact is, the game doesn't have to be balanced; it has to work first.

And make no mistake, the game isn't broken because they made a mistake, it's broken because they broke it on purpose, because they think it's better broken. You ask them for fixes and they don't fix bugs, they break things to balance as they see fit.

Inspiring Bound is a new skill, released about a year ago. And it never worked well, even though they charged for the expansion and new classes at the time.

Every day for over a decade, some user comes and posts about a bug or something broken, and they never fix it.

Maybe you guys should try another method because coming here to post has never worked.

Maybe you could send a lot of letters to Hasbro, visit the company, collect signatures, ask Wizards of the Coast, talk to lawyers, consult the company's executive, or ask for the director to be fired. You guys should try another strategy because writing here is useless.

Wrong thread?