Youre arguing with someone so far into his delusion that if AI told him 3+3=7 he'd post it here as correct math and call everyone an idiot.
I think the point many have been making is that if you don´t know anything about math, you are unable to verify what the AI is telling you.
Sure, sure.
To add to this - even if all the equations are done correctly - are they even the right ones to use in the context of what is happening in game? Those initial AI results that were propped up as true for this game were actually NOT accurate for this game (assumptions were made that resulted in it not reflecting how things actually are).
It's wild to see them so confidently incorrect. AFAIK, the only imbue that doesn't scale with DSt/DSh is the Dark Hunter's Bleed the Weak, and even that's getting fixed soon per the recent update notes lol. Even their response just looks like s/he typed, "can you reinforce my viewpoint to argue while sounding correct".
This is a large part of it. You have to know how to ask the right question to get the right answer.
Here, I'll add another example of how Chat GPT cannot parse nuance for DDO, even though it includes the word "nuance" in the search results:This is a large part of it. You have to know how to ask the right question to get the right answer.
If you lack an in-depth understanding of the topic at hand, especially a topic with complex calculations and large numbers of variables, how can you form a query for AI in a manner that correctly defines the scenario to the AI and restricts it to the correct datasets?
For example, take the following basic query that a DDO player who lacks an in-depth knowledge of the game would ask AI:
The ChatGPT's answer is incorrect on several points.
The correct answer for most mid to well-geared toons on a decent barbarian build is the Falchion of the Golden Age, which didn't even make the list.
The Greatsword of the Godlen Age, the Falchion of the Fallen Age and the Tail of the Scorpion also edge out the SoS for average DPS on all but the most min/max quad completionist toons at level 15. And that doesn't even take into account the bonus instakills from the vorpal procs on the Golden Age and Tail falchions.
Echo of the Blackrazor is "okay" but still measurably behind the aforementioned falchions in average DPS.
Riftmaker is quantifiably bad on a mid heroic barbarian and is comparable to Carnifex at level 15. Great axes in general are bad with the exception being Carnifex for levels 4 through 8. Even then, you're just as well off using a ML4 and ML8 Cannith Crafted Falchion with double aug slots and level-appropriate Xd6 elemental proc augs.
One possible exception to this would be a racial completionist Dwarf barbarian due to their bonuses with axes. I didn't bother to do those calculations though. Just eyeballing it, I doubt the racial bonuses are enough to make up the difference.
Edit - for reference, here's the list of 2HS weapons ranked by average damage per hit based on stats for a decently built and geared, multi-life barb.
Shadow Double does NOT increase doubleshot It does not fire crossbow bolts Not worth AP for an Inquisitive
The issue isn't the math; It's that the math is incomplete or build on incorrect assumptions.
This is verifiably a false, and will impact the results.
Using the term orthogonal here doesn't make any mathematical sense (neither of the terms is a vector), I assume you mean they're unrelated. They also aren't unrelated: if imbues could crit, it would increase the value of RP since the scaling is 150-200% compared to 100% for DS
simplified: Imbue DMG = Imbue dice x RP scalar (though it's the incorrect scalar) x DS scalar x Crit scalar
This conclusion is only true for builds using 100% RP scaling imbues, with 0 front+0 sneak DMG. None of which exist in ddo.
Typical values for non-giga comp+ geared ranged DPS with a few AF stacks:
Almost everyone on the forum is an MMQ. You could argue that being an MMQ is a top 3 reason people use forums. If I'm in that category, you certainly are as well.
So the math is correct...
Forum DDO. 99% of the player base doesn't have a Heroic falcion of the GA.
So the math is correct...
This is actually helpful. Thank you for your contribution. I'll add this to my model and report on the results.
The math is correct from a pure mathematical standpoint, but just because 1+2 =3 , doesn't mean that RP > DS. The model you used does not describe any situation that occurs in DDO, and relies on invalid assumptions (Imbue can crit, imbue damage is the only type of damage, imbue damage scales 100% off RP). If the assumptions were valid, your conclusion would be correct. Math is only as good as the context it can be applied in, and the examples you gave have no application in DDO.
You specifically call out my math here.
Now you are saying my math is correct, but you don't like its application. That was not your original statement. You implied I was using junk numbers and defending them. You are now stating that my math never applies to any situation that occurs in DDO. Is that your position, or do you want to rephrase that? Whether your new position is true or not is unproven. The model will respond when I have time. The model is always evolving. In any event, I have already demonstrated that my core original position is correct. Now, whether that occurs only in a laboratory or out in the "real" game world remains to be seen.
I'm saying you're too reliant on AI and lack any capacity for critical thought. Which is further proven many other statements.
My original statement was that you were too reliant on AI for your argument. You copied and pasted things from the AI that was clearly incorrect (imbues can crit). AI doesn't understand DDO, and often has access to old or bad information (or with more niche games, it uses information for similar named games). You should at least check the general parts/ideas of the model before posting on a mathematical discussion.
The model has to be tailored to reality. They are junk numbers because the situation that model describes does not exist in DDO. Bad model = Useless numerical results. The model you provided is a good building block, but it is substantially incomplete in this instance.
That's always been my position (and many people here on forums), though perhaps you misunderstood it. The 3+3 statement was to show that you trust AI too much and won't fact-check it. The model AI gave you said imbues crit in its formula, which was pointed out to you by many people Perhaps there's a misunderstanding in what people mean by “your math is wrong”. This isn't pure mathematics, where there is an objectively right answer. We're talking about applied math, where the chosen model has to describe reality. What we mean by your math is wrong is “Your chosen model fails to describe the situation”. A model is only as good as the validity of the assumptions it's build on, and how well it describes the reality. AI has a tendency to state the model, but not the assumptions that model requires to be satisfied.
Incorrect. I actually did the relevant math, then logged in and verified that my in-game results matched my math results. By all means, show us how you logged into the game and verified your AI results.
You're seizing on one statement out of hundreds of words. I've pointed out in your R10 build sheet that your enhancements are wrongly demonstrated (on repeater), and the points don't add up. Does that invalidate everything you did about the build?
Elven Ranger here are hundreds of examples of me using critical thought. I don't think it proves anything but you trying to take a cheap shot.
Agreed.
This is peak gatekeeper mentality.The only guy in the room who's bad at math (self-admittedly) is constantly trying to debate how to correctly apply math to a complex math problem with people who are good at math but thinks he's right because RandomAI_05 told him so.
This is peak AI.
Where's the gatekeeping?
