DRAGON DISCIPLE WIS THROWER U72

[Mary]

DRAGON DISCIPLE WIS THROWER U72

Dragon Disciple monk archetype as a caster is a massive fail. But as a thrower can be pretty fun.

Presented is my old (for posterity) but updated wisdom star thrower in ninja spy / falconry. You may do this on a first life toon with no past lives, however, having more ability points from past lives, you can put more into Wisdom, which is your primary stat. Dex is second, you need it to qualify for certain necessary feats, but you can use a +8 tome and cover dex while focusing wis. This build is fun but does not see the big damage of the dex thrower - however it is very flavorful and ok for any content Casual-Normal-Hard-Elite-Reaper1-3 (anything beyond R3 would be difficult because your dps is on the low side)

If you have a supreme tome even better, but it is not needed.

To build as displayed
32 Point Build
+3 Racial Tome
+2 Universal Tome
+3 Fate Tome
x3 Destiny Tomes

Note I will mark !!! for things you want to consider based on your toon's past lives and gear.

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DRAGON DISCIPLE WIS STAR THROWER U72 2025

Classes: 20 Dragon Disciple, E10, L4
Race: Drow Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Start Tome Final HP: 722 Displacement: 50%
Str: 8 0 6 Unc Rng: -10 Incorp: 0%
Dex: 20 0 24 PRR: 9 AC: 49
Con: 12 0 12 MRR: 12 +Healing Amp: 0
Int: 10 0 10 Dodge: 26/33 -Healing Amp: 0
*Wis: 14 0 32 Fort: 50% Repair Amp: 0
Cha: 10 0 10 SR: 12 BAB: 25
DR: 10/Epic
Immunities: Sleep, Disease, Natural Poison, Spawn effects of Undead, Magic Missiles, Energy Drain, Most forms of Knockdown, Silence, Quell, Blindness, Death effect, Level drain

Class and Feat Selection

Level	Class	Feats
1	Dragon Disciple(1)	Standard: Point Blank Shot
		Dragon Arts: Dodge
		Class Skills: Concentration(4), Jump(2), Tumble(4)
		Cross Class Skills: Perform(2), Use Magic Device(4)
2	Dragon Disciple(2)	Dragon Arts: Precision
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
3	Dragon Disciple(3)	Standard: Rapid Shot
		Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
4	Dragon Disciple(4)	Wisdom: +1 Level up
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
5	Dragon Disciple(5)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
6	Dragon Disciple(6)	Standard: Ten Thousand Stars
		Dragon Arts: Mobility
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
7	Dragon Disciple(7)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
8	Dragon Disciple(8)	Wisdom: +1 Level up
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
9	Dragon Disciple(9)	Standard: Shot on the Run
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
10	Dragon Disciple(10)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
11	Dragon Disciple(11)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
12	Dragon Disciple(12)	Standard: Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons
		Wisdom: +1 Level up
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
13	Dragon Disciple(13)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
14	Dragon Disciple(14)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
15	Dragon Disciple(15)	Standard: Precise Shot
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
16	Dragon Disciple(16)	Wisdom: +1 Level up
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
17	Dragon Disciple(17)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
18	Dragon Disciple(18)	Standard: Deflect Arrows !!! Here Take Quick Draw, you need it, but if you have access to gear or a topaz of quick movements, take Deflect Arrow; you need a source of Quick Draw tho
		Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
19	Dragon Disciple(19)	Class Skills: Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
		Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
20	Dragon Disciple(20)	Wisdom: +1 Level up
		Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Tumble(1)
21	Epic(1)	Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22	Epic(2)	Epic Destiny Feat: Holy Strike
23	Epic(3)
24	Epic(4)	Epic Feat: Combat Archery
		Wisdom: +1 Level up
25	Epic(5)	Epic Destiny Feat: Doubleshot
26	Epic(6)
27	Epic(7)	Epic Feat: Eerie Aim !!! In the ddo builder I did not see improved martial arts - you want to take it if you have the option to at some point during your epics; whereever you can fit it in; you may not need both Eerie Aim and Legendary Aim, I would if can grab improved martial arts
28	Epic(8)	Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
		Wisdom: +1 Level up
29	Epic(9)
30	Epic(10)	Epic Feat: Patience
		Legendary Feat: Scion of Arborea !!! You could grab Scion of the Astral Plane here or Scion of the Ethereal Plane; overall I think its up to you based on your gear/past lives/reaper points. Arborea is a good safe pick.
31	Legendary(1)	Epic Destiny Feat: Legendary Aim
32	Legendary(2)	Wisdom: +1 Level up
33	Legendary(3)	Epic Feat: Watchful Eye
34	Legendary(4)	Epic Destiny Feat: Embodiment of Law

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Skill Points     16  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4
Skill Name       01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20  Ranks Tome Buffed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance                                                                    1    1.0    0   24.0
Bluff                                                                           0.0    0   13.0
Concentration     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   37.0
Diplomacy                                                                       0.0    0   13.0
Disable Device                                                                  0.0    0   13.0
Haggle                                                                          0.0    0   13.0
Heal                                                                            0.0    0   24.0
Hide                                                                            0.0    0   26.0
Intimidate                                                                      0.0    0   13.0
Jump              2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   21.0    0   65.0
Listen                                                                          0.0    0   32.0
Move Silently                                                                   0.0    0   26.0
Open Lock                                                                       0.0    0   20.0
Perform           1                                                             1.0    0   14.0
Repair                                                                          0.0    0   13.0
Search                                                                          0.0    0   15.0
Spellcraft                                                                      0.0    0   13.0
Spot                                                                            0.0    0   32.0
Swim                                                                            0.0    0   11.0
Tumble            4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   46.0
Use Magic Device  2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½      11.0    0   24.0
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Available Points  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 3, Universal 2
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Drow - Points spent: 7
Core1 Spell Resistance I
Core2 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Core3 Spell Resistance II
Core4 Ability II: +1 Dexterity
Core5 Spell Resistance III
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja Spy - Points spent: 42
Core1 Basic Ninja Training
Tier1 Ninjutsu I
Tier1 Sneak Attack Training I
Tier1 Acrobatic - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Ninjutsu II
Tier2 Sneak Attack Training II
Core2 Advanced Ninja Training
Tier2 Action Boost Selection: Melee/Ranged Power - 3 Ranks
Core3 Shadow Veil
Tier3 Ninjutsu III
Tier3 Sneak Attack Training III
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Core4 Poisoned Darts
Tier4 No Mercy - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Tier4 Sneak Attack Training IV
Tier4 Ninjutsu IV
Tier5 Touch of Death
Tier5 Deadly Striker
Tier5 Archer's Focus or Self Defense: Improved Archer's Focus
Core5 Diversion
Tier5 Shadow Double
Core6 Ninja Master
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falconry - Points spent: 34
Core1 Summon Falcon: Summon Raven
Tier1 Practiced Accuracy - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Hunter's Knowledge
Tier2 Diving Attack: Diving Shot - 3 Ranks
Core2 Ability I: Wisdom
Tier2 Watch the Center - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Killer Instinct I
Core3 Well Rounded I
Tier3 Conditioning
Tier3 Killer Instinct II
Tier3 Go for the Eyes: Go for the Eyes Shot - 3 Ranks
Core4 Ability II: Wisdom
Tier4 Coordinated Strikes: Coordinated Shot
Tier4 No Mercy - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Expose Weakness
Tier4 Deadly Instinct - 3 Ranks
Core5 Well Rounded II
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Disciple - Points spent: 2
Core1 Draconic Studies
Tier1 Power in Practice
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Epic Destinies: 73 Destiny Points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shiradi Champion - Points spent: 35
Core1 Fey Favor
Tier1 Prism
Tier1 Good Luck - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shiradi Strike: Pin
Core2 Vision
Tier2 Stay: Stay Good - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Friend or Foe: Enemy Of My Own
Tier2 Fade or Presence: Phase Double - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Beguile or Hunt's End: Hunt's End
Core3 Audience with the Queen
Tier3 Strike Upgrade I: Queen's Diplomacy
Tier3 Double Rainbow
Tier3 Pierce Deception
Core4 Fey Countenance
Tier4 Strike Upgrade II: Overwhelming Force
Tier4 Crooked Touch: Whirling Wrists - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Queen's Diplomacy
Tier4 Track
Tier4 Cruelty of the Hunt
Tier5 Nerve Venom
Tier5 Lore of the Hunt
Tier5 Feywild Attunement
Tier5 Epic Moment: Inexorable Advance
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadowdancer - Points spent: 24
Core1 The Darkest Luck I
Tier1 Assassinate - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Cover of Darkness - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Stealthy - 3 Ranks
Core2 Step Through Shadows
Tier2 Lithe - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Dance in the Dark - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Shadowcaster: Shadowstriker
Core3 The Darkest Luck
Core4 Cut to the Soul
Tier4 Pierce the Gloom - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unyielding Sentinel - Points spent: 14
Core1 Unyielding
Tier1 Divine Energy Resistance
Tier1 Brace for Impact - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Attack and Defend - 3 Ranks
Core2 Ward Against Darkness
Tier2 Renewal
Core3 Stand Against the Tide
Tier3 Hands of the Sentinel
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Dragon Disciple Spells

Level	Spell Name	School	CL/MCL	DC	Average Damage	Critical Damage
1	Jump	Transmutation	-	-	-	-
1	Longstrider	Transmutation	-	-	-	-
2	Blur	Illusion	-	-	-	-
2	Gust of Wind	Evocation	-	23	-	-
3	Displacement	Illusion	-	-	-	-
3	Greater Elemental Weapons	Evocation	-	-	-	-
4	Death Ward	Transmutation	-	-	-	-
4	Protection from Elements, Mass	Abjuration	20/10	-	400 - 400, Average 400	800 - 800, Average 800

 

[kkOhio]

Do you think this build will season well through the current monk pass and what about the new archetype? I'm feeling like dusting off my old thrower build to see what it's like these days.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

It's very bad nonviable pure trolling build. Don't do it!

I'll go now drink a liter of vodka to try to forget this horror... 8)

 

[Nod]

What is this abomination of a build? So many things I can comment on, let’s name a few. Wis based thrower so no Dex to double shot. (Loss of 200% double shot). Also, no Ki generation for 10k stars?!?

 

[Chab]

Do you think this build will season well through the current monk pass and what about the new archetype? I'm feeling like dusting off my old thrower build to see what it's like these days.

i will pay you NOT to run this build so you don’t suffer.

 

[Chab]

What is this abomination of a build? So many things I can comment on, let’s name a few. Wis based thrower so no Dex to double shot. (Loss of 200% double shot). Also, no Ki generation for 10k stars?!?

might as well be a cleric thrower

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Do you think this build will season well through the current monk pass and what about the new archetype? I'm feeling like dusting off my old thrower build to see what it's like these days.

Build above lists that it's a flavor build so can't judge too harshly, but I wouldn't recommend it.

20 Monk is fine, but I would recommend a slightly different AP split and Dex-max instead of Wis. Secondary Con > Wis.

I was running 41 NS, 14 HW (Trance, Hunter's Focus), 11 VKF (Quick Draw, DA, 5% DS), 8 Henshin (Contemplation for Ki regen). Would probably drop Henshin for something else these days (Shintao for heals, T4 VKF for 5% DS, racial?) since you now are required to run GMoF for ki generation.

I did Halfling for the PL, SA dice, and Dragonmark (which came in clutch a fair few times).

ED-wise Shiradi Stay Loud mantle + Hunt's End + T5, Fatesinger Strike + Arrow of Discord (make sure you get the sonic vuln T1 and double sonic T3; and third tree GMoF for the +Ki button (and elemental absorbs which help a lot with trash MRR). Your DPS buttons eat Ki (particularly Shadow Double) so you need GMoF now IMO.

You can totally just take +25% max HP in T5 NS, unless you're building a raid toon IAF doesn't matter and HP are great. Aim for 100 Dex > then max RP/DS/etc.

 

[AbyssalMage]

I take it from the comments that Dex > 70 matters now?

 

[SpartanKiller13]

I take it from the comments that Dex > 70 matters now?

Now? It's mattered since Shuriken Expertise and Advanced Ninja Training were a thing.

Past 100 matters less, then it's just Hit/Damage/Trance etc, but up to 100 each point of Dex = 2% chance of another shuri on top of H/D/T. It's really very good.

 

[AbyssalMage]

Now? It's mattered since Shuriken Expertise and Advanced Ninja Training were a thing.

Past 100 matters less, then it's just Hit/Damage/Trance etc, but up to 100 each point of Dex = 2% chance of another shuri on top of H/D/T. It's really very good.

Maybe I misremembered then. I remember 70 dex being a soft cap and people were debating 120/70 or 70/120 on Monk throwers. I do remember it was more difficult to get to 120 Wisdom because of gear Tetris and so 120 Dex was more user friendly.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Maybe I misremembered then. I remember 70 dex being a soft cap and people were debating 120/70 or 70/120 on Monk throwers. I do remember it was more difficult to get to 120 Wisdom because of gear Tetris and so 120 Dex was more user friendly.

Ah, well fair enough. I'm not aware of that, but I'm certainly not much of a monk/thrower/ranged player so I don't know the history well.

 

[TeacherSyncletica]

You're doing it right.
This build is generally my default starthrower. The UMD is great for diversity. Nothing wrong with going 20 Monk here. The Monk stances add lots of diversity to both attack and defense.
Mercifully, Update 72 has not, to my knowledge and experience of yet, affected starthrowers. In fact, tier 5 of Ninja Spy now has Improved Archer's Focus. But I don't see that outweighing the T5 of Falconry, especially with Death from Above Shots. One-shotting the tree-trunk firing ballistas in Epic "Storm the Beaches" saves lives.

 

[Mary]

updated for U72 remade as a Dragon Disciple. My Dex Monk thrower is stronger, but this has a lot of fun gameplay too.

 

[Mary]

Do you think this build will season well through the current monk pass and what about the new archetype? I'm feeling like dusting off my old thrower build to see what it's like these days.

I do not, I posted this here for posterity as something to do with Dragon Disciple, wis/falcon is not very good; if you're going to make a ranged do dex and inquis, or if you want to do a monk thrower, i posted a dex thrower here. But if you really wanted to play DD and not spell cast, this is a pretty enjoyable train wreck. As you will read above, it lacks just about everything one would want, but then again so does DD.

 

[Mary]

Build above lists that it's a flavor build so can't judge too harshly, but I wouldn't recommend it.

20 Monk is fine, but I would recommend a slightly different AP split and Dex-max instead of Wis. Secondary Con > Wis.

I was running 41 NS, 14 HW (Trance, Hunter's Focus), 11 VKF (Quick Draw, DA, 5% DS), 8 Henshin (Contemplation for Ki regen). Would probably drop Henshin for something else these days (Shintao for heals, T4 VKF for 5% DS, racial?) since you now are required to run GMoF for ki generation.

I did Halfling for the PL, SA dice, and Dragonmark (which came in clutch a fair few times).

ED-wise Shiradi Stay Loud mantle + Hunt's End + T5, Fatesinger Strike + Arrow of Discord (make sure you get the sonic vuln T1 and double sonic T3; and third tree GMoF for the +Ki button (and elemental absorbs which help a lot with trash MRR). Your DPS buttons eat Ki (particularly Shadow Double) so you need GMoF now IMO.

You can totally just take +25% max HP in T5 NS, unless you're building a raid toon IAF doesn't matter and HP are great. Aim for 100 Dex > then max RP/DS/etc.

thank you spartan, i appreciate your normal, none-dialed-up, reasonable answer talking to my build and me normally. Thank you. Based. W you! This forum, really, smh, I debate every single time I post here because its just become toxic. I really appreciate when i get a normal reasonable friendly response. thank you.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

I debate every single time I post here because its just become toxic.

Sure, pal, the reasons is not your nonviable very bad builds misleads newbies and your inability to perceive criticism, but the toxic community that has the audacity to criticize you. Exactly.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

thank you spartan, i appreciate your normal, none-dialed-up, reasonable answer talking to my build and me normally. Thank you. Based. W you! This forum, really, smh, I debate every single time I post here because its just become toxic. I really appreciate when i get a normal reasonable friendly response. thank you.

For sure lol, no point in judging builds harshly esp when they're listed as a fun/flavor build. If you said "this is the best shuri build" I'd be a bit more critical though lol.

I've even heard the Falconry Assassinate can be good for specific use cases, but my experience as a Shuri Monk found that DPS generally worked better for me.

Lots of forum warriors around to say "it's only 99% of max damage, your build is trash" but also you're posting some flavor builds and only responding on occasion, so you get both more responses and more at once.

At the end of the day DDO's a game, as long as you have sorta realistic expectations when sharing build stuff I'm on board

 

[Teh_Troll]

For sure lol, no point in judging builds harshly esp when they're listed as a fun/flavor build. If you said "this is the best shuri build" I'd be a bit more critical though lol.

I've even heard the Falconry Assassinate can be good for specific use cases, but my experience as a Shuri Monk found that DPS generally worked better for me.

Lots of forum warriors around to say "it's only 99% of max damage, your build is trash" but also you're posting some flavor builds and only responding on occasion, so you get both more responses and more at once.

At the end of the day DDO's a game, as long as you have sorta realistic expectations when sharing build stuff I'm on board

Dude . . . anyone going for "max DPS" that isn't an inquisitive is a flavor build right now. None of us should judge anyone too harshly.

 

[Mokune]

Dude . . . anyone going for "max DPS" that isn't an inquisitive is a flavor build right now. None of us should judge anyone too harshly.

My DDM Acid Breath happens to be lime flavored.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Dude . . . anyone going for "max DPS" that isn't an inquisitive is a flavor build right now. None of us should judge anyone too harshly.

Lmao right? It's a hard time to be a builder right now. I was referring a little more specifically though, like Wis-max Shuri won't be highest Shuri DPS option, but you're not wrong.

I don't think Shuri is super far behind FWIW, but it's always hard to compare and they play differently. I didn't feel bad bringing it to push raids though, which was my goal.

Just set goals for your build, and explain fairly what other people should expect if they're going to play it