Duergar Throwing Axe Build- Top Tier Endgame Ranged DPS

Lanerz

Active member
With the arrival of the Duergar Race, I excitedly began to revise this build that I have been playing for Dwarf lives (and subsequently again for WF lives, I used Wish for Memories because I wanted to keep playing this build) that was very good DPS and was overall very fun to play.
here is a link to that build post:
https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...-doesnt-suck-to-level-tomahawk-thrower.27243/

Some Limitations of the Old Build:
-Raging is nice for DPS , but makes healing and buffing difficult, like when Trance lapses
- feats are more limited compared to new build
- no Big self heal

Why Duergar Dramatically Improves this Build:
-Forge Apprentice: Throwing Axes are now simple weapons.
This Opens: Multitude of Missiles and Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise.
-MASSIVE DPS Spike Potential. Huge DS increase, (~50% more) Baseline Doubleshot. Inexorable Advance + MoM= Boom
-Facilitates swapping to DL which equals more feats and STR based Trance. lower STR overall than Barbarian build, but overall higher base damage.
-more friendly leveling than prior build/ as well as earlier throwing due to more feats/ feats that raise the floor of the build as well as the ceiling. simple thrown weapon expertise and swashbuckling by level 9 gives you a better floor for lower level throwing. can play with feats to try and maximize early potential but this is what I came up with.
-IMO the Duergar race improves this from a viable off meta ranged DPS build to an Elite endgame ranged DPS build.

Dragon Lord over Barbarian:
DL Imbue is way better than Bard, scales w 200% RP vs sonic SP. since were pushing almost 500 sustainable RP and almost 600 peak RP, imbue damage is way up
Access to Second Wind for a reliable big heal.
STR Trance to maximize our main stat
No raging so can use cure light wounds constantly
All the feats due to fighter bonus feats.

Highlights compared to old build:
Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise ups our standing doubleshot from low 130s to 180s. This alone is a huge DPS boost as a single double shot action boost takes us to 215ish, the reaper DS boost puts us to 245, and MoM spikes us to 345.
Range Power also spikes higher with MoM. Peak output is just under 600 RP during epic moment/ boosts.
- these numbers are both big improvements and make Inexorable Advance Epic Moment go BRRRRRR.
Despite lower overall STR, use of STR trance and damage enhancements from DL and Duergar put us at a higher base damage than the old build without even accounting for the backend DS and RP spikes from gaining throwing axes as simple weapons.


Overall, my previous build was fun to play because it hit like a truck, but was moderately clunky to level and heal/buff due to raging.
With the swap to DL and the Duergar race giving simple weapons to T-Axe, healing (Second Wind, cure light wounds whenever) buffing (best believe i spam Tensers on cooldown) , leveling with additional feats, everything is just overall better. Our damage output potential is so much higher and quality of life issues are much improved with the change to DL and Duergar. The gear set is still cancerous to farm.

I hope you enjoy this writeup as I truly have enjoyed playing, refining and sharing the two iterations of this build over the last couple months and cant wait to thoroughly test this new version at endgame (I just got back to cap last night as work has been brutal).
Any comments, criticisms, compliments, questions or suggestions for improvement are very much welcome.

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Character name: Eobaarde Thawne
Classes: 11 Dragon Lord, 6 Dark Hunter, 3 Bard, E10, L6
Race: Duergar Alignment: Chaotic Good

Start Tome Final HP: 3513 Displacement: 0%
Str: 18 8 104 Unc Rng: -310 Incorp: 10%
Dex: 14 8 63 PRR: 158 AC: 149
Con: 18 8 79 MRR: 83 +Healing Amp: 115
Int: 12 8 26 Dodge: 28/28 -Healing Amp: 5
Wis: 8 8 42 Fort: 298% Repair Amp: 5
Cha: 8 8 23 SR: 0 BAB: 25
DR:
Immunities: Magic Missiles, Energy Drain, Falling Damage, Death Effects

Special Feats



Inherent Fate Point(3)
Inherent Racial Action Point(3)
Inherent Universal Action Point(4)
Tome of Destiny(3)


Saves:


Fortitude84
vs Poison87
vs Disease 85
Will58
vs Enchantment59
vs Illusion58
vs Fear67
vs Curse58
Reflex95
vs Traps97
vs Spell104
vs Magic95
Marked with a* is no fail on a 1 if required DC met

Code:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points     12  8  8  4  4  4  9  9  9  9  5  5  5  9 10  6  6 10  6  6
Skill Name       01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20  Ranks Tome Buffed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance              ½ 1½  1  1  ½  2  3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   21.5    0   71.5
Bluff                                                                           0.0    0   22.0
Concentration                                                                   0.0    0   50.0
Diplomacy                                                                       0.0    0   33.0
Disable Device                                                                  0.0    0   24.0
Haggle                                                                          0.0    0   23.0
Heal              2  3  1        ½       1½  5  ½  ½  ½  3  1  ½  1  1  1  1   23.0    5   61.0
Hide                                                                            0.0    0   53.0
Intimidate                                                                      0.0    5   28.0
Jump                                                                            0.0    5   71.0
Listen                                                                          0.0    0   32.0
Move Silently                                                                   0.0    0   52.0
Open Lock                                                                       0.0    0   42.0
Perform                                                                         0.0    0   22.0
Repair                                                                          0.0    0   25.0
Search                                                                          0.0    0   26.0
Spellcraft                                                                      0.0    5   29.0
Spot                                                                            0.0    0   32.0
Swim                                                                            0.0    0   63.0
Tumble            2 1½ 1½  ½  ½  ½  2  4  4  ½           1 2½  ½    2½         23.5    0   68.5
Use Magic Device  2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  5  2  1  ½  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    5   54.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


StatisticEnhancementInsightfulArtifactQualityProfaneEquipmentCompetenceExceptionalFestiveFortune
Self and Party Buffs


Potion of Titan's Grip
Tenser's Transformation
Yugoloth: Essence of Fury (Str)
Potion of Prowess
Ram's Might
Long Lasting Elixir of Strength
Long Lasting Elixir of Intelligence
Long Lasting Elixir of Wisdom
Long Lasting Elixir of Constitution
Long Lasting Elixir of Dexterity
Long Lasting Elixir of Charisma

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 9, Universal 4



Duergar - Points spent: 14
Core1 Underdark Upbringing I
Core2 Ability I: +1 Strength
Core3 Underdark Upbringing II
Core4 Ability II: +1 Strength
Core5 Underdark Upbringing III
Tier1 Dwarven Weapon Training I: Axe Training
Tier1 Forge Apprentice
Tier2 Weapon Training II: Axe Training
Tier3 Favored Enemies: Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid



Deepwood Stalker - Points spent: 40
Core1 Far Shot
Tier1 Stealthy - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Increased Empathy - 1 Ranks
Core2 Sneak Attack
Tier2 Improved Weapon Finesse
Tier2 Action Boost: Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Survivalist I
Tier3 Thrill of the Hunt - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Survivalist II
Tier3 Favored Hunter - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Tier3 Aimed Shot
Core3 Called Shot: Sniper Shot
Tier4 Killer - 1 Ranks
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Dexterity
Tier4 Survivalist III
Tier5 Improved Archer's Focus
Tier5 Devastating Shot
Tier5 Strikes Like Lightning
Tier5 Heavy Draw
Tier5 Extra Favored Enemy: Favored Enemy: Magical Beast



Dragon Lord - Points spent: 16
Core1 Draconic Soul: Soul of the Red Dragon
Tier1 Martial Superiority: Dragon Lord: Martial Superiority: Shoot Twice - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Battlefield Tactician I
Tier1 Dragon's Protection I
Core2 Draconic Arms
Tier2 Dragonslayer
Tier2 Draconic Resilience - 2 Ranks
Tier3 Dragon's Roar
Tier3 Might or Outburst: Might in Order - 3 Ranks
Core3 Reckless Devotion



Swashbuckler - Points spent: 11
Core1 Confidence
Tier1 Blow By Blow: Blow By Blow (Ranged) - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Tavern Shanties - 2 Ranks
Core2 Swashbuckling
Tier2 Action Boost: Doubleshot - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Swashbuckling Style: Dashing Scoundrel



Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 11
Core1 Knife Expertise
Tier1 Undead Hunter
Tier1 Mist Stalker I
Tier1 Acrobatic - 3 Ranks
Core2 Knife Juggler
Tier2 Mist Stalker II
Core3 Quick Reflexes



Harper Agent - Points spent: 1
Core1 Agent of Good I


Bard Spells

LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
1Feather FallTransmutation----
Dark Hunter Spells

LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
Weapon Damage


Melee Power: 201.0
Doublestrike: 56%
Strikethrough: 20%
Mainhand damage ability multiplier: 1
Offhand damage ability multiplier: 0
Off-Hand attack Chance: 60%
Fortification Bypass: 150%
Dodge Bypass: 18%
Helpless Damage bonus: 98%
Ranged Power: 512.0
Doubleshot Chance: 283%

Sneak Attack Attack bonus: 18
Sneak Attack Damage: 16d6+27

Main Hand: Throwing Axe of the Undying Age
On Hit 8.85[1d6+3]+173
Critical 15-18 (8.85[1d6+3]+202) * 5
Critical 19-20 (8.85[1d6+3]+202) * 7
DR Bypass: Magic, Pierce
You bypass Incorporeality miss chance with this weapon


Equipped Gear Set:


ArmorLight Armor of the Warblade's ReflectionDrops in: Ritual Table, Turn in
Legendary Light Armor of the Warblade
120 Barrier Fragments
Sigil of the Warblade
+15 Enhancement Bonus
Accuracy +24
Deadly +12
Shadow Striker
Legendary Armor-Piercing +5%
Green: Sapphire of Protection +11
Colorless: Imbued Infusion
Sun: Solar Gem of Fortification Bypass (Legendary)
BeltOphael's CinctureDrops in: Threats Old and New, Raid Warded chest
Deception +12
Insightful Deception +6
Seeker +15
Sealed in Undeath: Insightful Strength +7
Green: Sapphire of Healing Amplification +50
Yellow: Perfect Silence
Moon: Lunar Gem of Dexterity (Legendary)
Deck Curse: Curse of Major Imbuement
BootsDeath's DeferralDrops in: Threats Old and New, Raid Warded chest
Insightful Accuracy +11
Quality Deadly +3
Undying -285
Sealed in Undeath: Quality Strength +3
Green: Sapphire of Dodge +11
Yellow: Essence of Dark Diversion
Moon: Lunar Gem of Strength (Legendary)
BracersBracers of the BattleragerDrops in: Threats Old and New, Raid Warded chest
Fortification +162%
Insightful Fortification +81%
Quality Fortification +40%
Sealed in Undeath: Strength +15
Green: The Art of Sabotage, Vol. 3
Yellow: +2 Festive Constitution
Moon: Lunar Gem of Physical Protection (Legendary)
Deck Curse: Curse of Major Strength
CloakLegendary Gravekeeper's Heavy CloakDrops in: Locked Away (Part One), end chest
Profane Lifeforce +51
Insightful Magical Sheltering +18
Melancholic Slot (Accessory): Melancholic Wisdom (Legendary)
Dolorous Slot (Accessory): Dolorous Quality Wisdom (Legendary)
Green: Sapphire of Natural Armor +14
Colorless: Globe of True Imperial Blood
Sun: Solar Gem of Ranged Power (Legendary)
GlovesLegendary Gloves of the NimbleDrops in: Death Hosts This Banquet, end chest
Insightful Dexterity +6
Quality Reflex Save +3
Speed +30%
Physical Sheltering +37
Green: Perfect Silence
Colorless: +2 Festive Strength
Moon: Lunar Gem of Weapon Damage (Legendary)
GogglesLegendary Goggles of the BerserkerDrops in: Secrets of the Red Wizards, end chest
Enhanced Bloodrage
Relentless Fury
Lifesealed +37
Ghostly
Green: Legendary Arrowbound Topaz
Colorless: Imbued Infusion
Sun: Solar Gem of Doubleshot (Legendary)
HelmetLegendary Helm of the WarbladeDrops in: Ruins of Myth Drannor, Yegora 's chest (rare)
Quality Resistance +2
Crown of Summer
Crown of Summer
Action Boost Enhancement
Exceptional Seeker +5
Green: Topaz of Ranged Power +10
Colorless: Imbued Infusion
Sun: Solar Gem of Strength (Legendary)
NecklaceLegendary Black DynamoDrops in: Zoo Creeper, end chest
Insightful Constitution +7
Insightful Armor-Piercing +11%
Melancholic Slot (Accessory): Melancholic Dexterity (Legendary)
Dolorous Slot (Accessory): Dolorous Quality Accuracy (Legendary)
Colorless: Ravil's Book of Legendary Recipes
Moon: Lunar Gem of Ranged Power (Legendary)
QuiverEpic Purifying QuiverDrops in: Oath of Vengeance, end chest (legendary)
Burning Ammunition - 1d8
Blunted Ammunition
Ring1The Autumn EquinoxDrops in: Voices of the Dead, end chest (rare)
Alchemical Earth Attunement
Bloody Thorns
Insightful Resistance +6
Insightful Doublestrike +8%
Insightful Doubleshot +5%
Green: Sapphire of Resistance +11
Blue: Sapphire of False Life +54
Filigree 1: Spines of the Manticore/The Wreath of Flame +6 Ranged Power(Rare)
Filigree 2: Shattered Device: +1 Strength
Filigree 3: Crackshot Negotiator: +3 Ranged Power
Filigree 4: Spines of the Manticore: +3 Ranged Power
Filigree 5: The Long Shadow: +3 Ranged Power(Rare)
Ring2Legendary Ring of Unnatural AccuracyDrops in: Pilgrims' Peril, end chest
Quality Dexterity +3
Quality Doubleshot +3%
Greater Marksmanship
Distant Diversion -22%
Green: Sapphire of Protection +11
TrinketLegendary HeartshardDrops in: Snowfall and Sunlight, end chest (rare)
Legendary Conditioning +15%
Melancholic Slot (Accessory): Melancholic Constitution (Legendary)
Dolorous Slot (Accessory): Dolorous Quality Constitution (Legendary)
Miserable Slot (Accessory): Miserable Magical Resistance Rating (Legendary)
Green: Emerald of Arcane Empowerment
Colorless: Perfect Silence
Sun: Solar Gem of Cruelty (Legendary)
Weapon1Throwing Axe of the Undying AgeDrops in: Ritual Table, Turn in
Legendary Throwing Axe of the Golden Age
120 Barrier Fragments
+15 Enhancement Bonus
Dripping with Magma
3rd Degree Burns
Vorpal
Sealed in Fire: Legendary Dust
Orange: Deconstructor
Purple: Ruby of Positive Spell Power +153
Filigree 1: Spines of the Manticore/The Wreath of Flame +6 Ranged Power(Rare)
Filigree 2: Shattered Device: +1 Strength
Filigree 3: Shattered Device: +1 Attack and Damage
Filigree 4: Crackshot Negotiator: +3 Ranged Power
Filigree 5: The Long Shadow: +3 Ranged Power(Rare)
Filigree 6: Crackshot Negotiator: +2 Reflex Saves
Filigree 7: Spines of the Manticore: +3 Ranged Power
Filigree 8: Shattered Device: +3 Ranged Power(Rare)
Filigree 9: Crackshot Negotiator: +1 Attack and Damage
Filigree 10: The Long Shadow: +1 Attack and Damage
 
Last edited:

Bjond

Well-known member
Cool that you're having fun. A couple suggestions: post builds in the build section and avoid clickbait hyperbole titles. I'd estimate dps around 1/3 shuri; ie. not top tier, closer to grade C or D.

It is a decent maximization of an axe thrower, but simple thrown underperforms versus shuri & repeater these days.

If you want to take it further: punt DWS+STR for HW+DEX. Imagine your trance and your double scaling from your current STR value. It's even better if you get leapy with it for the extra ranged power from tumble/step. I can't stand leap/roll myself, but some people like it and it does perform.

Even after all that, though, you're still about half v shuri, which is the other reason I avoid simple thrown these days. I used to play it back when it was good. The style plays amazing -- very responsive -- but no longer delivers. ; ;
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
I’d be curious to see your damage calculus for 1/2 of shuri
I don't know about the exact proportions now, but the difference usually comes down to the number of shots per second. My numbers may be a bit dated (please correct), but it comes down to this:

Thrower base attack rate is about 1.5 per second, and thrown expertise adds 100% double shot. Your thrower can maybe get higher damage per missile than shuri, but it's what, 10-20% when you add sneak, imbues etc? You also have MoM that that is up maybe 20%? of the time.

Shuri gets another permanent +100% doubleshot (on top of shuri expertise) in Ninja Spy, and on top of that 50% uptime of almost +100% double shot and +Wis to RP via TTS. That's at least 50% more damage overall.

Inq (and repeater?) still fires (I think) about 4 projectiles per second (before multiplication with doubleshot) during NHB, and gets more damage and imbue dice. Sustained is maybe more at the level of a thrower, but during NHB the burst is great, and NHBs have charges rather than long cooldowns.

Bow is also around 1.5 attacks per second and just gets +25% double shot or so. It does get a better crit profile and Manyshot charges which compensates slightly in short bursts, but after 5 seconds it will do less DPS than shuri and inq (not sure about other throwers).

I too would be curious about current numbers/proportions for these styles, but it is pretty clear that shuri > other throwers, and shuri/inq/repeater > other ranged in general.
 
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EinarMal

Well-known member
I’d be curious to see your damage calculus for 1/2 of shuri
Go kill experiment Y in Lamordia, take hp/kill time, do it 3-4 times, and average your DPS.

If you can get 100K+, that is good burst DPS IMO.

I was getting around 120K on a repeater build with so-so gear several updates ago before the cap increase. So I would guess a fully maxed-out repeater is probably more like 150K+.

We will see what the balance pass does; who knows how that will shake out.

For what it's worth, I am currently on Wild Mage sorc half-elf, with CLS and very good gear, and do ~72K DPS on Y.

Casters suck.
 
Last edited:

Jaspar

Well-known member
Go kill experiment Y in Lamordia, take hp/kill time, do it 3-4 times, and average your DPS.

If you can get 100K+, that is good burst DPS IMO.

I was getting around 120K on a repeater build with so-so gear several updates ago before the cap increase. So I would guess a fully maxed-out repeater is probably more like 150K+.

We will see what the balance pass does; who knows how that will shake out.

For what it's worth, I am currently on Wild Mage sorc half-elf, with CLS and very good gear, and do ~72K DPS on Y.

Casters suck.

My 4 Arty GXB toon needs 5x Fusilade to take that dude down. And I have to stop to heal a lot. So it takes a couple of minutes.

Im guessing most builds dont need anywhere near that much time.

Do people bring a healer so they can dps 100% of the time ?
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
My 4 Arty GXB toon needs 5x Fusilade to take that dude down. And I have to stop to heal a lot. So it takes a couple of minutes.

Im guessing most builds dont need anywhere near that much time.

Do people bring a healer so they can dps 100% of the time ?
I don't just hit reborn in fire 1x; killing fast makes a big difference, and you can kite him easily.
 

Bjond

Well-known member
Do people bring a healer so they can dps 100% of the time ?
No. It only takes about half? an Epic to die. I don't bother with defense on any of my characters when killing him.

IMHO, he's more of a quick check than a good test -- dies much too fast and no reaper boosts. Real testing is a huge pain in DDO without a parser.

Ideally, find something big and bring a tank if you want to test raid dps output (so you can sneak every hit). Use frame capture and measure total time via start/end marks -- that way you can isolate Epic burst v steady state. It has to be in reaper if you want to cover the real burst window with *all* boosts, too.

I v.rarely get motivated enough to do all that, but I always ask the R10 push crowd which target they're currently using for tests. They're really good about picking decent test targets because they *need* to optimize heavily. I just like optimizing -- there's a difference. ;)


BTW, if you're not raiding, kinda don't worry too much about sustained DPS. If you're having fun, you're doing it right. Non-raid targets are too small to bother optimizing for DPS; they're MUCH more about burst and AE.

And, if you're too raid-optimized, questing suffers. My current shuri-ranged sucks when questing compared to my last ranged repeater build. It's nicer in raids, but truly don't feel bad / gimpy on a quest build. It's a different animal.
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
No. It only takes about half? an Epic to die. I don't bother with defense on any of my characters when killing him.

IMHO, he's more of a quick check than a good test -- dies much too fast and no reaper boosts. Real testing is a huge pain in DDO without a parser.

Ideally, find something big and bring a tank if you want to test raid dps output (so you can sneak every hit). Use frame capture and measure total time via start/end marks -- that way you can isolate Epic burst v steady state. It has to be in reaper if you want to cover the real burst window with *all* boosts, too.

I v.rarely get motivated enough to do all that, but I always ask the R10 push crowd which target they're currently using for tests. They're really good about picking decent test targets because they *need* to optimize heavily. I just like optimizing -- there's a difference. ;)


BTW, if you're not raiding, kinda don't worry too much about sustained DPS. If you're having fun, you're doing it right. Non-raid targets are too small to bother optimizing for DPS; they're MUCH more about burst and AE.

And, if you're too raid-optimized, questing suffers. My current shuri-ranged sucks when questing compared to my last ranged repeater build. It's nicer in raids, but truly don't feel bad / gimpy on a quest build. It's a different animal.
It's a good enough test for 95% of DDO players. Barely anyone is running raids above R1, so it gives a good indication of what your "end boss" DPS is for most quests and a decent idea of how you stack up. It is also good for within-build optimization: how does this destiny choice stack up against some other, etc...

I like it because it's easy to solo test, and you don't need to worry that much about avoiding damage, and it doesn't allow for helpless damage.

Is it good for sustained DPS? Well, it can be if you test different cases, like using epic moment vs. not, testing your damage with/without nhb/ef etc...

It's certainly a lot better than people just throwing out random statements like this build does 1/2 the damage of some other build.

It's a shame that people won't post numbers here and just make claims; I guess fear of nerfs, idk. Sounds like you are on a shuri build so post your time.
 
Last edited:

Jaspar

Well-known member
If you can't kill him in 30s then you are not a DPS build, unfortunately.

Given I take 5 x Fusilade Id have to agree. GXB hitting for far less than a regular xbow or repeater - while also firing slower, is quite the feat of planning by SSG.
 

Jaspar

Well-known member
It's a good enough test for 95% of DDO players. Barely anyone is running raids above R1, so it gives a good indication of what your "end boss" DPS is for most quests and a decent idea of how you stack up. It is also good for within-build optimization: how does this destiny choice stack up against some other, etc...

I like it because it's easy to solo test, and you don't need to worry that much about avoiding damage, and it doesn't allow for helpless damage.

Is it good for sustained DPS? Well, it can be if you test different cases, like using epic moment vs. not, testing your damage with/without nhb/ef etc...

It's certainly a lot better than people just throwing out random statements like this build does 1/2 the damage of some other build.

It's a shame that people won't post numbers here and just make claims; I guess fear of nerfs, idk. Sounds like you are on a shuri build so post your time.

SSG doesnt care. They gave up on damage balance a LONG time ago.

We were told we would see regular minor tweaks. We had 2 in a month and then havent had anything in 9 months. Except for a small buff to bow which didnt come close to fixing them.

When every change needs to come with a business plan involving clear increases in profits, things like balance just dont matter.

Plus if everyone just hurried up and played the same 2 or 3 builds thst would make their jobs way easier.
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
SSG doesnt care. They gave up on damage balance a LONG time ago.

We were told we would see regular minor tweaks. We had 2 in a month and then havent had anything in 9 months. Except for a small buff to bow which didnt come close to fixing them.

When every change needs to come with a business plan involving clear increases in profits, things like balance just dont matter.

Plus if everyone just hurried up and played the same 2 or 3 builds thst would make their jobs way easier.
I agree we will see if anything comes out of the balance pass this fall, I am not very hopeful.
 

Jaspar

Well-known member
Given I take 5 x Fusilade Id have to agree. GXB hitting for far less than a regular xbow or repeater - while also firing slower, is quite the feat of planning by SSG.

I just tested it. 2 minutes and 20 seconds is what I took with my 4 Arty, 16 AT GXB build. I dont have the best gear or that many past lives but I do have Acrida so the weapon itself is pretty good.

I had to heal once and also had to keep moving the entire time. I dont have Shot on the Run and noticed I had *many* glancing blows with a Greater Heroism, Precision and Eerie Aim. But my Int is only 75.

During the 30 seconds of Inexorable Advance I did about 40% of my damage, then the remaining 60% of the damage took 110 seconds.
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
I just tested it. 2 minutes and 20 seconds is what I took with my 4 Arty, 16 AT GXB build. I dont have the best gear or that many past lives but I do have Acrida so the weapon itself is pretty good.

I had to heal once and also had to keep moving the entire time. I dont have Shot on the Run and noticed I had *many* glancing blows with a Greater Heroism, Precision and Eerie Aim. But my Int is only 75.

During the 30 seconds of Inexorable Advance I did about 40% of my damage, then the remaining 60% of the damage took 110 seconds.
I suspect many of the ranged balance problems are with burst and burst windows. Shiradi EM and NHB/Fusilade really stand out, especially in combination. It's also coupled to monster hit points where anything you can finish in one burst gets really easy. This is perhaps not fully reflected in the current difficulty scaling and balance discussion.

Shuri may be the only ranged build that has substantially higher sustained damage, due to stacking of double shot. It's slow leveling and lacking AoE options make it not great for anything except end-game sustained damage though. I think this is why we hear less complaints about Shuri.
 
Last edited:

Drachmor

Well-known member
Go kill experiment Y in Lamordia, take hp/kill time, do it 3-4 times, and average your DPS.

If you can get 100K+, that is good burst DPS IMO.

I was getting around 120K on a repeater build with so-so gear several updates ago before the cap increase. So I would guess a fully maxed-out repeater is probably more like 150K+.

We will see what the balance pass does; who knows how that will shake out.

For what it's worth, I am currently on Wild Mage sorc half-elf, with CLS and very good gear, and do ~72K DPS on Y.

Casters suck.
Dang I’m honestly surprised at that caster DPS

*Seems high to me, that is! I used to love sorc - any notes on the build?
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
Dang I’m honestly surprised at that caster DPS

*Seems high to me, that is! I used to love sorc - any notes on the build?
I'm guessing it's some variant of the dual mantle HElf Air Savant in the build forum, with one mantle snapshotted by call lightning storm, and triggering the PA mantle with spells.

Best sustained atm I think?

Second best is probably Water Savant with Time Stop (better burst for 10s, then worse).

I was just wondering if you could do competitive 30s burst by spamming thunderbolt + iceberg with Machrotechnic epic moment. You could get cold immunity break now via feat, so you could still run HElf for CLS, just not sure if you can get two decent DPS mantles on it. You could also just do Water Savant w/ Time Stop but now as HElf w/ CLS and pierce feat.
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
Dang I’m honestly surprised at that caster DPS

*Seems high to me, that is! I used to love sorc - any notes on the build?
I think there is only one way other than Trickster: it's half-elf lightning/cold, you basically snapshot draconic mantle onto call lightning storm, switch to primal mantle so double mantle damage and "free action" damage from lightning bolts.

There is a build on the forums; mine is similar. I can PM you the details. Mine is a bit different I am using Ruins as well.
 
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