Dwarf with Dwarven Waraxe and Shield - SWF or THF better?

[Tharikk]

HI,
I'm planning to play a classic "Dwarf with Dwarven Waraxe and Shield" Dragonlord or Fighter build.
I'll do quests and leveling to 30+ (this will be my 3rd life toon), never has done a raid, (but whos knows).

A lot of player say, use SWF for more DPS, the other half say, use THF because of Strikethrough.

So what are your advice?

 

[Hobgoblin]

cant use swf with shields unless in certain cases like bards

 

[Hobgoblin]

Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand. Does not function in animal forms.

 

[Tharikk]

Oh, that was new for me. Thought shield in Off-hand would fit.

THNX !!!

Whats about TWF insted, would it fit with shield, or THF better?

 

[ChickenMobile]

Good advice from Hobgoblin ~ you cannot SWF with a shield.

How I would create a Sword/Board Fighter:

• Take the Shield fighting styles in heroics and then take Two Handed Specialty at level 31. (or do the reverse depending on what you like)
• Be a default Fighter (not dragon lord) and heavily invest in Vanguard enhancements for more damage with shield bashing.
  Strimtom made a pretty comprehensive video guide for Vangard here. Although his character was a Pally, you would probably just replace Knight of the Chalice with figher's Kensai
• Make sure to put on Shield Bashing items. You want to aim around 60% secondary shield bash chance. Again, Strims video would cover why.
• Divine Crusader is the DPS Epic Destiny tree for sword & board. You can pick up Dwaraxe as a favored weapon in Dwarf enhancements for more damage too.

Have fun mah guy!

 

[Hobgoblin]

i say thf then take shield spec at high levels get both

 

[unbongwah]

The simplest approach is probably the best: pure fighter, max STR, take both THF and Shield Mastery feats for leveling - you're a fighter, you can afford the feats, especially if you don't know if you're going to spend time in Legendaries - split your APs between Kensei and Vanguard. If you have Harper Agent unlocked, put some points into INT and take Know the Angles too.

Stalwart Defender is nice but (if you're not actually tanking) unnecessary. And in fact one option for epics is to build around FotW Rage, which wouldn't work with defensive stance. I'm thinking Lawful Neutral with T5 Crusader + T4 FotW + T3 Sentinel if you have enough EDPs.

Of course the galaxy-brain move is to level as a THF build using 2h weapons for better DPS and only switch to S&B much later. But sometimes you want to max your DPS and sometimes you want to be a stubby S&B guy.

 

[Tharikk]

Of course the galaxy-brain move is to level as a THF build using 2h weapons for better DPS and only switch to S&B much later. But sometimes you want to max your DPS and sometimes you want to be a stubby S&B guy.

ATM I'm playing a human Dragonlord (lv32), using Greatsword with all THF feats possible and Fury of the Wild and Legendary Dreadnought as ED.

My planned dwarf is not about to be the best over all, only to be a VERY good "old school" with axe and shield ;-)

 

[Enoach]

I will note that Dwarven War Axe is one of two exotic weapons that benefit from the Two-handed Fighting feats strike through if you are also wearing a shield.

 

[unbongwah]

I'm thinking Lawful Neutral with T5 Crusader + T4 FotW + T3 Sentinel if you have enough EDPs.

To elaborate on this:

Kundarak Vanguard Kensei
Fighter 20
Lawful Neutral Dwarf


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 18. . . . . . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 18. . . .+3. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+2. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .32: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 3. 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .23
Heal. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Search. . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Balance . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Tumble. . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . 10
Jump. . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. .3
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
.2 Fighter: Cleave
.3. . . . : Shield Mastery
.4 Fighter: Great Cleave
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
.6 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
.9. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
10 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
12 Fighter: Greater Two Handed Fighting
14 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion
15. . . . : Greater Shield Mastery
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18. . . . : Dodge
18 Fighter: Mobility
20 Fighter: Whirlwind Attack
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
22 Destiny: Perfect Shield Mastery
24 Epic . : Eerie Aim
25 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting OR Doublestrike
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic . : Toughness OR Epic Fortitude
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane
31 Destiny: Legendary Toughness
33 Epic . : Epic Toughness OR Tactical Mastery
34 Destiny: Titan's Blood


Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)

Kensei (41 AP)

• Kensei Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike With No Thought, Power Surge, One Cut, Alacrity
  1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization: Axes, Action Boost: Haste Boost III, Reed in the Wind III
  2. Weapon Group Specialization: Axes, Ascetic Training: Conditioning II
  3. Weapon Group Specialization: Axes, Shattering Strike: Shattering Strike III, Strength
  4. Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization: Axes, Liquid Courage, Strike at the Heart, Strength
  5. A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One With The Blade, Deadly Strike: Deadly Strike, Keen Edge

Vanguard (21 AP)

• To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II
  1. Shield Specialization I, Shield Smash III
  2. Shield Specialization II, Stunning Shield III
  3. Shield Specialization III, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark

Dwarf (12 AP)

• Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution
  1. Axe Training, Dwarven Armor Mastery III
  2. Axe Training
  3. Axe Training

Harper Agent (6 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
  2. Know the Angles I

Destinies (Spent: 71 (56 +15pdp) / Max: 71 (56 +15pdp) AP)

Divine Crusader (37 AP)

• Just Cause, Confront any Foe, Weather any Blow, Sunder Evil
  1. Divine Smite, Consecration III
  2. Endless Smiting III, Holy Mantle
  3. Strike with Poise III, Crusade, How Dare You Strike Me III
  4. Heavenly Presence, Blessed Strikes III, Cower Before Me, Rend Armor
  5. Mighty Crusade, Bring Down Wrath, Law of the Divine, Blessed Blades, Beckon Divinity

Fury of the Wild (28 AP)

• Die Hard, Die Harder, Die Harderest, Be the Whirlwind
  1. Quick Cutter III, Enduring I
  2. Boulder's Might III, I'm Always Angry I, Primal Scream
  3. Sense Weakness III, Eternal Rage I, Furious III
  4. Top Dog, The Voice of Fury, Unquenchable Rage III

Unyielding Sentinel (6 AP)

• Unyielding
  1. Divine Energy Resistance, Brace for Impact II
  2. Renewal

If you have extra APs, you can put them into Vanguard or Stalwart Defender. If you have more EDPs, you can put them into Sentinel.

Dwarven axes only have 18-20/x4 critical threat range on fighters, so Patience probably isn't worth it.

My planned dwarf is not about to be the best over all, only to be a VERY good "old school" with axe and shield ;-)

Well, this is definitely "old school," I'll let you decide for yourself how good it is.

 

[Contessor]

To elaborate on this:

If you have extra APs, you can put them into Vanguard or Stalwart Defender. If you have more EDPs, you can put them into Sentinel.

Dwarven axes only have 18-20/x4 critical threat range on fighters, so Patience probably isn't worth it.

Well, this is definitely "old school," I'll let you decide for yourself how good it is.

This is a good build, but your vanguard t5/core 6 is wayyyy better.

 

[unbongwah]

This is a good build, but your vanguard t5/core 6 is wayyyy better.

I posted this build before Duergar came out and the +1 critical range bonus was added to the racial tree. Fortunately it's just an Enhancement swap.

 

[Jaspar]

How does shield bash work? Does it happen just by wearing a shield or do you need to block or use a shield bash attack key ?

And how does secondary shield bash work ?

 

[FuzzyDuck81]

Levelling my vanguard I went with the shield mastery & improved shield bashing feats during heroics then relied on cleave & great cleave for AoE damage more than strikethrough (also took improved sunder, it's great), since I was moving between echo of whelm then axe of adaxus for weapon, though with the most recent expansion I'd probably choose the oblivium mattock situationally as the high DC paralysing on that is reliable up to r2 all the way to 20 & even somewhat in epics.

 

[Contessor]

How does shield bash work? Does it happen just by wearing a shield or do you need to block or use a shield bash attack key ?

And how does secondary shield bash work ?

Its an extra strike for secondary. You do not need to shield block, it is automatic.

 

[Contessor]

I posted this build before Duergar came out and the +1 critical range bonus was added to the racial tree. Fortunately it's just an Enhancement swap.

DPS is insane on Vanguard, at least so far through heroics and early epics. Not sure about end game. THF is miserable on a Daxe, but Vanguard attack speed makes it solid, and all the secondary shield bashes are very nice and the additional stun attacks. Doing my last mindcleaver life and pretty happy so far.

 

[unbongwah]

How does shield bash work?

There is both passive and active shield bashing.

Passive works like TWF: i.e. random proc chance on every mainhand attack, but with a 1-second internal cooldown. Improved Shield Bash feat gives +20% proc chance, there's more bonuses in the Vanguard tree and from gear.

Active includes special attacks like Stunning Shield and attacking while holding the Block button. The latter is rarely used, unless for some reason you need to turtle up but still want to get in a few hits (usually to maintain threat).

 

[Jaspar]

DPS is insane on Vanguard, at least so far through heroics and early epics. Not sure about end game. THF is miserable on a Daxe, but Vanguard attack speed makes it solid, and all the secondary shield bashes are very nice and the additional stun attacks. Doing my last mindcleaver life and pretty happy so far.

Does Vanguard work with a buckler or does it need to be a proper shield ?

 

[Hobgoblin]

it does

 

[unbongwah]

Does Vanguard work with a buckler or does it need to be a proper shield ?

Vanguard works with any shield including bucklers. You need a buckler if you're using Swashbuckler's Skirmisher enhancement. Bard + fighter has fallen out of favor vs bard + Dragonlord; but the former is still viable especially if you want to use the Vanguard tree.