ED's for melee

[Marshal_Lannes]

The short answer is there is no clear "best" destiny for the type of melee you describe. Melee destiny is currently set up for imbue (probably taking the Primal mantle then), high alpa strike from Adrenaline, or tactics utilizing dire charge. Shadowdancer is a tree both melee and ranged grab since it gives you a lot of bang for 10-15 points. Without getting too complicated, you can just grab either the Grandmaster mantle or the LD mantle. Both give you 1W. The main difference is you will move faster in GM and in LD you'll debuff targets (so good if you raid). Destines like Fatesinger or Divine Crusader require you to take a lot of filler. Both DC and US are best if you are using a shield. As stated, you can freely experiment and see what you like best. Starting with either LD or GM and Shadowdancer will leave you in a perfectly fine place and give you a starting point on which to base other destinies.

 

[Tilomere]

Draconic is probably the best melee ED for leveling, with something to heal (primal or US). If you don't have Draconic no-fail 1 fort saves reapers and other casters will 1 shot you on a fail with disintegrate. You can't get no-fail 1 fort saves with any other readily available method until level 27 with a feat.

If you are in draconic, might as well build for energy burst/spell powered imbue. Energy Burst into Reborn in Fire works well, even on a twf ranger with only a few metamagic feats.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Draconic is probably the best melee ED for leveling, with something to heal (primal or US). If you don't have Draconic no-fail 1 fort saves reapers and other casters will 1 shot you on a fail with disintegrate. You can't get no-fail 1 fort saves with any other readily available method until level 27 with a feat.

If you are in draconic, might as well build for energy burst/spell powered imbue. Energy Burst into Reborn in Fire works well, even on a twf ranger with only a few metamagic feats.

No, this is madness, and not even the cool kind of Spartan madness where you get to kick a dude down a well.

 

[Aebro Komatme]

No, this is madness, and not even the cool kind of Spartan madness where you get to kick a dude down a well.

You beat me to it.

If one wants to severely gimp their build, do everything that Tilomere suggests.

 

[Aebro Komatme]

Seriously, chasing imbue dice as a pure tempest ranger is a complete and utter waste of time.

 

[FuzzyDuck81]

Seriously, chasing imbue dice as a pure tempest ranger is a complete and utter waste of time.

I wouldn't go that route either, though the no auto-fail on 1 from draconic is a very low hanging fruit & a solid choice.

Personally, i think shadowdancer would be a better bet as shadowstrike is a good damage dealer in it's own right, it's a cleave for handling multiple enemies & dark imbuement adds your sneak attack dice as untyped damage on hits for a little while afterwards - it's easy to boost it by slotting a force spellpower augment or item somewhere too since it scales with the higher of that or melee power & spellpower can go much higher far more easily. Throw in the level drain immunity plus doublestrike & there's a great secondary tree even if you use another option as the main one.

 

[Aebro Komatme]

I wouldn't go that route either, though the no auto-fail on 1 from draconic is a very low hanging fruit & a solid choice.

Personally, i think shadowdancer would be a better bet as shadowstrike is a good damage dealer in it's own right, it's a cleave for handling multiple enemies & dark imbuement adds your sneak attack dice as untyped damage on hits for a little while afterwards - it's easy to boost it by slotting a force spellpower augment or item somewhere too since it scales with the higher of that or melee power & spellpower can go much higher far more easily. Throw in the level drain immunity plus doublestrike & there's a great secondary tree even if you use another option as the main one.

Great points!

 

[Tilomere]

https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/537104-Beautiful-on-the-Inside

Universal build (melee, tank, ranged, caster), including gear set, enhancement setups, example class splits, example feats, destiny setup.

You will notice In the bottom screenshots I was leveling as a ranged DPS in Legendary R8 IOD with draconic + primal (barrier of scales is top toolbar with other buffs, primal abilities on bottom toolbar with other attacks).

So if you are leveling in high skulls IOD, you use universal build (Draconic + Primal + X) with carrion swarm due to not having a save. If you are leveling in explorers or R1 where mob saves are so trivial as to also effectively not have saves and also have low HP to be bursted down, you use energy burst (on everyone, including barbarians). I've tested extensively, and they are the best for everything in between as well.

So Draconic + Primal + X is the best ED setup for leveling anything (Melee, tank, caster, healer, ranged) in any content (explorers, at-lvl R1, midskull legendary reaper, high skull legendary reaper).

 

[Aebro Komatme]

https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/537104-Beautiful-on-the-Inside

Universal build (melee, tank, ranged, caster), including gear set, enhancement setups, example class splits, example feats, destiny setup.

You will notice In the bottom screenshots I was leveling as a ranged DPS in Legendary R8 IOD with draconic + primal (barrier of scales is top toolbar with other buffs, primal abilities on bottom toolbar with other attacks).

So if you are leveling in high skulls IOD, you use universal build (Draconic + Primal + X) with carrion swarm due to not having a save. If you are leveling in explorers or R1 where mob saves are so trivial as to also effectively not have saves and also have low HP to be bursted down, you use energy burst (on everyone, including barbarians). I've tested extensively, and they are the best for everything in between as well.

So Draconic + Primal + X is the best ED setup for leveling anything (Melee, tank, caster, healer, ranged) in any content (explorers, at-lvl R1, midskull legendary reaper, high skull legendary reaper).

I guarantee you that no tempest worth their salt uses your melee cookie cutter garbage at end game, not will they use that ludicrousness to level up regardless of difficulty.

Oh, and good job conflating your ranged toon with a tempest.

 

[Teh_Troll]

So Draconic + Primal + X is the best ED setup for leveling anything (Melee, tank, caster, healer, ranged) in any content (explorers, at-lvl R1, midskull legendary reaper, high skull legendary reaper).

No, just no.

 

[Teth]

No, just no.

Well he's like 40% right, casters and healers prolly use a similarish setup; but like most stuff he's wrong about the rest.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

While it depends a lot on what your build is, heres a rough estimate comparing primal vs +1W and 10 melee power from cores:

500 Spell power, 300 MP, 100 DS, 200 base damage, 15-18x4, 19-20x6, 2 attacks per second TWF:

Primal procs: 32*9.5 *6 spell power *2 DS *3 procs/5 seconds = 2188.8 dps

1[w] mantle: 7.5 *2 crits* 4 melee power * 3.65 DS * 2 attacks = 438 dps
10 melee power: 200 *2 crits * 0.1 mp * 3.65 DS * 2 attacks = 292 dps
Plus an additional ~200 dps if you use adrenaline? (estimate)

So primal can be roughly twice as much dps even for basic melees without an imbue, and significantly more for spell power/imbue builds. Of course, investing in 500 spell power for a melee is not always feasible and the additional benefits of melee mantles (helpless damage, etc..) also should be considered.

 

[Tilomere]

500 Spell power, 300 MP, 100 DS, 200 base damage, 15-18x4, 19-20x6, 2 attacks per second TWF:

So primal can be roughly twice as much dps even for basic melees without an imbue, and significantly more for spell power/imbue builds. Of course, investing in 500 spell power for a melee is not always feasible and the additional benefits of melee mantles (helpless damage, etc..) also should be considered.

The mechanics you modeled aren't quite right and are a fair bit more favorable, and TWF (tempest) leveling builds don't have 500 SP or 300 MP at level 20. But it is nice to see that even if they did behave like that and have those stats at level 20, my universal build still comes out on top.

A base level 20 leveling TWF tempest or ranged character has around 40 static melee/ranged power and 300 spell power, +/- before ED/Sentience.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

The mechanics you modeled aren't quite right and are a fair bit more favorable, and TWF (tempest) leveling builds don't have 500 SP or 300 MP at level 20. But it is nice to see that even if they did behave like that and have those stats at level 20, my universal build still comes out on top.

A base level 20 leveling TWF tempest or ranged character has around 40 static melee/ranged power and 300 spell power, +/- before ED/Sentience.

I agree that many people are sleeping on the power of primal mantle for melee, especially for epic leveling where its much easier to boost spell power over melee power. I disagree that its a universal best option though. Other benefits like helpless damage are imporant, and personally I prefer leveling melees in GMOF when possible for a variety of reason.

The point I was trying to make is just that primal can do roughly twice the dps of a standard melee mantle if that's all you care about. And yes, its a rough approximation using arbitrary stats, each build will be slightly different.

 

[Lempest]

FotW looks nice on the surface but its upper tier is very point-hungry compared to some other destinies. However it can add a subtantial boost to tankiness if you are feeling fragile. Adrenaline can be a strong physical damage boost.

If your base build is lacking any type of vulnerability debuff LD tier 4 mantle (or DC tier 5 ability) offers vulnerability (up to 20 stacks) which can be also combined with SD tier 4 (-9 enemy PRR and MRR).

If you are heavy on sneak attack (and can invest in force spellpower), the epic drike of SD with dark imbuement can be fun to play with. Not insanely high numbers but still a nice amount of untyped damage that can't be blocked and can be multiplied with the DoD from tempest's tier 5.

SD core 3 can also help you gain basic access to evasion or complete it, depending on your base build.

If you have a lot of melee power, Fatesinger's epic strike is very fun since it adds a ton of sonic damage which scales on melee power. Pair it with harmonic resonance to inflict sonic vulnerability on enemies.

PA's mantle as many have said before does seem to add quite a punch if you are into spellsword type builds.

In conclusion there are quite a lot of fun choices that you need to try out for yourself. Either compensate for something you're lacking or try to compound your main damage with appropriate buffs and debuffs.

 

[Spook]

The short answer is there is no clear "best" destiny for the type of melee you describe. Melee destiny is currently set up for imbue (probably taking the Primal mantle then), high alpa strike from Adrenaline, or tactics utilizing dire charge. Shadowdancer is a tree both melee and ranged grab since it gives you a lot of bang for 10-15 points. Without getting too complicated, you can just grab either the Grandmaster mantle or the LD mantle. Both give you 1W. The main difference is you will move faster in GM and in LD you'll debuff targets (so good if you raid). Destines like Fatesinger or Divine Crusader require you to take a lot of filler. Both DC and US are best if you are using a shield. As stated, you can freely experiment and see what you like best. Starting with either LD or GM and Shadowdancer will leave you in a perfectly fine place and give you a starting point on which to base other destinies.

DC has 1W for favored weapons in Tier 3

While it depends a lot on what your build is, heres a rough estimate comparing primal vs +1W and 10 melee power from cores:

500 Spell power, 300 MP, 100 DS, 200 base damage, 15-18x4, 19-20x6, 2 attacks per second TWF:

Primal procs: 32*9.5 *6 spell power *2 DS *3 procs/5 seconds = 2188.8 dps

1[w] mantle: 7.5 *2 crits* 4 melee power * 3.65 DS * 2 attacks = 438 dps
10 melee power: 200 *2 crits * 0.1 mp * 3.65 DS * 2 attacks = 292 dps
Plus an additional ~200 dps if you use adrenaline? (estimate)

So primal can be roughly twice as much dps even for basic melees without an imbue, and significantly more for spell power/imbue builds. Of course, investing in 500 spell power for a melee is not always feasible and the additional benefits of melee mantles (helpless damage, etc..) also should be considered.

Not a fan of this comparison as its rarely down to just the mantle when deciding EDs - eg getting 100% doublestrike without 3x melee ED is tough for most builds

 

[Tilomere]

Not a fan of this comparison as its rarely down to just the mantle when deciding EDs - eg getting 100% doublestrike without 3x melee ED is tough for most builds

Primal Avatar Temp hp will bring a universal build character to 4.75k hp while leveling before you get to good legendary 29 gear, draconic scales and blood on top from universal build will bring it to 5.3k. 5k+ hp on a leveling character before it gets to good legendary 29 gear is also tough for most builds.

 

[KylerrTheMajty]

another thread that starts to basically say how far melee are behind casters

thats why i want to say thanks too ssg for this , always was a melee player and about like 2 years now i get promoted at work , started study (soon will be engineer) and all that's bc i only do past life's now bc of how crapy are melee

I realized this today that would not happend if melee would be fun at end game so THANKS GUYS! YOU ROCK!

 

[Col Kurtz]

another thread that starts to basically say how far melee are behind casters

thats why i want to say thanks too ssg for this , always was a melee player and about like 2 years now i get promoted at work , started study (soon will be engineer) and all that's bc i only do past life's now bc of how crapy are melee

I realized this today that would not happend if melee would be fun at end game so THANKS GUYS! YOU ROCK!

I see your point but, I started this just to get a few opinions for my friend.. who has a 1st life lvl 20 character. I was curious what a 1st life player had available and what they would need to maybe unlock to get their character in the right direction. Little of the discussion has had much to do with that.

Players rolling with maxed out ed's and lvl30+ gear is not where I intended the discussion to go. Though, it is interesting and informative. *Appreciate the different ideas since I would like to go back to melee at some point. I am not sure it's worth the pain. I stopped playing ddo altogether about 6 years ago because they nerfed the melee build I was using at the time.

I don't even have room to store both heroic Tr gear/epic Tr gear, and lv 30-32 sets. Until I complete heroic and epic TR's ...lvl30-32 is not realistic for me to waste time on. I have 6 heroic pl's and about 15 epic, and 13 reaper points...So, I'll likely never play 30-32? Those groups have gone past the point of casual players jumping in to do r1-r4 >they do r4-r10 from what I have seen posted. DDO has stretched the player base out into a variety of types depending on what your goals are, and the maxed out play is where TR completions appear to be focused?

Best of luck everyone...and happy hunting Wherever you decide to play ddo. >you guys can continue to toss out ED ideas for end game/that's cool