Eldricht Knight Advice

Looking to build a melee Eldricht Knight. I really don't want to be an undead. I have seen SWF and 2HF builds - all with palemaster... was wondering if a twf is a viable EK build. Would like to splash one level of dark hunter to be solo disarm and open locks and maybe grab the wolf. I know I am all over the place. Is any of the above viable? And builds that match the above?
 

unbongwah

Well-known member
Warforged is the obvious choice for Eldritch Knight without Pale Master. Combat style of your choice, 41 Eldritch Knight (capstone) / 12 Harper Agent (INT to damage) is the baseline AP split (presuming pure wizard), leaving at least 27 APs for other things. I usually put at least 11 into Warforged tree for +15 Melee Power.
 
Is pale master or warforged the only options for self healing? Not sure I understand dragon lord as part of EK. Are you saying DL is the best 2wf? Is 2wf viable with some kind of EK build. I'm looking for a 2WF gish type build.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
If you want EK melee of any type you really want the 20 capstone so no Dragonlord.

If you want to cherry-pick some of the EK enhancements for a non-melee build then you can multi-class however you see fit.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
To get ek capstone do you need to be wizard 20? Or can you have a couple of dips?
Capstone on any class-based enhancement tree requires level 20 in the class and 40+ AP's in the tree.

Universal enhancement trees only require 40+ AP's in the tree.
 

unbongwah

Well-known member
Is pale master or warforged the only options for self healing?
There's Aasimar Healing Hands or halfling Dragonmarks, but those are limited-use-per-rest abilities. You can access ED healing abilities like everyone else in epic levels. But why make heroic-leveling harder on yourself by giving up what Warforged (or Pale Master) wizards can do well?
To get ek capstone do you need to be wizard 20? Or can you have a couple of dips?
Class capstones require pure 20 builds. Universal Enhancement tree capstones are available to anyone. E.g., wizard 18 / Dark Hunter 1 / fighter 1 with 41 Vistani Knife Fighter / 12 Harper Agent as a SWF or TWF dagger build.
 
Can an EK do well with a swords twf build? If that's not possible thinking maybe bastard sword swf. I already have a pally 2HF.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
This is just my opinion but I believe that you are best off either THF Greatsword or SWF w/Vistani Knife Fighter and Dagger.

There are other builds that work but in terms of erasing packs those are the two best options.

I have done a THF EK/PM/HA Staff build and it was good but Greatswords are better, both in overall damage and in selection of named weapons.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
This is just my opinion but I believe that you are best off either THF Greatsword or SWF w/Vistani Knife Fighter and Dagger.

There are other builds that work but in terms of erasing packs those are the two best options.

I have done a THF EK/PM/HA Staff build and it was good but Greatswords are better, both in overall damage and in selection of named weapons.
Why would you go great sword on an EK? greataxe or falchion are both better.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Why would you go great sword on an EK? greataxe or falchion are both better.

Greatsword is superior to both of those weapons in terms of raw numbers. 8.4/7.5/6.5.

There are additional factors for both comparisons also.

Greatsword has a smoother animation than Great Axe and when moving it does even more damage because of the animation.

Greatsword has better reach than Falchion and more reliably engages multiple targets as you sweep by.

I've been playing this type of build solo for 5+ years, occasionally switching to a caster-centric build, either PM or Bard. In that time I have tried every other reasonable weapon including Staff, Great Axe, Falchion, Hand Axe, Bastard Sword, Dwarven Axe, Repeating Heavy Xbow (don't ask) and Great Xbow (ditto).

Of all the weapons the ones that are most successful at THF are Greatswords because the baseline is just better, the animation is butter smooth and there is a much better selection of named weapons across the leveling arc.

The ones most successful at SWF are Daggers because Vistani Knife Fighter.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
Greatsword is superior to both of those weapons in terms of raw numbers. 8.4/7.5/6.5.

There are additional factors for both comparisons also.

Greatsword has a smoother animation than Great Axe and when moving it does even more damage because of the animation.

Greatsword has better reach than Falchion and more reliably engages multiple targets as you sweep by.

I've been playing this type of build solo for 5+ years, occasionally switching to a caster-centric build, either PM or Bard. In that time I have tried every other reasonable weapon including Staff, Great Axe, Falchion, Hand Axe, Bastard Sword, Dwarven Axe, Repeating Heavy Xbow (don't ask) and Great Xbow (ditto).

Of all the weapons the ones that are most successful at THF are Greatswords because the baseline is just better, the animation is butter smooth and there is a much better selection of named weapons across the leveling arc.

The ones most successful at SWF are Daggers because Vistani Knife Fighter.
Ok, weapon dice are not the right thing to compare THF weapons on. We care about crit for weapons, because even 1 more crit unit (5% more damage) translates to vastly more damage than +1 raw damage. EK in particular should care a lot about multi, because eldritch tempest is an insane attack that heavily favors a great axe crit profile.

Mutually cosmetic weapons share animations—GS/falchion have the same animation set, reach, etc.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Ok, weapon dice are not the right thing to compare THF weapons on. We care about crit for weapons, because even 1 more crit unit (5% more damage) translates to vastly more damage than +1 raw damage. EK in particular should care a lot about multi, because eldritch tempest is an insane attack that heavily favors a great axe crit profile.

Mutually cosmetic weapons share animations—GS/falchion have the same animation set, reach, etc.
So explain why you are recommending a 5% x3 crit weapon (Great Axe) over a 10% x2 crit weapon (Great Sword)?

And BTW, no theory here, I have actually tested most of these and I can say pretty conclusively that unless you have a special crit profile from a named weapon (Carnifex) you're better off with a Greatsword. It just works better and clears faster.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
So explain why you are recommending a 5% x3 crit weapon (Great Axe) over a 10% x2 crit weapon (Great Sword)?
Crit profiles with improved crit and +1/+1:
Falchion: 14-20x3 (7*2=14 extra crit units)
GS: 16-20x3 (5*2=10 extra crit units)
GAxe: 18-20x4 (3*3=9 extra crit units)

So great axe looks bad. However, on an EK, eldritch tempest is a really important attack for pack clearing, and comes with +3/+10 multi/range.

For that attack, GAxe goes to 8-20x7=78 extra crit units vs 6-20x6=75 extra crit units. Adrenaline is even more dramatic, and is what puts GAxe in contention in general. I'd personally lean towards falchion, because it's just a better greatsword for everyone except paladins, but great axe is very viable on an EK because of special attacks.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
I see part of the problem here. You're using FotW as one of your ED's and I understand why. However I've always used other ED's as the primaries because they make the spell damage just rock, alongside the melee damage which is the baseline AE.

I put Arcane Tempest down or Acid Well and then fight in that and stuff just melts. If I'm at all worried about the melee damage that might come in at some point I cast Incendiary Cloud and the mobs are all blind.

I would recommend that EK's use an arcane ED because it meshes very well with everything they do.

FotW is better for a non-arcane melee.
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
I see part of the problem here. You're using FotW as one of your ED's and I understand why. However I've always used other ED's as the primaries because they make the spell damage just rock, alongside the melee damage which is the baseline AE.

I put Arcane Tempest down or Acid Well and then fight in that and stuff just melts. If I'm at all worried about the melee damage that might come in at some point I cast Incendiary Cloud and the mobs are all blind.

I would recommend that EK's use an arcane ED because it meshes very well with everything they do.

FotW is better for a non-arcane melee.
It still remains that there's literally no reason to use great sword over falchion.
 
Guess I'm dropping 2WF and going with 2hf. I'm only level 4. Should I respec or just start over? Going PM as well. Which one should I go for? Wrath or Vampire or Lich?
 
Also, for the dark hunter wolf. Does it's level depend in your DH level? Ie if I only take 1 DH level it will forever remain level 1 making it a waste of enhancements...?
 
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