End Game Shooter DPS-Up Fun-Down

[AMess]

I've been taking a break from DDO b/c...well DDO is in a transitional state. Logged in for the loot bonus week to try for a MD artifact. My arti is hitting harder, but the fun factor is way down. The lag is noticeably less, but it's absolutely still there...hard target in melee range flat terrain and shot misses are present in every 8 to 12 encounters.

I think the real drag for the arti is there's just so much time when there is nothing to do. It feels like the attack rotation is Hunts End, watch others play, fire active attack, check the clock, fire 3rd active attack, take a puff, then move onto next mob...I get a handful of attacks and if one misses for any reason, it's real bad b/c I feel like I'm watching a movie instead of playing in an interactive environment.

I also feel a bit bad when pressing Endless Fuselage now b/c according to U70 release notes, it's "infamous". Is it frowned upon to be an arti now?

I could adapt and re-roll into a different play style, but I'd barely broken in the arti when it got fun-nuked & I think to myself what's the point, if designers are comfortable making drastic changes to a legacy playstyles b/c of changes they introduced in U69 and farming ultra rare MD loot is crazy hard even on loot boost weeks...I guess I need another break.

 

[DBZ]

Champ archers also hit like trucks now

 

[Yeet]

Archers would like a word ... and so would ... monks, warlocks, alchemists, favored soul, end game reaper casters, warlocks and monks again, tempest twf, draconic breath, mm shiradi builds, exalted angel healing aura, and I am certain more ...

Are you new to this club, or have you just ignored what has been going on all along?

This is usual modus operandi. Nerf hammers from orbit rather than skillful modifications. Sooner or later one just becomes numb to it.

 

[Vua]

Archers would like a word ... and so would ... monks, warlocks, alchemists, favored soul, end game reaper casters, warlocks and monks again, tempest twf, draconic breath, mm shiradi builds, exalted angel healing aura, and I am certain more ...

Are you new to this club, or have you just ignored what has been going on all along?

This is usual modus operandi. Nerf hammers from orbit rather than skillful modifications. Sooner or later one just becomes numb to it.

And somewhere in there my wallet shook off the numbness and closed up.

 

[kmoustakas]

Archers would like a word ... and so would ... monks, warlocks, alchemists, favored soul, end game reaper casters, warlocks and monks again, tempest twf, draconic breath, mm shiradi builds, exalted angel healing aura, and I am certain more ...

Are you new to this club, or have you just ignored what has been going on all along?

This is usual modus operandi. Nerf hammers from orbit rather than skillful modifications. Sooner or later one just becomes numb to it.

You can't list all that and not mention exploiter ranger!

When you are holding a hammer, everything looks like a nerf!

 

[Cildar]

The difference in the Arti nerf is that they did not intend to nerf arti's who were not over powered. They just wanted to fix the lag. The problem is that they made a ****** pass at it despite people who play that class telling them that the simple double shot buff was not going to make the class get back to the same damage because the way you build an arti relies on the effects of the speedshots. They left in the long animation lead up to endless fusilade which made things worse. They did not up the percentage chance of an effect landing to compensate for the decrease in shots and they did not expand the aoe at all so we can't clear groups of trash in anything approaching the same way with could with fast shots.

RIght now I actually do MORE damage to raid mobs when I can stand still and just shoot with pushing three buttons. In reaper or in just levelling, it's way more boring than it was and way slower.

Basically, they just did most basic change and ignored the people that play artificer.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Archers would like a word ... and so would ... monks, warlocks, alchemists, favored soul, end game reaper casters, warlocks and monks again, tempest twf, draconic breath, mm shiradi builds, exalted angel healing aura, and I am certain more ...

Are you new to this club, or have you just ignored what has been going on all along?

This is usual modus operandi. Nerf hammers from orbit rather than skillful modifications. Sooner or later one just becomes numb to it.

Yet overall power levels are higher than ever at every level of the game. Funny how that works.

 

[woq]

Agreed on most of the talk on Repeater. I never disagreed with the notion that repeaters are less fun now, but heavily disagreed on the "nerfsayers" in terms of power. It's an important distinction to make when you talk about the impact of a change and not acknowledging the power was silly in the previous threads. I've also noticed a considerable decrease in lag with multiple artificers doing their thing in raids/reaper groups but could be in my head.

I think artificers desperately need something that isn't just pewpewpewing at the target to do between reloads. What should that be? No clue. Maybe utility, debuff spells, working decent runearms that go off faster? They feel incredibly slow to play right now as was aptly described in OP.

With the nerf to fusilade and reducing shots they could probably walk back some of the reloading speed decrease to make it feel just a little bit less sluggish while still achieving the lag goals. They hit repeater from all sides. I just don't know how they would have to compensate then to nerf the current damage, because if they make repeaters close to previous speed then the full doubleshot will be too good in endgame. Maybe drop doubleshot efficiency a bit in return to compromise? I don't know. What would you do?

----------
Where does the narrative come from that monks are bad? They're one of the better classes. Did I miss some colossal nerfs that made them less brainless or something? A good monk is always such a large boon to any group, raid or otherwise. Jade strike, elemental words, good rescue potential, good damage, zips around and can do side objectives nice and cozy - can get to places other classes can't, is a great "farmer" and carry at lower difficulties... So many good things about them. The biggest issue I can see is that their MRR/DC problems can be hard to solve until later and require effort to deal with but that does not make the class itself weak - these are solvable problems for an otherwise very powerful and unique class.

If I had a "buff these" -list, I'd go to:

Spoiler: Ramblings on Warlock/SF/Blightcaster/Wildmage/Warchanter, capstones and newer classes

- [blaster] Warlocks for endgame and ES/Acolyte trees in general - the melee aspects fall flat, 18 core blasting speed doesn't work and blasters seem to have scaling issues. I think it'd be cool if Acolytes could be in Demonic Symbiosis transformation form full time, and only the fire healing aspect and fear on demand would be on cooldown.

- Sacred Fist (not the sacred fist as a paladinspell carrier for other classes, but actual Sacred Fist - the monk looking abomination in paladin outfit that lacks the good utility and dodgy-tankness of monks and the damage of paladins and end up just sort of... being there). I fail to see why I would ever play this class besides for the flavor or as a paladin spell carrier for classes with better trees.

- Blightcaster - their forms in particular. Wolf tree seems like an afterthought. Main defensive mechanism requires Animal Empathy charges.. That they don't have... Ok.? But also something to scale the caster variants properly to endgame since they lack normal ways of druidic utility. And where's the proper tree support for their forms? I fail to see why I would ever play this class besides for the flavor.

- Wild Mage (again, where's the scaling to endgame? Rob them of their defenses (EK), gotta give something that scales past low/medium heroics). I only see Wild Mages as afk bots for chests/pulls and when people play them to get the past life, or as a carrier for other classes for MCL. They remind me of Sacred Fist - few seem to play them for the class itself in Epic + content.

- Warchanter - their cores are too weak, especially the capstones. Swash/Warchanter capstones look more like lvl 12/18 cores at best and swash really could use a +1 thing in T5 that helps them either offensively or with utility. Skaldic Scream could have a cd of 45 seconds and still be subpar as a Capstone. Maybe with a cd of 30 seconds it'd be *decent* down from TWO MINUTES to paint a picture - but the flat stats it gives are also atrocious.

All of the above are far worse than Monks for the content I play, but may be better (?) in Heroics and Hardcore leagues. But my view is heavily skewed for the endgame of things and these, in particular SF, Blightcaster, Warlock - are classes that excel in earlier portions of the game. Is it ok that some classes are good early and bad later, and vice versa? Maybe, but I find it a bit disappointing.

In general I think all capstones should bring some unique taste and aspect in terms of buffs, auras, debuffs, utility, truly powerful activated abilities like Ravager, War Priest, Paladin, Soul Eater, Renegade Mastermaker capstones that makes you think "damn, I'm glad we have x in our group" that nobody else does quite the same and Artificers could get some of that too.

A lot of the newer stuff other than Dragon Lords seem to either work as builders for other stuff or fail to scale to endgame. What's up with with the low MCL's and poorly scaling abilities and lack of providing truly unique benefit to the group aside from unique playstyle? They all play out differently to something that exists but they fail to provide unique niches for the group.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Instead of nerfing the actual animation speed they should have just made repeaters a single physics check/shot and convert the 'extra' bolts to +100 doubleshot. ie repeater proficiency grants +200% doubleshot by default (while using repeaters), expanded clip would be another +100%.

This way it would have even fewer physics checks/shots to cause lag than it does currently, and it would maintain the same feel (just with fewer numbers scrolling)

 

[Tanis]

Yet overall power levels are higher than ever at every level of the game. Funny how that works.

Incorrect

 

[EinarMal]

I think at cap my damage is the same-ish maybe better, I spent a +20 heart and had to change gear, feats, enhancemnts etc...

I think there is less incentive to MC now, I think having the 3rd AOE makes inquisitive the go to 2nd tree for repeater builds. It makes trash clearing bearable. With 41 BE, 31 Inquisitive and 10 Harper, there is no points to do anything else.

It does feel worse for sure, even though its not less DPS, it feels awful but works about the same.

 

[Ungermax]

Sluggish feels like the right word. Yes I can kill things. But when I am attacking, half the time Im not actually shooting.

Im not against all of the changes, the idea of the three bolts firing slower isnt all that bad. But the reload time is huge now, even with Rapid Reload. I havent run anything on my main since the change as Im on Cormyr... Here on my "main" Im only level 4 and Ive just make an Iconic 14 arty 1 rogue Shadar Kai to farm gear in advance, after running both a bit everything is just so slow now. I think they have slowed it down just a bit too much.

If I could have one change, it would be that Rapid Reload isnt reduced quite as far. Maybe just change it back to the old version but make it require level 12 or something.

 

[Yeet]

Yet overall power levels are higher than ever at every level of the game. Funny how that works.

Oh right, then there's this guy with his 3D surround sound ostrich hole. Must be nice living in an alternate reality.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Oh right, then there's this guy with his 3D surround sound ostrich hole. Must be nice living in an alternate reality.

You tell me. The reality is certainly not that the devs only nerfs and players are getting weaker and weaker over time.

Certain builds hit speed bumps in the otherwise steep powercreep curve, sure, but that does not mean that the overall trend is downwards.

 

[woq]

I think at cap my damage is the same-ish maybe better, I spent a +20 heart and had to change gear, feats, enhancemnts etc...

I think there is less incentive to MC now, I think having the 3rd AOE makes inquisitive the go to 2nd tree for repeater builds. It makes trash clearing bearable. With 41 BE, 31 Inquisitive and 10 Harper, there is no points to do anything else.

It does feel worse for sure, even though its not less DPS, it feels awful but works about the same.

I came to the opposite conclusion. Expanded clip - while still stellar - is less mandatory than before. This opens up choices. More build options further due to active attacks being relatively worse if you have tons of them and it's more worth to invest in a few very strong ones. 5 tumble charges has more value than before.

Tankier setups utilizing Paladin spells on warforged/bladeforged + trees are now an interesting choice for personal power and durability. Warchanter tree as main tree has potential if you have a completionist build with racials and universal tomes on a gnome.

Heck, T5 dragon lord cha based variants even have potential.

In general 27-29 points-in-BE builds are now back in business more than ever with all the leeway your imagination gives way for.


I'm gonna be running either the warchanter variant or dws t5 cannon variant next and see how it feels, but I don't expect it to be some supreme trash mower. I expect more big ass cannon and/or party utility in endgame than jack of all heroic level boosters.

 

[Tanis]

You tell me. The reality is certainly not that the devs only nerfs and players are getting weaker and weaker over time.

Certain builds hit speed bumps in the otherwise steep powercreep curve, sure, but that does not mean that the overall trend is downwards.

Trend does not negate nerfs

 

[Tilomere]

• Shoot First: AoE Ranged Attack: Deals +40% Damage. This attack can fire as many shots as your crossbow does normally (Note: 2 times for dual crossbows, 3 times for repeaters). On successful damage, this causes your opponent to take "Shot Wound". (Cooldown: 6 seconds) Note: Shot Wound deals 1d6 damage per Character Level every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.

1. So um, throw 5 shurikens at 500 power downstream with this attack. As an add-on damage hit effect, it is multiplied by number of hits?
2. Then end up at:
3. 5x34d6x7(application + 6 ticks)*11 (1+200% RP)*2 (debuffs or helpless) = 91k
4. This attack, between base and dot, hits for ~100k AoE on a 6 second cooldown...

Ranged is simply understanding to spam this attack on any build, at any level, in any content, at any difficulty and everything will melt. Some modes will have stronger dots, others will have more applications. Use DWS or HW for ranged power for this attack. I know it seems like there is nothing to do, or complex, or that dps is down somehow, somewhere, but ranged really is that simple.

Seriously, ranged period regardless of what weapon you use at level 3 with Shoot First become solid in heroics, and the math above says they never stop being solid.

 

[Tanis]

• Shoot First: AoE Ranged Attack: Deals +40% Damage. This attack can fire as many shots as your crossbow does normally (Note: 2 times for dual crossbows, 3 times for repeaters). On successful damage, this causes your opponent to take "Shot Wound". (Cooldown: 6 seconds) Note: Shot Wound deals 1d6 damage per Character Level every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.

1. So um, throw 5 shurikens at 500 power downstream with this attack. As an add-on damage hit effect, it is multiplied by number of hits?
2. Then end up at:
3. 5x34d6x7(application + 6 ticks)*11 (1+200% RP)*2 (debuffs or helpless) = 91k
4. This attack, between base and dot, hits for ~100k AoE on a 6 second cooldown...

Ranged is simply understanding to spam this attack on any build, at any level, in any content, at any difficulty and everything will melt. Some modes will have stronger dots, others will have more applications. Use DWS or HW for ranged power for this attack. I know it seems like there is nothing to do, or complex, or that dps is down somehow, somewhere, but ranged really is that simple.

Seriously, ranged period regardless of what weapon you use at level 3 with Shoot First become solid in heroics, and the math above says they never stop being solid.

While this may be true

It shouldn’t be to use or be lacking really disappointing

 

[Tilomere]

If you use a macro program to multiple tab target between repeater shots, you can put lethal on an entire leveling R1 pack in a single button press.

 

[Tilomere]

While this may be true

It shouldn’t be to use or be lacking really disappointing

Haven't ranged players more or less all been asking for better heroic leveling for the last 15 years? Now that SSG grants their request, it is really disappointing?