ChickenMobile
Well-known member
It is genuinely frustrating that if a mob is running sideways and they are selected, all attacks will miss with lower bab on ranged builds because projectiles are slow AF.
I agree with this
Eobaarde's First Build Post: A Thrower that Doesn't Suck to Level? Tomahawk Thrower
- Thread starter Lanerz
- Start date
I agree with this
Ying
5000+ hours played
Great suggestion. Throwers need the floor raised.
It's not a surprise to see a clickbait thread title claiming throwers don't suck to level, just to find out THF is suggested the first 15 levels...
Clickbait was certainly not the intention, but compared to other builds that rely on later feat swaps or a full respec, running a raging str based barbarian is IMO much easier to level.
I think we can all agree that the floor needs to be raised to actually be able to use throwing weapons and have them viable at lower levels, but thats not the reality of the game right now.
The purpose of the build as I mentioned was to make something fun and off meta (not shuri or xbow) that delivers at endgame without having to completely respec the toon using lesser hearts or feat swaps as those are resource intensive/expensive.
Is this 100% optimized for leveling? No. But compared to the alternatives I do think it is *less bad* for sure.
I wish I would have seen this build earlier when I was doing my similar build. Nice build. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in here.
I ran a Duergar Mindcleaver 16DH/3Bard/1Fighter (because i'm too cheap to change it out for something else) split myself using throwing axes. I got similar stats as you for damage, with obviously a bit less damage as I did not have rages. But i also was able to get multitude of missiles using Mindcleavers enhancement of making them simple weapons. Not to mention a few other nice things like the damage/to-hit from the axe damage line and also some more damage/defenses from the growth line and getting to level from 15, which is still a pain, but at least it's 15 less levels.
I did not use vistani and instead did core 4 in DH to get opportune moment for lots of extra sneak attack damage (also paired with the invis spell from duergar so every battle just cast invis for cheap and get another 16 sneak dice).
I think everything else was fairly similar. I chose a few different things in the ED's and a bit different gear, but that's all just personal taste. But like you, I loved the huge crits almost 1/3 of the time and the huge sneak damage numbers too (I forget the total dice...40-something maybe?).
I ran a Duergar Mindcleaver 16DH/3Bard/1Fighter (because i'm too cheap to change it out for something else) split myself using throwing axes. I got similar stats as you for damage, with obviously a bit less damage as I did not have rages. But i also was able to get multitude of missiles using Mindcleavers enhancement of making them simple weapons. Not to mention a few other nice things like the damage/to-hit from the axe damage line and also some more damage/defenses from the growth line and getting to level from 15, which is still a pain, but at least it's 15 less levels.
I did not use vistani and instead did core 4 in DH to get opportune moment for lots of extra sneak attack damage (also paired with the invis spell from duergar so every battle just cast invis for cheap and get another 16 sneak dice).
I think everything else was fairly similar. I chose a few different things in the ED's and a bit different gear, but that's all just personal taste. But like you, I loved the huge crits almost 1/3 of the time and the huge sneak damage numbers too (I forget the total dice...40-something maybe?).
TedSandyman
Well-known member
I would have thought the dwarven thrower would have some benefit added considering the new Duergar race, but sadly, that isn't the case. It is just a meh throwing ax that only dwarves can use for some reason. It would have been nice if they had included an option with Duergar that might have made a viable, easier to create, thrower.
Bjond
Well-known member
The problem is DPS. VKF gives daggers more of a boost than the 10~15% from CM+1 due to DS+30% and RP+20. STR/Brutal over DEX/SWTE greatly reduces doubleshot (~40% loss). You're trading DS+70% RP+20 for DMG+20~30%, landing the build well below classic VKF thrower.
IMHO, changing to DEX-based, but keeping Brutal should be a very large net win, but I don't think it will make up the difference versus VKF.
VERY rough DPS rankings for ranged are about like this.
BTW, this doesn't make your build unplayable for questing or raiding. A top ranged build is incredibly strong -- strong enough to nearly carry a raid @ R1 and lower. I'm just adding some context for how raid-focus builds see the "doesn't suck" part of the OP title.
IMHO, changing to DEX-based, but keeping Brutal should be a very large net win, but I don't think it will make up the difference versus VKF.
VERY rough DPS rankings for ranged are about like this.
- VKF T.Dagger @ 40%
- Repeater @ 60% (zero EF)
- Shuriken @ 80%
- Repeater @ 100% (infinite EF)
BTW, this doesn't make your build unplayable for questing or raiding. A top ranged build is incredibly strong -- strong enough to nearly carry a raid @ R1 and lower. I'm just adding some context for how raid-focus builds see the "doesn't suck" part of the OP title.
The reason you took 6 Dark Hunter instead of 12 Barb on your live build is you need the 6th Dark Hunter level to get sniper shot, so I'd suggest that's pretty core to making this good.
Looks fun, been thinking of something similar and also excited that there are viable if not meta options for throwing axes now!
Looks fun, been thinking of something similar and also excited that there are viable if not meta options for throwing axes now!
OG DM
Well-known member
That option does exist. The Forge Apprentice enhancement makes the weapons on the list "simple" weapons, which means all of the alchemist enhancements that apply to simple weapons now interact with them. This includes throwing axes and throwing hammers.
It doesn't bring ax/hammer throwers to the top of the list, but I'm finding them a heck of alot more viable than I thought they would be.
As for leveling, I don't see that being easier than it used to be.
Gruben
Darkest Apostate
did some thrower builds with alchemist 16alch/1rog/3brd fun int based with str splash for brutal throw worked well, did 12bard/6alch/2fvs was interesting Cha based thrower lots of buffs str splash for brutal throw cool debuffs to be had with alchemist axe thrower is fun. its behind the already named/covered/options for leveling being terrible leveled with axe thrower from level 13 on and decided i would just do inquis until level cap. devs still need to fix the +1W from the alchemist vile chemist T5 even with that ~20% dps increase that would be from the bug fix would still be behind far easier/stronger inquis builds ive run before
I’m glad people are finding this useful with the new duergar race.
I actually have a build that I will do another write up on that leverages the simple throwing axe enhancements of duergar to get multitude of missiles for more spike damage as well as simple thrown weapon expertise for higher base damage via double shot.
The new build also swaps barbarian for dragon lord and across the board seems to be an even better build than my initial. So stay tuned!
I actually have a build that I will do another write up on that leverages the simple throwing axe enhancements of duergar to get multitude of missiles for more spike damage as well as simple thrown weapon expertise for higher base damage via double shot.
The new build also swaps barbarian for dragon lord and across the board seems to be an even better build than my initial. So stay tuned!
an Updated (and significantly superior) version for Duergar!