Equating Combat Stats: AKA: Why exactly doesn't caster scale as strongly as Physical builds?

[Fhrek]

made 4 years ago :

Is this a joke?

 

[Smokewolf]

The meta used to be Nukers > Ranged > Melee ....

Sorcs could pretty much solo steamroll through content, no need for melees except the occasional chewtoy tank for a high hp redname. Encounters were pretty much blast > pew pew > blast > pew pew > swing through empty air, because all mobs would be clear before any melees could engage with anything..

An old 2024 R10 solo Sorc video (and this was AFTER it got nerfed) :

A tier list that strimtom made 4 years ago :

src: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF3Cn9HVDLk

--
Metas change, it's no big deal... Ranged still have higher single burst dps than melees. And there are still many DC and Nuke R10 solo viable builds, so play what you find enjoyable because the "Keeping up with the Joneses" game will only lead you to frustration.

Here's a recent (sept 2025) R10 solo DC casting and negative nuking wizard build for you (with no need for melees) :

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/r10-solo-capable-dc-casting-and-negative-nuking-wizard-build-guide.22521/#post-308595

complete with R10 solo gameplay showing DC and nuking are still R10 viable :

The OP states :
"With this write-up, I want to show that a DC caster, despite their high barrier to entry, can be both accessible to those without heaps of past lives and unattainably rare equipment, and viable for r10 soloing. I do not have any reaper gear, use no Myth Drannor equipment, and I have no beneficial curses."

Cheers

What this post fails to acknowledge is that the barrier for entry for casters (especially DC) is much, much higher. Sure for a knowledgeable player, R10 is 100% possible with Feywild gear. That being said, Physical DPS don't have this barrier as their roles are much more simplified / streamlined, while having none of the constraints that casters have... Extreme feat / gear Tetris, mana limitations, mob DC bloat, and immunities on trash-mobs. All the while, running content NOT hampered by R7 nerfs that only apply to casters, for no other reason than the Dev's don't understand the game... Unless it's a melee, then they've no issues managing it properly.

If you don't believe this... Just look at what the community manager / lead Dev play when they post videos. Unless they're Demo'ing a something new, they're almost always playing a Barb or Pally.

 

[Anuulified]

Casters need to be re balanced around single versus aoe. The rest of this is good info but it doesn’t matter. You can’t make meteor swarm do the same dps to a single target as single target melee dps. Because obviously.

The other things, r7 nerf and mcls should be revisited at the same time.

But also just remove the r7 nerf, or apply it to everyone.

Or provide 2 versions of key spells like meteor swarm. An normal and single target variant.

 

[John3000]

Is this a joke?

Is it a joke? Hmmm… I suppose it’s a tragicomic one — its heart lying in the incongruous humor born from juxtaposing today’s laments with those before the great nuker witch hunts, the same futile cycle of nerf calls forever turning the wheel of churn and decay.

The OP wonders why Nukers aren’t at the top of the burst DPS food chain. I’m just pointing out that they once were — and that nerfs simply replace one outlier by another, feeding the same endless cycle.

Cheers

 

[John3000]

What this post fails to acknowledge is that the barrier for entry for casters (especially DC) is much, much higher. Sure for a knowledgeable player, R10 is 100% possible with Feywild gear. That being said, Physical DPS don't have this barrier as their roles are much more simplified / streamlined, while having none of the constraints that casters have... Extreme feat / gear Tetris, mana limitations, mob DC bloat, and immunities on trash-mobs. All the while, running content NOT hampered by R7 nerfs that only apply to casters, for no other reason than the Dev's don't understand the game... Unless it's a melee, then they've no issues managing it properly.

If you don't believe this... Just look at what the community manager / lead Dev play when they post videos. Unless they're Demo'ing a something new, they're almost always playing a Barb or Pally.

Sure, DC casting has always been gated behind a few past lives and reserved for more experienced players. The devs even acknowledge it at character creation, warning that its challenge rating is far tougher than playing a barbarian or paladin.


Personally, I think the game is brutal for new players, but that’s just how it is. Since DDO revolves around past lives, a first-life DC caster is basically that level 1 redbox D&D wizard with his 1d4 Magic Missile — equally punishing.


IMHO, past-life bonuses should be account-shared, like in Elder Scrolls Online, so rolling fresh characters — whether DC casters, melees, or anything else — isn’t such a slog.


Cheers

 

[OG DM]

Any "fix" for this issue that only exists in R7-10 should be applied only to R7-10. Entire playstyles in all game modes should not see any differences aside for that range of settings.

Any other lobbying for other buffs / nerfs outside of those parameters should be responded to by having a nice sensible chuckle over morning corn flakes and ignored thereafter.

 

[Jasparius]

Any "fix" for this issue that only exists in R7-10 should be applied only to R7-10. Entire playstyles in all game modes should not see any differences aside for that range of settings.

Any other lobbying for other buffs / nerfs outside of those parameters should be responded to by having a nice sensible chuckle over morning corn flakes and ignored thereafter.

And the 2 obvious fixes would be to remove the Caster nerf R7+ or introduce a melee and ranged nerf R7+.

Which surely takes a matter of minutes?

I do love this though:

Sure, DC casting has always been gated behind a few past lives and reserved for more experienced players.

A few???

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Or provide 2 versions of key spells like meteor swarm. A normal and single target variant.

This seems like a convoluted solution. Single target acid well ? It’s already weird we don’t have friendly fire.

There are ways to make dots and / or single target spells good. Just do that.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Agreed. It's not a competition here.

But, D&D has never been particularly well balanced except for the abomination that was 4E. And it was terrible, with no actual classes or flavor beyond the superficial.

They say after a super divisive competitive rant where they say they dont trust people playing certain classes.

 

[Jasparius]

This seems like a convoluted solution. Single target acid well ? It’s already weird we don’t have friendly fire.

There are ways to make dots and / or single target spells good. Just do that.

You think its weird that we dont have friendly fire? Really?

The logical scenario is where friendly fire is a thing?

 

[GrizzlyOso]

You think its weird that we dont have friendly fire? Really?

The logical scenario is where friendly fire is a thing?

Goddamn. You can’t say anything on the internet and expect anyone to understand the point without picking some bit. while it’s ridiculous from a lore perspective your fireball doesn’t hurt friends, I’m not advocating for a gameplay change.

Just saying it’s absurd to have a single target acid well, meteor swarm, or whatever, fireball.

Don’t get all pedantic and pick apart things to miss the point through technicalities or side arguments.

 

[Brac]

I really dislike this "us VS. them" attitude. Some people love the melee playstyle, some ranged, some casters. And many like all and switch playstyles regularily.

Why not make all archetypes good and playable in all game modes, raids AND quests? (like it is in almost every other MMO btw...)

Don't force people towards classes/ playstyle because the others don't work.

They are all playable. OP just wants his play style to do the most damage and not have to worry about resources like spell points. That’s why this thread was started.

 

[Underflow]

They are all playable. OP just wants his play style to do the most damage and not have to worry about resources like spell points. That’s why this thread was started.

I do not care about 'most damage'. I only care that classes should feel like they are able to contribute. I personally hate playing Sorcerer, though I enjoy the playstyle of early-mid heroic Blightcaster, Imbue builds, and Throwers.

Yet it's bewildering to me just how much worse caster is at cap, even before stepping into the mythical fantasyland that everyone complains of, R10. I am a player that likes to try a different build every life. Overall, casters feel worse in every way past level 20 than any weapon user.

You may continue to strawman or use bad faith arguements, but my goal for this thread has always been pointing out why casters lack the ability to scale past level 24ish, nothing more.

I provided two suggestions as to how it could improve, neither of which really do anything early heroics.

Edit: Wait. where did the 'without caring about spellpoints' bit come from? None of my suggestions did anything about reducing the overall cost of spellpoints at first, that was other people's suggestions, which I accepted as a potential option. I was told straight up that my suggestions are stupid because they blow through spell points.

 

[Underflow]

Drop some buzzwords and act like I am wrong. Did AI help you write that response?

You want the power of casters increased and use an apple to oranges comparison as if any of it is relevant. Leaving out pieces that don’t serve your position. Spell craft is a skill, it scales with your base stats and increases your damage. Guess your problem is solved. No need for this entire thread. The fact is casters were so OP that the devs made changes to dethrone them. If you want to advocate for them in R7+ and raids, do that, they need help. But we should not go back to a state where they are the only thing to play at end game because they are so far ahead of everything else. They are fine in low reaper. If you are having difficulty with your caster in low reaper epic levels, it is your build or a skill issue, not something to change the game over.

Is +1 base damage equivalent to +1 spell power?

 

[Smokewolf]

Is +1 base damage equivalent to +1 spell power?

Not by a long shot, as they scale differently.

 

[Brac]

Is +1 base damage equivalent to +1 spell power?

So you do understand that casting and martial work very differently and cannot be compared to each other using things like a weapons crit profile compared to a spells. Huh.

 

[Smokewolf]

Drop some buzzwords and act like I am wrong. Did AI help you write that response?

You want the power of casters increased and use an apple to oranges comparison as if any of it is relevant. Leaving out pieces that don’t serve your position. Spell craft is a skill, it scales with your base stats and increases your damage. Guess your problem is solved. No need for this entire thread. The fact is casters were so OP that the devs made changes to dethrone them. If you want to advocate for them in R7+ and raids, do that, they need help. But we should not go back to a state where they are the only thing to play at end game because they are so far ahead of everything else. They are fine in low reaper. If you are having difficulty with your caster in low reaper epic levels, it is your build or a skill issue, not something to change the game over.

I firmly believe that the changes made to Casters were a knee-jerk reaction. Partly because SSG wanted a solution fast, and the Dev's didn't really understand the scope of the hole they dug for themselves when walking away from the Holy Trinity. Without which, there's little to no class interdependence to balance out one side against the other. Leading to a game where everyone should be able to solo everything, with every class. While no longer needing a solid group, a plan or good leadership skills. You know, all the things that made the PnP game great. Unfortunately the reality is far from that and those in charge haven't a clue how to fix it. If anything, Physical DPS will get Nerfed hard, which is unfortunate, but it's the only thing SSG understands.

Edit: It's not that Physical DPS are over performing but that casters are under performing. Despite this, it's far easier to take away than it is to give.

 

[Raedier]

I do not care about 'most damage'. I only care that classes should feel like they are able to contribute. I personally hate playing Sorcerer, though I enjoy the playstyle of early-mid heroic Blightcaster, Imbue builds, and Throwers.

Yet it's bewildering to me just how much worse caster is at cap, even before stepping into the mythical fantasyland that everyone complains of, R10. I am a player that likes to try a different build every life. Overall, casters feel worse in every way past level 20 than any weapon user.

You may continue to strawman or use bad faith arguements, but my goal for this thread has always been pointing out why casters lack the ability to scale past level 24ish, nothing more.

I provided two suggestions as to how it could improve, neither of which really do anything early heroics.

Edit: Wait. where did the 'without caring about spellpoints' bit come from? None of my suggestions did anything about reducing the overall cost of spellpoints at first, that was other people's suggestions, which I accepted as a potential option. I was told straight up that my suggestions are stupid because they blow through spell points.

The only casters that have terrible dps scaling past 24 are warlock/cleric/fvs.

All casters other then warlock/cleric/fvs are fine in late epics, it's the moment that they hit lvl 30 where legendary content becomes the norm where every caster falls off greatly.

Yes, caster DPS should be looked at, yes reaper scaling should be looked at, yes we need better action boosts for casters, yes MCL cap should be adjusted or removed.

No, we don't need more arbitrary rules or procs that just add more lagg to the game.

 

[Raedier]

I firmly believe that the changes made to Casters were a knee-jerk reaction. Partly because SSG wanted a solution fast, and the Dev's didn't really understand the scope of the hole they dug for themselves when walking away from the Holy Trinity. Without which, there's little to no class interdependence to balance out one side against the other. Leading to a game where everyone should be able to solo everything, with every class. While no longer needing a solid group, a plan or good leadership skills. You know, all the things that made the PnP game great. Unfortunately the reality is far from that and those in charge haven't a clue how to fix it. If anything, Physical DPS will get Nerfed hard, which is unfortunate, but it's the only thing SSG understands.

Edit: It's not that Physical DPS are over performing but that casters are under performing. Despite this, it's far easier to take away than it is to give.

Physical dps isn't overperforming?

Yea, let's just pretend the ranged builds bursting 7-8mil damage per minute don't exist.

 

[Lotoc]

Physical dps isn't overperforming?

Yea, let's just pretend the ranged builds bursting 7-8mil damage per minute don't exist.

ranged has pretty much been the highest single target dps since ravenloft (Shuriken throwers despite some nerfs), it's just up until the ranged aoe changes and changes to inquisitive making it scale to endgame ranged in general felt absolutely awful to level (except inquis which fell off) so slipped under the radar.
Now inquisitive is relevant at endgame people actually care about ranged being overtuned.