Every class should have a trance

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Why not both?

Shuddup you! (you might be right, again!)

 

[droid327]

Maybe the original intent was the problem to begin with. I think the way trances and imbues work are a net negative. Everyone has to fit both in every 'attack' build.

You have to remove both trances AND imbues and balance from there or considering how effective and powerful actually they are, move them to t5 or capstones.

I also think giving critical range/multiplier in early cores is very problematic because critical range/multiplier is likely the no1 DPS increase in every attack build and getting it at level 3 or 12 might not be the greatest idea.

I am not sure what is the correct way to fix this just throwing out ideas

That's just recreating the problem on the other side of the coin

If you give everyone the same tool, everyone ends up the same. If you take all the tools away, everyone ends up the same.

The trick is to give some people some tools, and other people other tools, so everyone can be as effective but in different ways.

They keep trying for this but rarely hitting the mark (or even the dartboard)

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

That's just recreating the problem on the other side of the coin

If you give everyone the same tool, everyone ends up the same. If you take all the tools away, everyone ends up the same.

The trick is to give some people some tools, and other people other tools, so everyone can be as effective but in different ways.

They keep trying for this but rarely hitting the mark (or even the dartboard)

Dartboard?!!?

More like the street of the house of the wall upon which the dartboard hangs...

 

[Shear-buckler]

That's just recreating the problem on the other side of the coin

If you give everyone the same tool, everyone ends up the same. If you take all the tools away, everyone ends up the same.

The trick is to give some people some tools, and other people other tools, so everyone can be as effective but in different ways.

They keep trying for this but rarely hitting the mark (or even the dartboard)

Imbues had so much potential for this before they made them into a generic DPS stat

 

[f1b041b3]

Did you deliberately take my comment you quoted out of context, or simply miss the immediately following qualification I'd stated?

Nope. Do you not understand my point, or do I need to add an emoji to the end to really drive it home?

As to making choices, you're wrong. The choice of trance is always there - you can often pick more than one. For example the choice between a Dex HW trance and a Wis HeM/DD one.

When the choice is between being gimp and not being gimp, it's not much of a choice.

The same can be said for many things, like improved critical feats and crit profile enhancements. That something is mandatory does not mean it does not add to the customization.

Customization implies choice, so no, they don't promote customization and build diversity. Where your examples differ is that they're at least easily incorporated into any build unlike trances which corral players towards this build or that class splash. And with many melee builds now having to redirect even more ap into purchasing the harper doublestrike active, this issue is only going to worsen. I'm sure many are already planning to just go monk since it already has it all, both the strike and a trance that operates off of its mainhand stat.

Now sure, you can just place a trance somewhere in the the enhancenent trees of each class, but with so many complaining about bloating damage it'd make more sense to just remove the few that exist. I'd argue that as far as potential martial nerfs go, it'd be the most equitable.

 

[Bjond]

When the choice is between being gimp and not being gimp, it's not much of a choice

I generally agree and would like to see trances removed simply because they're so important for DPS builds.

However, there are builds that end up with multiple DPS options but only enough AP for one. My hate tank, for instance, has enough AP to pick Trance or more imbue+sneak dice. The dice math out higher, assuming sneak attacking has been unlocked on the target (pretty much 100% true for raids).

I've run with the dice version on raids and I like it for the peace of one-less-button, but I still use Trance. Why? Incite does not work on imbues, just like negative threat does not and the point of DPS on this char is "more hate", not "more damage".

If it was all sneak dice and enough to be more than the Trance, I'd have picked dice. Threat mods work on sneak.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Nope. Do you not understand my point, or do I need to add an emoji to the end to really drive it home?

When the choice is between being gimp and not being gimp, it's not much of a choice.

Customization implies choice, so no, they don't promote customization and build diversity. Where your examples differ is that they're at least easily incorporated into any build unlike trances which corral players towards this build or that class splash. And with many melee builds now having to redirect even more ap into purchasing the harper doublestrike active, this issue is only going to worsen. I'm sure many are already planning to just go monk since it already has it all, both the strike and a trance that operates off of its mainhand stat.

Now sure, you can just place a trance somewhere in the the enhancenent trees of each class, but with so many complaining about bloating damage it'd make more sense to just remove the few that exist. I'd argue that as far as potential martial nerfs go, it'd be the most equitable.

Yeah you're gonna need more emojis to make sense. Or you could, just, y'know,stop selectively quoting out of context to try to make your point.

Coz yeah, them emojis are evil.

At least you've recognised there is a choice. Progress!

 

[Shear-buckler]

Customization implies choice, so no, they don't promote customization and build diversity. Where your examples differ is that they're at least easily incorporated into any build unlike trances which corral players towards this build or that class splash. And with many melee builds now having to redirect even more ap into purchasing the harper doublestrike active, this issue is only going to worsen. I'm sure many are already planning to just go monk since it already has it all, both the strike and a trance that operates off of its mainhand stat.

Which is why the first thing I say is that they should be made more available.

 

[Torm]

I really think that at this point every class should have a trance in one of their enhancement trees. We shouldn't have to multiclass or jump into some universal tree just to keep up.

Yes that's right except for casters which should get trances as a level 1 spell slot.

 

[Lotoc]

personally I believe if trances are to be in every class and not turned entirely passive (which would fix snapshotting) they should be integrated with the classes that use them and have thematic ties - not being an independent button to press but a passive trigger that comes from the gameplay the class is designed around.
Like warpriest and paladin trances should go back to needing turn charges, but you can apply your trance with any use of a turn (and give warpriest an active attack with Channel Divinity)
An Eldritch Knight's trance would activate on spellcast or eldritch strike.
A thief acrobat's trance would activate on tumble, an assassin rogue's would trigger on attacking from stealth (though assassin would need a way to restealth in combat for long encounters).

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Shuddup you! (you might be right, again!)

 

[Spook]

yeah i mean either or, and balance enemy ac/saves accordingly

Going off their track record the devs would remove trances from the game then 5 years later realise that noone can get enough tactics DC to matter.

 

[Spook]

Everything is driven by personal agendas. Nobody makes selfless requests.

Actually I do. I advocate for the newer player regularly when SSG makes a change that will barely affect me but will be miserable to newcomers (eg DR breaking).