Every time I get excited about the new expansion

[ZPR]

the sad thing is, the "whales" would still spend money on rerolls if all loot went back to sharn/ravenloft levels of drop rates with no "rare" gear. they would still reroll looking for mythic/reaper boosted versions.

they could even make LESS pieces of gear and just make what would have been the rare version, the regular version.

Is anyone truly putting the common named armors in their planned gearsets over the rare versions of armor from MD/Lamordia? they could have saved on dev/art time and not even made the common armors. this would even drop the number of pieces of gear per quest which is another common complaint.

the game was fine when the only piece of truly rare gear was a jibbers.

a chase item here or there is perfectly acceptable, like 1-2 per expansion pack but make it a swap in item like spell absorb, or other clickies that have useful effects, not something that makes or breaks a build that someone with no desire to make their own gearset is trying to follow

a nice long true seeing clicky, fom clicky, stuff like that should be what the rare items are.

the items that have effects like these are STILL USED TO THIS DAY at endgame even after 10-15 years in some cases like the oldest spell absorb items and weapons with funky crit profiles and whatnot.

do you think people are going to even give the Autumn Equinox the time of day when a decent artifact with 6 slots comes out? NOPE.

the problem is, the whales have in fact shown that they will pay to farm the rare items and SSG has made a killing off of that. so, expect no change until the money stops flowing.

 

[The Narc2]

Mobile games .15% headcount fund 50% of the game on average.
PC MMOs 2.9% headcount fund 50% of the game on average.

I think DDO is not far off from these averages and that why I believe the monetization is right where it needs to be, the game can easily
be played without ther rares but the too competitors are on a ”need” basis to compete, except Dom of course he can compete with basic gear as top dog.

 

[dur]

Well, carry on as my question about 'what makes one a whale' [probably, maybe, in other thread] was deleted.
Y'all just wait til I'm retired..

 

[OG DM]

I think DDO is not far off from these averages and that why I believe the monetization is right where it needs to be, the game can easily
be played without ther rares but the too competitors are on a ”need” basis to compete, except Dom of course he can compete with basic gear as top dog.

It doesn't make sense to penalize 90+% of players on loot drop rates so <10% will pay out the wazoo to get those, when they could just sell that same loot for DDO points and then keep the drop rates the same for everyone. Some bean counter could do the math on average rerolls per rare then multiply that by the shards (usually 15 now days) then figure out the #points it takes to buy that many shards, then the big spenders can just buy that baby straight cash and the rest of us can play the actual game without dealing with drop rates lower than Jibbers for items that will be obsolete in another year.

TL;DR? p2w that starts by penalizing non p2w players offsets its own profit by driving some of those people away. Sure they're not the big spenders being targeted here, but they are regular spenders, who buy expansions each year etc.

-or do it like OSRS did and have a server for the f2p non p2w crowd - with a completely different META.

 

[Teh_Troll]

It doesn't make sense to penalize 90+% of players on loot drop rates so <10% will pay out the wazoo to get those, when they could just sell that same loot for DDO points and then keep the drop rates the same for everyone.

It doesn't if your a reasonable human being and not a misanthropic loser. Some mammals are just haters.

 

[Bjond]

the game can easily be played without ther rares

The rares are not and never were a problem. It's the bloated tables. People don't build sets with MD and Lam because basic farming (even with astrals) no longer works. So, we use Vecna and older with MD+Lam raid drops (runes ftw!) and maybe 1~2 regular newer.

The other problem with current monetization is that it's bad for whales. You can't spend money to reduce time. You now need multiple ransacks with astrals for basic gear. That's not pay-to-win. That's paying to waste my time.

IMHO, they need to do make rerolls whale-friendly again. Change it to outright buy an item from the chest or at least make an astral reroll = name drop.

 

[Syrrah]

Perhaps the way I play for fun is different than how you play for fun. Ever consider that?

How do you play for fun besides attacking people on the forums?

As I said repeatedly, I get a lot of enjoyment from gear tetris and maximizing output. Why is that an invalid way to have fun? For the better part of the history of this game (literally all of it until two years ago), this was a reinforced way to have fun in the game.

So please tell me how you have fun playing this game, maybe I can learn something.

But when you do that, then think to yourself how you’d feel if that way you have fun playing the game is suddenly monetized and shoved behind RNG and no longer possible. And what would you do if that happened?

But I’m glad YOUR way of playing the game still works for you. I am disappointed that you feel it so necessary to crap on any other way to have fun though. So thanks for being the problem

The irony is that you've just proved his point.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

IF you decide to go whaling, you have to give whales a way to achieve results by throwing money at the situation. That's the problem with the current astral reroll issue. I used to astral as a matter of course because it gave results; ie. it cut my farming time by 50% or more. I loved astrals.

From a money standpoint a whale is spending $2K+ per month. I'm not even a dolphin. But, astrals have become pointless because they no longer prevent ransack. They broke the "result" part of the whaling equation. Now, I don't astral at all because it does not give results.

---

Nice video by Josh Hayes on Whaling for those that want a reference (16m).

Aye that's an interesting vid.

Pareto is a really interesting tool. I've used it in business before.

One way to put it in approximate terms is that:

2 in 1000 of customers generate 41% of the total revenue for those 1000 customers.

The next 8 in 1000 generate another 10%

The next 30 generate 13%

The next 160 generate 16%

And the other 800 generate 20%

So where are you going to focus most on keeping folks happy?

 

[The Narc2]

Aye that's an interesting vid.

Pareto is a really interesting tool. I've used it in business before.

One way to put it in approximate terms is that:

2 in 1000 of customers generate 41% of the total revenue for those 1000 customers.

The next 8 in 1000 generate another 10%

The next 30 generate 13%

The next 160 generate 16%

And the other 800 generate 20%

So where are you going to focus most on keeping folks happy?

Its not about happy, its about feeding their needs and uncontrollable desires to generate their spending.

Why is it that the same people keep struggling with the same concept over and over? Desire and compulsion are huge factors in big spending and they alone are the driving factor, if the items were just purchasable then the competition wouldnt be there, the competition is the catalyst of the need and the desire. Its a circular function like the snake eating its tail, every single successful net profit business is based of the supply and demand.


Now if they dod want to offer purchasable super rare gear, here is my suggestion to SSG offer a singular super rare item once a month and have an open bidding system where the whales and must haves bid against each other. Of course i do believe there should be an identifier on any player carrying one of these super items so other players can choose whether to join or not join super gods groups.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

The irony is that you've just proved his point.

He has no point other than he likes a game mode that he could literally play with no change to the game.

 

[Bjond]

So where are you going to focus most on keeping folks happy?

This is where DDO is getting things wrong. Whaling for revenue is fine, but without the rest of the populace happy and having fun, it's a pretty unhappy place for the whale.

The pinacle of DDO from my experience was the release of Sharn. Everyone was incredibly jazzed about playing when that released. TONS of people came back to the game and everyone was having a lot of fun.

Spending to be more a part of THAT is what makes for a happy whale.

Its not about happy, its about feeding their needs and uncontrollable desires to generate their spending.

I think you're projecting a lot of weird stuff into the equation there. Whales aren't breaking piggy banks and getting a 3rd mortgage to support an addiction.

It's literally disposable -- more than you can spend. Trading something worthless (to you) for something valuable (to you) is the epitome of a good deal.

At present the game is extremely unhappy and spending is defensive. Not of any "investment" of past cash, but of past fun they hope to have again. The problem SSG needs to solve is "why would anyone want extra time with unhappy gamers?"

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Is it really so unhappy a place though?

There is naturally a lot of anchoring on here.

Much of that apparent misery though can be avoided entirely by simply not engaging on the forums. And many people do just that.

I play several times a week, and with a large variety of people. In the main nice, helpful, positive folks who enjoy the game and have a good laugh. There are also, of course, a few who aren't.

Whilst many of the topics on here are valid enough, I don't see much of the underlying negativity reflected in game. It may be that us forumites are a self selecting bunch of misanthropes.

There are some here who professs to not even play anymore after all.

I think we may be over egging matters to claim that as many players are as hacked off as is reflected in here. I certainly don't see it in-game.

Even the very mention of the forums probably arises in low single digit percentages of interactions in game.

I don't think that many players are affected by or even care about the sentiments expressed here as we might choose/like to believe, and those that do are probably posting on here anyway.

The rest possibly/probably just get on with enjoying the game. Even the few whales.

 

[Teh_Troll]

This is where DDO is getting things wrong. Whaling for revenue is fine, but without the rest of the populace happy and having fun, it's a pretty unhappy place for the whale.

The pinacle of DDO from my experience was the release of Sharn. Everyone was incredibly jazzed about playing when that released. TONS of people came back to the game and everyone was having a lot of fun.

Spending to be more a part of THAT is what makes for a happy whale.

I think you're projecting a lot of weird stuff into the equation there. Whales aren't breaking piggy banks and getting a 3rd mortgage to support an addiction.

It's literally disposable -- more than you can spend. Trading something worthless (to you) for something valuable (to you) is the epitome of a good deal.

At present the game is extremely unhappy and spending is defensive. Not of any "investment" of past cash, but of past fun they hope to have again. The problem SSG needs to solve is "why would anyone want extra time with unhappy gamers?"

Wait . . . there are people stupid enough to think others go into debt to support their DDO "whaling?" I have most the the dumb people on ignore so forgive me if I've missed an obvious post.

Are they that poor that a $200 pack of points matter to them?

They need to get their priorities straight and take advice from this great philosopher . . .

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Why cant she just wear the good gear like all the other strippers?

 

[Rusty_helmet]

Wait . . . there are people stupid enough to think others go into debt to support their DDO "whaling?" I have most the the dumb people on ignore so forgive me if I've missed an obvious post.

Are they that poor that a $200 pack of points matter to them?

They need to get their priorities straight and take advice from this great philosopher . . .

I meed to get you that shirt in that size and have you wear it. Crom wills it!

 

[The Narc2]

This is where DDO is getting things wrong. Whaling for revenue is fine, but without the rest of the populace happy and having fun, it's a pretty unhappy place for the whale.

The pinacle of DDO from my experience was the release of Sharn. Everyone was incredibly jazzed about playing when that released. TONS of people came back to the game and everyone was having a lot of fun.

Spending to be more a part of THAT is what makes for a happy whale.

I think you're projecting a lot of weird stuff into the equation there. Whales aren't breaking piggy banks and getting a 3rd mortgage to support an addiction.

It's literally disposable -- more than you can spend. Trading something worthless (to you) for something valuable (to you) is the epitome of a good deal.

At present the game is extremely unhappy and spending is defensive. Not of any "investment" of past cash, but of past fun they hope to have again. The problem SSG needs to solve is "why would anyone want extra time with unhappy gamers?"

Yes and SSG wants as much of that disposable income as they can possibly get, the desire to have is the driving factor to that, Doubt anyone is going broke playing the game and if they are that is certainly a shame for them. Not sure who suggested people are taking out mortgages and such but that is just silly so I have to agree with Teh troll‘s post on the ridiculousness of that concept.

i am not projecting because i am unattached, but it seems you are projecting when you start talking about unhappy gamers, everyone in my main guild are happy gamers and i myself an not unhappy in the least, quite contrary.

 

[woq]

Is it really so unhappy a place though?

There is naturally a lot of anchoring on here.

Much of that apparent misery though can be avoided entirely by simply not engaging on the forums. And many people do just that.

I play several times a week, and with a large variety of people. In the main nice, helpful, positive folks who enjoy the game and have a good laugh. There are also, of course, a few who aren't.

Whilst many of the topics on here are valid enough, I don't see much of the underlying negativity reflected in game. It may be that is forumites are a self selecting bunch of misanthropes.

There are spen who professs to not even play anymore after all.

I think we may be over egging matters to claim that as many players are as hacked off as is reflected in here. I certainly don't see it in-game.

Even the vert mention of the forums probably arises in low single digit percentages of interactions in game.

I don't think that many players are affected by or even care about the sentiments expressed here as we might choose/like to believe, and those that do are probably posting on here anyway.

The rest possibly/probably just get on with enjoying the game. Even the few whales.

Quite a few of my friends have quit the game. The people most unhappy about the current situation aren't whining in game not because they're happily enjoying it while the angry forumites are angry, they're not complaining because they're gone.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Quite a few of my friends have quit the game. The people most unhappy about the current situation aren't whining in game not because they're happily enjoying it while the angry forumites are angry, they're not complaining because they're gone.

Well if they're gone they're gone and de facto no longer part of the consideration.

Pretty obvious, but the game shouldn't be designed for those who don't even play it.

I get that's a bit harsh, but it kinda supports my point that those still playing seem a pretty happy bunch in pretty marked contrast to on here.

EDIT

That said, I should probably temper my point somewhat by recognising that it's quite natural that folks will be a bit negative on here. It's far more in our nature to speak up when we're not happy about something (it's too hot or too cold in here!) than whether are (thanks, the temperature in here is perfect!), so I don't think forumites are in any way "bad" people ( with the usual few exceptions!). Just that we tend to amplify the negatives more than people care about in game.

 

[woq]

Well if they're gone they're gone and de facto no longer part of the consideration.

Pretty obvious, but the game shouldn't be designed for those who don't even play it.

I get that's a bit harsh, but it kinda supports my point that those still playing seem a pretty happy bunch in pretty marked contrast to on here.

EDIT

That said, I should probably temper my point somewhat by recognising that it's quite natural that folks will be a bit negative on here. It's far more in our nature to speak up when we're not happy about something (it's too hot or too cold in here!) than whether are (thanks, the temperature in here is perfect!), so I don't think forumites are in any way "bad" people ( with the usual few exceptions!). Just that we tend to amplify the negatives more than people care about in game.

I was merely trying to bring you the idea of survivorship bias.

Either way, carry on.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Thinking about whale catching and encouraging their spend, and overhaul of the QOL around reincarnation could be a major source of additional whale income...

Make the whole bank cache transfer process much easier - maybe pay for a permanent cache you don't need to empty every TR. Or some other solution to that tedium.

Make Ortto's Boxes, when used wit a 50% pot, grant sufficient xp to get you a full PL.

Introduce a Reaper Otto's that grants you 20 reaper points and is stackable.

Make all of these expensive to buy.

If I'm a whale*, I don't mind, in fact I enjoy spending my money to gain advantage. If I can spend a lot of money to build out a filled out alt toon from scratch pretty quickly, then sign me up for that!

(*I'm not, but I do buy boxes pretty regularly to TR my main)

Also as a general point, I'm less concerned about player number attrition - that happens in all games - than getting new blood in. The starter guides and build paths need completely redone, and I'd suggest that be based on input from some of the great builders on here.

And after that, they can push marketing to get more folks in - who knows, even a whale or two?