Experiencing Difficulty Bump

Speed

Well-known member
For the divine classes, they are likely to feel somewhat weak offensively, Druid is probably the exception to this.

Favored soul with charisma/wisdom to attack and damage, big pool of sp (plus temp sp per spell critical what happens often with aoe), spells with light damage that very few enemies resist (some in spellcasting tree to use with metamagic for free), some cc, good heals, many buffs, full saves - is weak?
Pure druid has no access to wisdom for attack and damage (except flame blade that often fails due to fire damage that many enemies resist or even have immunity), less sp (on level 3 can get temp sp in animal form per critical hit from Essence Of The Shrike, wolf companion attacks also count), slightly weaker heals, 7x SLA (require multiple spell powers and maxed lower SLA even if not used, 2x aoe).
Pure cleric seems weaker than favored soul (less sp, no temp sp, no access to wisdom for attack and damage, less deity bonuses), but has access to nice domains with 3x SLA (for total 4x single and 2x aoe to use with metamagic for free) and various bonuses.
Stormsinger has limited pool of sp (later on level 12 can regenerate with Spell Song Vigor, but it requires T5 in spellsinger instead of stormsinger), good cc, many buffs, weaker heals, 6x SLA (2x aoe) and sadly no Swashbuckling tree (on level 3, +1 critical threat and multiplier with light/thrown weapons and charisma for damage).
 

DarthBUNBUN

Active member
Favored soul with charisma/wisdom to attack and damage, big pool of sp (plus temp sp per spell critical what happens often with aoe), spells with light damage that very few enemies resist (some in spellcasting tree to use with metamagic for free), some cc, good heals, many buffs, full saves - is weak?
Yes, as in compared to a caster blaster like sorc/stormsinger/caster druid. Fvs has some nice spells, don't get me wrong, but they have breakpoints of casting offensive capability, rather than consistent scaling from lvls 1-20 and into epics. Giving divine's their due, divines have nice survivability, and a lot of buffs that a new player is likely to find useful, like death ward. Didn't mention alch because frankly, they are complicated, Multivial also has some really odd scaling going into epics, and flask healing has some unique targeting. On any first life caster outside of warlock your likely to run into SP issues unless your heavily reliant on meta'ed SLAs, and stormsinger has those in spades.
 

Speed

Well-known member
Yes, as in compared to a caster blaster like sorc/stormsinger/caster druid. Fvs has some nice spells, don't get me wrong, but they have breakpoints of casting offensive capability, rather than consistent scaling from lvls 1-20 and into epics. Giving divine's their due, divines have nice survivability, and a lot of buffs that a new player is likely to find useful, like death ward. Didn't mention alch because frankly, they are complicated, Multivial also has some really odd scaling going into epics, and flask healing has some unique targeting. On any first life caster outside of warlock your likely to run into SP issues unless your heavily reliant on meta'ed SLAs, and stormsinger has those in spades.

On previous character I had first life charisma based dragonborn favored soul for R1 that was focused on spell casting (I am not new, I am just not chasing TR and like playing with first lifers from scratch, including no ship buffs or tomes).
At lowest levels I used my favored weapon to save some sp and wait for cooldowns, but wizard, druid or stormsinger have less in their pool (not to mention that they do not have attack and damage with weapons for free, flame blade is not usable on many enemies if you are not able to bypass fire).
Since mid levels (around 10+?), I mainly used damage spells as my playstyle while weapon only for some nearly dead or easy weakest single targets and later Ameliorating Strike just for free heals.
Spell casting tree increases spell power by +1 universal (+2 sp) per ap for total 1-80, +20 capstone (6th core, level 20), +20 light/alignment 5th core (level 18), so if you decide to put only 41 ap, then you end with 61 (41+20) universal and 81 light (+20).
DC is +2 all within 15 meter aura (3rd core, level 6) +1 all (5th core, level 18) +2 all (6th core, level 20) +1 evocation (T5, level 12).
Caster level (T4) and max caster level (T5) are +3.
Temporary sp (T2, Just Reward) is 10 per each critical hit with spells that happen often enough with aoe.
I always take maximize and empower (sometimes heighten, depending on class and what SLA are available), so free maximize (+150) and empower (+75, total +225) for SLA plus tree and items (including insight if possible) and implement (Just Reward, minimum level of favored weapon).
I rotate spells between cooldowns (as we know, SLA have longer), so I always have something useful to cast.
On level 1 I have Nimbus Of Light SLA (T1) - light (there are only few enemies that have immunity/resistance/healing, golems absorb all elements), dice is just 1d6 per level, but there is no save (and obviously no sr), range is double, max caster level 15, only 2 sp, 4 sec.
On level 3 I have Sun Bolt SLA (T3) - again light (I do not need additional spell power item or secondary element for immune enemies), dice is 1d6+3 with evocation reflex save 13+, range is double, max caster level 15, this is line aoe and I able to hit few enemies (some players may need to practice with proper targeting), additionally, this spell has 50% chance for crazy double damage just like Lightning Bolt (not sure if intended, but it works), 8 sp, 6 sec.
On level 12 I have Cometfall SLA (T3) - 1d6+3 bludgeon aoe, 2-8 sec trip aoe (no sr), 2x conjuration reflex save 16+, max caster level 20, 25 sp, 12 sec.
On level 20 I have Searing Light (6th core) - no sp cost, again light, 1d6+6, double damage to undead, no save, double range, max level 10 (but hits harder than Nimbus Of Light), 3 sec.
Cleric can get more SLA with proper domains (+3, including 1 aoe, they use light if are different spell power).
Aoe spells worth to consider (there are various single if someone wants more) to use between SLA (including non damaging, but still useful): Soundburst (evocation stun, sr), Prayer (like extra 1-5 dc plus buffs around self, no save, no sr), Holy Smite (evocation blind, no sr, most enemies are evil), Flame Strike (evocation, nice one for only 20 sp), Greater Command (enchantment trip with possibly long 6+ sec, sr), Blade Barrier (evocation, stays on terrain, hits every in and out), Cometfall (already as SLA, might be secondary when waiting with cooldown), Symbol Of Stunning (enchantment trap, might be useful in some situations), Fire Storm (evocation), Celestial Bombardment (evocation trip, 3x save, massive damage), Divine Wrath (evocation, light plus heal combo), Implosion (evocation instant death, sr).
You can be backed by Death Pact spell, just in case.
I also used Dragon Breath SLA (fire to match with spell power for other spells), but this is just bonus in specific case.
I am currently playing another first life wisdom based druid that focuses on spell casting and I can not say that I have better "blaster", because there is not enough sp for this (except temp sp that actually require weapon crits in wolf form or thankfully wolf companion crits if you are in spell casting elemental form) and no gear room for SLA with too many different spell powers (fire, cold, electric, force, light aoe, possibly acid, plus positive for heals).
You probably had blight druid in mind (just force/acid/poison, plus extra SLA with other elements), but I would still doubt if proper favored soul (and even cleric with proper domain) is noticeably weaker (thanks to larger sp pool, enough spells to rotate, reliable light damage, secondary fire for more options).
I would say that none of full spell casters are easy for new players (you need knowledge and fast reaction to play properly due to low defenses in general, so sorcerer can die quickly while divine can at least heal if needed), but very effective for experienced.
 

Elminster

Well-known member
One word:
8f5ks6.gif
 
  • Haha
Reactions: dur

DarthBUNBUN

Active member
You like fvs, I get it mate. The guy mentioned sorc, so I was presenting things of similar style to that. The stormsinger I leveled from 1-32 was able to cruise through heroics mostly 1-shotting on R1 with SLAs, didn't even take much in the way of gear to do that. The first couple of levels were a bit rough, by level 12 with horn of thunder even R2/R3 was not that much of an issue.
 

Speed

Well-known member
You like fvs, I get it mate. The guy mentioned sorc, so I was presenting things of similar style to that. The stormsinger I leveled from 1-32 was able to cruise through heroics mostly 1-shotting on R1 with SLAs, didn't even take much in the way of gear to do that. The first couple of levels were a bit rough, by level 12 with horn of thunder even R2/R3 was not that much of an issue.

I actually like all casters (not a fan of weapon swings or shots, well, except crafted returning throwing daggers) and just wanted to add that favored soul can also do well at focus on spell damage as main playstyle with first life on R1 or even cleric with elemental domain.
Each have their strengths and weaknesses, but this is good that there are some differences.
This is how it is with them, you have harder time at start with few simple spells to later end up with many powerful options (cooldowns are no longer a problem, you can better manage your sp pool, you can hit multiple enemies with aoe, you can solve situations in various ways).
On other hand, if someone does not have enough knowledge or experience, then might have harder time with each later level (and we are getting posts that class X sucks and should be buffed - to be clear, it is not about you or others in this post).
 
Last edited:

Br4d

Well-known member
Heroics become difficult solo on R1 along about level 16 assuming you are going at level or -1 on level - which is where the challenge really ramps up. So a level 16 quest on R1 (difficulty level 18) will have good chances to kill you if you're not careful.

One thing to realize is that not all content is created equally. Two quests can be the same level and one much more difficult than the other due to being a later arrival and attuned to the power creep. So old favorites like Demon Sands and Gianthold will be rollable by a decent character but newer content like Sharn will present higher difficulty levels.

As a relatively ungeared player you're going to have to dance a lot as a melee to stay up consistently. Your DPS will require you to survive maybe twice as long as a caster. As a caster you're just going to have to spec into things that raise your DC's, cast AoE's and strong single target spells and kite to stay up consistently. I do not recommend ranged except for Inquisitive which is emblematic of the power creep DDO has experienced over the last 5 years.

I do not recommend R1 in epics for newer players. It can be done but until your hp begin to outclass the monster damage it will be very random with both champs and reapers laying you low now and then and again very unpredictably.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
Heroics become difficult solo on R1 along about level 16 assuming you are going at level or -1 on level - which is where the challenge really ramps up. So a level 16 quest on R1 (difficulty level 18) will have good chances to kill you if you're not careful.

One thing to realize is that not all content is created equally. Two quests can be the same level and one much more difficult than the other due to being a later arrival and attuned to the power creep. So old favorites like Demon Sands and Gianthold will be rollable by a decent character but newer content like Sharn will present higher difficulty levels.

As a relatively ungeared player you're going to have to dance a lot as a melee to stay up consistently. Your DPS will require you to survive maybe twice as long as a caster. As a caster you're just going to have to spec into things that raise your DC's, cast AoE's and strong single target spells and kite to stay up consistently. I do not recommend ranged except for Inquisitive which is emblematic of the power creep DDO has experienced over the last 5 years.

I do not recommend R1 in epics for newer players. It can be done but until your hp begin to outclass the monster damage it will be very random with both champs and reapers laying you low now and then and again very unpredictably.
^^this

Any accurate depiction for any average player or less than average player.
 

Col Kurtz

Well-known member
I ended up doing this and switching to enlightened spirit and now I'm blasting through legendary content and almost to 30. Trying to bang out enough seeds for two hearts and double incarnate back to 20 then back to 1 and do a sorcerer playthrough and try to do reaper as I'm leveling for some points on the way. Even now certain quests just kinda neuter my character in specific being immune or straight up healing from fire damage. Have to turn off my mantle and pact to slowly poke something down is extremely lame

I feel like that little point around 16 when you don't quite have a real setup yet for enhancements or gear was pretty painful compared to what it feels like now with epic destinies. The big power increase, tankiness, access to healing and temp health etc since quests around that point tend to be long, full of traps, and the mobs are particularly annoying
when you get back to heroic, if you're doing caster> pop a summon creature on tougher battles. They dont really help in epic/legendary (maybe a little t lvl 20-24).... but, in heroic the mobs will all focus on the summon and allow you to nuke mobs wholesale while taking little damage. A really great one is the air elemental from crystal cove event(cr14...you can summon it at lvl4)... I always keep a few stacks of 100 of those in my bank/guild chest.

but yea, any summon will work.>same w hires especially if you have raise dead scrolls . Summon a hire and let him be your meat shield. It's cruel but they dont complain much;)
 

The Narc

Well-known member
when you get back to heroic, if you're doing caster> pop a summon creature on tougher battles. They dont really help in epic/legendary (maybe a little t lvl 20-24).... but, in heroic the mobs will all focus on the summon and allow you to nuke mobs wholesale while taking little damage. A really great one is the air elemental from crystal cove event(cr14...you can summon it at lvl4)... I always keep a few stacks of 100 of those in my bank/guild chest.

but yea, any summon will work.>same w hires especially if you have raise dead scrolls . Summon a hire and let him be your meat shield. It's cruel but they dont complain much;)
This will help average players for sure, good advice.

Average players should strive to be better as to move much faster than using these tactics as they are slow and burdensome, although still good advice for some of the tougher spots in a quest.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
This will help average players for sure, good advice.

Average players should strive to be better as to move much faster than using these tactics as they are slow and burdensome, although still good advice for some of the tougher spots in a quest.

I know this sounds strange but for me DDO has become the rare game where having more power is not good. That's primarily because the power creep paradigm forces the overall meta into an increasing skulls meta, which in turn causes more power creep in a never-ending self-reinforcing cycle.

If this was accompanied by a great story that kept increasing as everything else increased it might be supportable but as is it's just a never-ending cycle-jerk that wears thin with repetition. Some players will enjoy the endless grind but I think a lot of us are worn out by it over time.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
I know this sounds strange but for me DDO has become the rare game where having more power is not good. That's primarily because the power creep paradigm forces the overall meta into an increasing skulls meta, which in turn causes more power creep in a never-ending self-reinforcing cycle.

If this was accompanied by a great story that kept increasing as everything else increased it might be supportable but as is it's just a never-ending cycle-jerk that wears thin with repetition. Some players will enjoy the endless grind but I think a lot of us are worn out by it over time.
You sound like you would be a good teammate, i would enjoy teaming up with you in mortal voyage permadeath guild, look me up sometime on argo, all my toons have narc in theri name.
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
Heroics become difficult solo on R1 along about level 16 assuming you are going at level or -1 on level - which is where the challenge really ramps up. So a level 16 quest on R1 (difficulty level 18) will have good chances to kill you if you're not careful.

One thing to realize is that not all content is created equally. Two quests can be the same level and one much more difficult than the other due to being a later arrival and attuned to the power creep. So old favorites like Demon Sands and Gianthold will be rollable by a decent character but newer content like Sharn will present higher difficulty levels.

As a relatively ungeared player you're going to have to dance a lot as a melee to stay up consistently. [/snip]
dancing (*strafing/moving) is never bad. Just gotta be able to hit or land the cast.

I know this sounds strange but for me DDO has become the rare game where having more power is not good. That's primarily because the power creep paradigm forces the overall meta into an increasing skulls meta, which in turn causes more power creep in a never-ending self-reinforcing cycle.
[/snip]
So moar is less, except for.. uh okay, so: tell SSG to QUIT INTRODUCING creep with their new items in their NEW adventure packs.
 

GrayJedi AntiProPaladin

Well-known member
well yes however tho power creep also happens in the real world, so some amount of it in Fantasy World realistically "mirrors" our world...and should be amenable...

(opted to copy paste it over instead of linking to other thread... )
Jan 5, 2024 #30

the thing with "power creep" is that some amount of will of course already happen, like the rats in later adventures are waaaaaaay buffer with hella more HP and hits harder than the rats in the Korthos village and island

so the monsters in the game have the "power creep" already (unless they lock all rats in all adventures whether intro or advanced levels to be around the same amount of HP and power/damage)

also if we think about it, "power creep" happens in the real world too...just a few generations ago the Internet doesn't even exist, now we have smartphones in our hand that have processing power of "super computers" just decades ago (so they say, altho the articles prolly use some kinda hyperboles about it)
and we have tanks and other war machines that are way more powerful than the catapults and siege machines of some generations ago

so some "power creep" is OK and "normal", maybe just not "that" much....altho, that said, technology has been advancing at faster and faster pace in the real world

Jan 5, 2024 #33

and just remembered another thing, the war machines have so much power these days such as Nuclear warheads, atomic bombs, hydrogen bombs, etc. that many Superpowers will "refrain" from using it (but will "threaten" to use) and they essentially implicitly agree with each other Not to use except in extreme conditions like self-defense of the country (so they say)

...this would essentially be an example of having powerful Spell or Ability and agreeing with each other Not to use it
(however this would be PvP vs PvE so not a "perfect example")
 
Last edited:

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
to SSG: I really think you should setup a softcore server that removes the reaper level entirely so ONLY gamers interested in non-reaper levels will be interested in playing.

I think this will do more than any amount of nerfing to bring more new gamers into DDO. And anytime I see a thread complaining about powercreep blah blah I will repeat this request
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
to SSG: I really think you should setup a softcore server that removes the reaper level entirely so ONLY gamers interested in non-reaper levels will be interested in playing.

I think this will do more than any amount of nerfing to bring more new gamers into DDO. And anytime I see a thread complaining about powercreep blah blah I will repeat this request
Uh... they just don't play reaper... how does reaper nerf anything in non-reaper?
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Uh... they just don't play reaper... how does reaper nerf anything in non-reaper?
Its about LFM. Almost all LFM is for reaper so new gamers are immediately disadvantaged. SSG needs to create a culture for non-powergamers to entice new gamers
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
The current situation is layer upon layer of complexities for new gamers: complex interfaces, neverending options, powergamers, reaper etc etc

The game has evolved into an egotrip for powergamers without any thought given to introducing new gamers to DDO
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
Yeah, still don't see the problem. Then again, I solo for way more reasons than that.
 
Top