Facing many enemies immune to Greater Color Spray. Options ?

[Elves United]

If you really want an Illusion CC that works on "everything", it's the Shiradi epic in T4. Sacrificing a strike for CC is a big deal, though. The only build I have that uses it is v.weird -- it's a PM Inquisitive from HC and thus is naturally in Shiradi already and doesn't mind sacrificing a strike because it has Hunt's End.

My casters tend toward no-save CC, like sleet and ice with LGS salt. There are more sources for caster salt these days: actual LGS or L33+ raid weapons and OH.

If you're running the classic gnome GCS + PK wizard, you can try using Mass Hold, too. That's Enchant DC v Will. Low-life characters will need Crushing Despair to soften 'em up before holding. Solo can lay down a sleet/ice/fog/disco puddle between you and pack to slow them a bit, then crush and hold. It's more effort without high DCs, but it does work.

My experience with Fey Lights is that the range and duration were just too short. Letting enemies get close enough to use it it just as often got me killed as it stopped them. ( Note: I used it when it first came out back when Shiradi was a good caster DPS tree. It may have been updated since then )

 

[Bjond]

Being a cloud, mobs have to save multiple times.

I used to think that, too, but then I noticed this note in the wiki: "A creature that successfully saves against the fog is not affected and need not make further saves even if it remains in the fog."

I've not tested it, though.

WHAT. Does Mind Fog no longer have the auto -6 to Will? When did that happen??

Unsure. Sometime between the time when I made my first DC caster and now, which is probably at least a 4y gap. I recall folk saying Mind Fog was great, had repeated save requirements, etc.. I used to drop it on discos to help catch/keep things dancing.

 

[Synalon]

Unsure. Sometime between the time when I made my first DC caster and now, which is probably at least a 4y gap. I recall folk saying Mind Fog was great, had repeated save requirements, etc.. I used to drop it on discos to help catch/keep things dancing.

Why did they even make the change. Like what is the rationale. DC casting is too easy??

 

[vik]

I used to think that, too, but then I noticed this note in the wiki: "A creature that successfully saves against the fog is not affected and need not make further saves even if it remains in the fog."

True but if enemies step out of the fog then back in they have to make another save.

I use it mainly for despair reapers and umber hulk champs with high saves, to keep them held longer. If you lead with crushing despair/hypno to lower their saves with the weaken/vulnerable will effect, then hold them, mind fog may be enough to keep them held even after the temporary will save reduction wears off. If you have good DPS then you probably kill them fast enough that you don't need to keep them held this long.

 

[Anurakh]

Why did they even make the change. Like what is the rationale. DC casting is too easy??

I don't know, just like the variable SR, the devs seem to think they have to make it difficult for DC casters.

I'm increasingly convinced there's something fishy about the DC as well. When I returned to wizard after the DD lives, I decided to try taking the necromancy specialization and stacking it with the spell focus necromancy feats, to see if it would improve the IKs on certain MD mods. It didn't. I still have the same problems with higher necromancy DCs, and my necromancy DC is now very high.

So, meh.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

SSG simply dont like casters, especially DC casters.

You can Inquis, DL roar or Barb terror with minimal effort but casters need a ton of past lives and gear - and even then half the mobs are immune.

And if you like high reaper their DPS is also neutered.

Loads of mob immunities apply to Visage though. Plus you need to be pure and capped, so it's not so easily applicable or accessible.

To be fair though, the DC on it isn't an issue for just the cc effect as that applies even on a mob save, so if we're talking purely about a narrow focus on DC, then, yeah.

 

[Synalon]

Thinking about Mind Fog, I could probably drop Web, since it's so massively neutered in reaper, and take Hypnotic Pattern instead. That gives a -3 to Will in its area. The problem of course is that it's such an eyesore...

 

[vik]

Hypnotic pattern's weaken will only applies only once: either when an enemy first runs into it or if you cast it around them. It doesn't remain as long as enemies stay within it. I don't have LGS salt, but does the slow work with hypnotic pattern? It lasts 30 sec in reaper so it might be useful for that purpose?

It's crazy that even with 5 spell slots per level I still don't have enough spells. Right now I'm trying to find a way to slot fear again so I can test out the dev changes to it.

 

[Synalon]

Hypnotic pattern's weaken will only applies only once: either when an enemy first runs into it or if you cast it around them. It doesn't remain as long as enemies stay within it. I don't have LGS salt, but does the slow work with hypnotic pattern? It lasts 30 sec in reaper so it might be useful for that purpose?

It's crazy that even with 5 spell slots per level I still don't have enough spells. Right now I'm trying to find a way to slot fear again so I can test out the dev changes to it.

Yeah, -3 Will for 8 seconds seems pretty good though. Plus it's a little extra cc? Can you test it out with LGS for me as I'm not at cap? And yes! Level 4 is so insanely stacked with good spells, especially for a Pale Master, I which there were enhancements or something to take more

 

[Anurakh]

Yeah, level 4 is a very crowded level for a pale master. Both heals and DD are mandatory (except for the few quests where DD doesn't work), and of course you also want PK... that leaves one slot, just one, to add something else, and there are plenty of useful candidates.

Comparatively, level 5 is more "desertified," lol.

Sometimes I wish I could prepare a low-level spell in a higher-level slot like in PNP. Normally this is a waste, but with level 4 spells... it would be useful.

 

[Anurakh]

Thinking about Mind Fog, I could probably drop Web, since it's so massively neutered in reaper, and take Hypnotic Pattern instead. That gives a -3 to Will in its area. The problem of course is that it's such an eyesore...

My problem with Web is that it goes away with Meteor Swarm and DFB. It's a shame Solid Fog is in the very crowded Level 4

Of level 2, I like Glitterdust. Great for eyeballs and such (Ik for them) and blindness is solid CC for other mobs. And it works with salt. Will save, too.