I've played quite a bit of 15/5 Pal Dragonlord using a Greatsword. I'm about to convert to a build where I wont have the extra threat range, but I'll be able to use falchions instead of greatswords. I'm assuming the weapon damage difference will be about the same since falchions have a larger threat range already? Is my reasoning sound or am I off?
Falchion +2 vs Greatsword +1/+2
- Thread starter dbik123
- Start date
SpartanKiller13
Why do I have 614 ddo build files
Greatsword with +1 range and +2 multi (presuming T5 DL + HSword) is 16-20/x4 (x5 with Patience), generally with +2 on 19-20 (Overwhelming & your ED T5).
If you just add up the expected multiplier of rolling each result from 1-20 and dividing by 20, you can quickly approximate an average crit multiplier (ignores confirming and fort bypass FWIW); I tend to factor a miss on a 1 as well.
So with 16-20/x4 (+2 on 19-20), here are your results
1: 0
2-15: 14
16-18: 3 x 4 = 12
19-20: 2 x 6 = 12
For an expected 38/20 = 1.9x crit multiplier.
This also makes it fast to change the math, like adding Patience just adds 5/20 = 0.25 = 2.15x crit multiplier.
Falchion with +2 multi (and no +range I presume) is a net of +1 range over the above.
So with 15-20/x4 (+2 on 19-20), here are your results
1: 0
2-14: 13
15-18: 4 x 4 = 16
19-20: 2 x 6 = 12
= 41/20 = 2.05x crit multiplier (you can also see it quickly as adding an extra 4x hit, which is a net gain of a 3x hit = +3/20 = 0.15).
With patience, similar to above but with a wider crit range you add one to each of your crits = 6/20 = 0.3, for a total of 2.35 crit multi.
Comparing these expected multipliers, 2.05/1.90 = 7.9% increase; with Patience, 2.35/2.15 = 9.3% increase.
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Base damage wise, 2d6 avg 7 vs 2d4 avg 5 means you drop 2 base damage per dice (higher level & raid weapons have the same + to both, 2d6+6 vs 2d4+6 is still a 2 difference). Assuming endgame with 6.5[w] you're looking at 13 damage lost by switching from GSword to Falchion. If you're going FB T5 instead it might be 9.5[w] or 19 damage lol.
So the question becomes, is +13 damage or 8-9% bigger crits more damage? Math for that is pretty straightforward, is your base + bonus damage higher than 139 (if Patience) or 165 (if not)? Given 6.5[w] x 2d4+6 = 71.5, with 70-100 bonus damage you come out ahead - and with 2.5 or 3x stat modifier (depending on trance) you can do pretty easily, even before enhancements, deadly, etc.
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TL;DR: assuming you have enough Fort Bypass, falchion's better crit profile will easily outweigh greatsword's higher base damage. In a vacuum I'd eyeball it in the realm of +5% DPS, but please be aware that's a very vague estimate. From an optimization standpoint Paladins only use greatswords b/c of favored weapons (which to be clear they should).
If you just add up the expected multiplier of rolling each result from 1-20 and dividing by 20, you can quickly approximate an average crit multiplier (ignores confirming and fort bypass FWIW); I tend to factor a miss on a 1 as well.
So with 16-20/x4 (+2 on 19-20), here are your results
1: 0
2-15: 14
16-18: 3 x 4 = 12
19-20: 2 x 6 = 12
For an expected 38/20 = 1.9x crit multiplier.
This also makes it fast to change the math, like adding Patience just adds 5/20 = 0.25 = 2.15x crit multiplier.
Falchion with +2 multi (and no +range I presume) is a net of +1 range over the above.
So with 15-20/x4 (+2 on 19-20), here are your results
1: 0
2-14: 13
15-18: 4 x 4 = 16
19-20: 2 x 6 = 12
= 41/20 = 2.05x crit multiplier (you can also see it quickly as adding an extra 4x hit, which is a net gain of a 3x hit = +3/20 = 0.15).
With patience, similar to above but with a wider crit range you add one to each of your crits = 6/20 = 0.3, for a total of 2.35 crit multi.
Comparing these expected multipliers, 2.05/1.90 = 7.9% increase; with Patience, 2.35/2.15 = 9.3% increase.
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Base damage wise, 2d6 avg 7 vs 2d4 avg 5 means you drop 2 base damage per dice (higher level & raid weapons have the same + to both, 2d6+6 vs 2d4+6 is still a 2 difference). Assuming endgame with 6.5[w] you're looking at 13 damage lost by switching from GSword to Falchion. If you're going FB T5 instead it might be 9.5[w] or 19 damage lol.
So the question becomes, is +13 damage or 8-9% bigger crits more damage? Math for that is pretty straightforward, is your base + bonus damage higher than 139 (if Patience) or 165 (if not)? Given 6.5[w] x 2d4+6 = 71.5, with 70-100 bonus damage you come out ahead - and with 2.5 or 3x stat modifier (depending on trance) you can do pretty easily, even before enhancements, deadly, etc.
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TL;DR: assuming you have enough Fort Bypass, falchion's better crit profile will easily outweigh greatsword's higher base damage. In a vacuum I'd eyeball it in the realm of +5% DPS, but please be aware that's a very vague estimate. From an optimization standpoint Paladins only use greatswords b/c of favored weapons (which to be clear they should).
Wow! TYVM for that write-up. I had a feeling it would kind of be more-or-less equal, and since I dont really have a choice in my next build, I'm glad to see it wont be a huge loss, even if its a small one, I'm ok with that just to try out other builds.