First time tank: looking for advice

[MaeveTuohy]

I'm going to play a tank for the first time. My character is full completionist (racial, epic, heroic, the iconics that matter) with 105RP.

I see lot of straight Paladin builds and want to know what people think is the best considering the development of the character.

Maybe 20 paladin isn't best way to go?

Also, is there a guide to playing a tank? I feel certain there is more to it than just standing, shift-blocking and using intimidate.

 

[seph1roth5]

Here's a great tank build someone put together for a low life tank. Since you have a lot more going on on that character you'll be better lol, or be able to tank before having ALL the gear.

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/low-life-pally-tank-build-for-difficult-content.10897/

 

[Bjond]

I'm going to play a tank for the first time.

One key point for tanking is context. Raids or quests? How many skulls?

IMHO, R1 raid tanks and R10 quest tanks are roughly the same in that if you can do one, you can probably do the other. There are some per-boss learning issues for raids. Higher skulls in raids will considerably narrow your build choices -- seek advice from the dedicated push raiders for that.

I adapted Tronko's Steel Maiden build for my 1st life tank; it worked great. Pretty much any tank build will work so much better with a completion character. My current tank can do R1 raid / R10 quest with a Rogue DRoll build on a baby completionist (just epic) -- lots of fun, but there's no hope of scaling it up for push raids.

If you're going to be leading PUG'ish raids, might consider a heal+tank. Can build one more than tanky enough to permit your attention to be more on spot heals for others than staying alive yourself.

So, uh .. tanking what and with what kind of groupies; ie. context?

 

[Hobgoblin]

pally is super strong.

just not the best.

but for low life - so nice

 

[Defunct]

20 pally is a safe tank, easier to work on lower lives IMO.

Different tanks builds can add in additional stuff you can do & especially when you start multiclassing, bears add in melee DPS, bard builds in CC & group buffs, alchi adds some fun mechanics with spiking & imbue damage, divines add in super sustain & multirole as healers, etc etc

Also, is there a guide to playing a tank? I feel certain there is more to it than just standing, shift-blocking and using intimidate.

It depends on the content, but in general your job is aggro management. Sometimes you want to circle strafe, sometimes you want to get in super close.

The biggest hurdle is DPS who don't understand threat management.

 

[Bjond]

is there a guide to playing a tank? I feel certain there is more to it than just standing, shift-blocking and using intimidate.

There's more; in general grab agro and face things away from squishies. This isn't for rogues; they don't need the back. DDO "flanking" just means "someone else has agro".

If a squishy steps between you and a mob, the mob will hit them, not you. If someone flips a raid boss away from tank, it can take out all your DPS at once.

Hate helps a lot. My weird tank has ~250 MP and does huge dps compared to beefy push tanks, though still pathetic compared to a real DPS. For the most part, he locks agro very solidly. However, some bosses regularly zero all agro; eg. Suulomades. Having a way to get agro back quickly is important (knight's challenge).

It can help a LOT to have a leap or multiple leaps (spring, EA:C3, etc) to jump to the problem and re-intimidate. Many bosses will put chains on the tank making moving without a leap nearly impossible.

Dragon tanking is a toe-to-toe dance, which keeps them swiping rather than breathing. Toe-dance or circling is how tanks easily solo tank Kor-Kaza during the raid-split phases.

T-Rex roars can be negated by standing directly underneath.

Blocking is critical for some things, such as LOB's stun + wallop, which is usually an insta-kill if you don't block. Block prevents stone-grab from Fey giants and HP curse from Barovia Shadows.

It's not ideal to turtle up all the time; eliminates all your melee agro and pretty much ensures even threat-80 DPS will yank it away from you.

Labrythine's Salt is amazing for quest tanking when combined with SDK chains or other AE. It helps keep things facing you rather than crawling around behind and facing every which way. The buff is great for boss/raid tanking, too. IMHO, it's probably the best tanking weapon in game.

 

[vryxnr]

T-Rex roars can be negated by standing directly underneath.

Good advice, but I have to amend this.

The roar of Death's Teeth in the Skeletons in the Closet raid is 3 ticks of raid wide sonic damage and 3 ticks of proximity based fire damage. The sonic is stopped by standing on the platforms, and the fire is avoided by being at least the diameter of the central platform away from rexy.

The BITE of Death's Teeth during his final phase (when he turns green) lowers the max HP of the character he bites. This is easily avoided by standing under him/hugging his legs, as he can't bite you when you are under him.

Just needed to clarify, as thinking the safe spot during Death's Teeth's roar being under him is a recipe for disaster.

Non-raid T-Rexes on the other hand have different roars.

 

[Bjond]

Non-raid T-Rexes on the other hand have different roars.

Ya, skel-rex is different from quest-rex.

Basically, when you decide to play a tank, you're volunteering to fill your head with "boss trivia" and deal with it so others don't have to. Most of it you won't be able to recollect on demand, but will pop up in context when you're tanking that boss.

A lot of folk will automatically look to the tank as the leader of the group, too -- at least for whom to follow. Gotta be ready to lead from the front in quests. Raid leading is more herding than follow me.

 

[Kyrr]

pally is super strong.

just not the best.

but for low life - so nice

One of the best tanks is paladin. Yeah, fighter gets good boosts but paladin has very high effective PRR and MRR which is good in almost every raid.

 

[peng]

With the crazy damage output available to top-tier builds nowadays, I would not recommend a pure intim-tank, as the 6 second cooldown is long enough that many builds can steal aggro from you. The exception would be a shifter and/or bear tank with the maul spell (or run with dps that have threat reduction).

 

[Kyrr]

With the crazy damage output available to top-tier builds nowadays, I would not recommend a pure intim-tank, as the 6 second cooldown is long enough that many builds can steal aggro from you. The exception would be a shifter and/or bear tank with the maul spell (or run with dps that have threat reduction).

The shield ability resets that hate built up, most DPS should be around 80-100% threat reduction that you would be able to intimitank. Hell, my paladin is going to Half Elf because the last few times I've been playing tank it's extremely hard to take aggro off me unless you run Threat Generation.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Definitely do not go with an intimi-tank - you don't want the boss turning. Ensure a high threat and don't completely dump dps.

Pure Paladins are definitely the best tanks for low-investment characters. PDK is perfect if you are willing to use a +1 stone to go pure paladin. Holy sword and zeal are low-cost dps boosts that make ap spending easier. Cha to hit and damage synchs nicely to boost your saves and intim even though you will be max con and cha secondary. The new gear makes it even easier, 3 piece sharn + 5 piece morgrave + new shield and boots. I threw in a stablestone for trinket on my first life tank to cover all the other absorbs.

If I was going to build a tank with a high investment character, I would go with vanguard tank as your defenses will be solid for tanking low skull/LH raids + r10 quests, but your dps will be much higher making R10 questing more fun. If you look at T5 sacred defender you are basically down 25 MRR and 100 hp. It's even less of an issue with stalwart defender. You can make up for that armor class from T5 sacred defender by going 21pts in macrotechnic. Take the shield defenses in T4 as you can use one of the new shields and keep your options open for set bonus with armor.

What ever you decide - have fun and enjoy learning tanking!

 

[MaeveTuohy]

Yowza, that's a lot to learn.

I am definitely not in the push-raiding scene and not interesting in investing the time to be part of it. Good luck to all who do and have a blast.

R1 raids and R10 questing is more my speed.

Looks like I should consider the paladin 20 build so I can ease into it.

From reading comments about "don't intimitank" I am sensing instead that the tactic is to have some level of DPS with a ton of threat amplification so I keep the attention of mobs and bosses that way. Have I understood correctly?

I shall have to get a labrythine, I don't currently have one. I think I have enough runes ...

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Yowza, that's a lot to learn.

I am definitely not in the push-raiding scene and not interesting in investing the time to be part of it. Good luck to all who do and have a blast.

R1 raids and R10 questing is more my speed.

Looks like I should consider the paladin 20 build so I can ease into it.

From reading comments about "don't intimitank" I am sensing instead that the tactic is to have some level of DPS with a ton of threat amplification so I keep the attention of mobs and bosses that way. Have I understood correctly?

I shall have to get a labrythine, I don't currently have one. I think I have enough runes ...

I would also consider Ignition: https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ignition,_the_Fear_and_Flame

You can easily take two handed speciality at 31 now and get extra damage plus strikethrough which is great for R10 questing. If you want to go paladin and are willing to use a +1 stone consider PDK with bastard sword.

 

[Mindos]

But what about the ghost flame???

 

[Grunndi]

R1 raids and R10 questing is more my speed.

For things like that with as developed of a toon as you have (full Comp, 100+ RPs), you really don’t need to go beef supreme pure tank, and tbh you’ll prob find it quite boring.

My advice would be to decide what else you want to be able to do and build around that. Possible extra options are, DPS for soloing/pugging and hate tanking, self healing, party healing, CC, Turning, party buffs, etc. For my main I wanted to be able to tank lower skull raids/r10s, do some moderate DPS, and self heal. You can find that build a little bit down the page (my picture links are all broken ?).

Although, if you’re totally new to tanking, a pure tank will be more forgiving while you get your bearings, and you can respec your AP/EDs pretty easily later.

 

[MaeveTuohy]

I would also consider Ignition: https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ignition,_the_Fear_and_Flame

You can easily take two handed speciality at 31 now and get extra damage plus strikethrough which is great for R10 questing. If you want to go paladin and are willing to use a +1 stone consider PDK with bastard sword.

Only run Fire twice, so I am away off having the runes for it.

That said, I have a bunch of +5 and +20 hearts so going PDK (which I don't dislike the look of, unlike many others) would be a serious option.

Thanks.

 

[MaeveTuohy]

For things like that with as developed of a toon as you have (full Comp, 100+ RPs), you really don’t need to go beef supreme pure tank, and tbh you’ll prob find it quite boring.

My advice would be to decide what else you want to be able to do and build around that. Possible extra options are, DPS for soloing/pugging and hate tanking, self healing, party healing, CC, Turning, party buffs, etc. For my main I wanted to be able to tank lower skull raids/r10s, do some moderate DPS, and self heal. You can find that build a little bit down the page (my picture links are all broken ?).

Although, if you’re totally new to tanking, a pure tank will be more forgiving while you get your bearings, and you can respec your AP/EDs pretty easily later.

Thanks, I will check out your build.

And yes, keeping it simple at first may be the way to go.