Half Orc Pure Two Hand fighting Warchanter

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Hireling

Well-known member
Heyas, I was planning out a melee HORC 2HF Warchanter.

Here is the plan: Put all starting AP into Warchanter at the beginning and capitalize on things like Sprint Boost and Boast for Temp HP and level up. Get into Medium Armor as soon as I can.

I will mainly use a Min Level 2 Maelstrom then Carnifex then SoS then ESoS then a Blackrazor.

Eventually spread some AP into Swashbuckler and Vistani.

I want to spend 11 into Vistani to get Deflect arrows, Haste Boost etc.

11 AP in Swashbuckler for En Point (will spam this as an active attack) and Uncanny Dodge and movement speed.

I will definitely put at least 41 points into WC, probably more like 50+

I will mainly use buffing spells like Haste, Blur, Displacement Greater Heroism, Merfolk's Blessing Rage, Freedom of Movement etc.
And my Crowd Control with be Warchanter Freezy stuff and DC-less Spells like Otto's Irresistable Dance, Grease.
Can try the regular discoball and soundburst too.
Will also have a few Cure and mass cure Spells.

The rest of AP into Half-Orc.

Feats:
1 Two Hand Fighting
3 Power Attack (Horc has enhancements to this)
6 Unsure
9 Improved Two Hand Fighting
12 Improved Crit Slashing
15 Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 Unsure
21 Overwhelming Crit
past this...I don't know

The big thing I am curious about is: what feats for level 6 and 18. Was curious if Stunning Blow would be worth it with +Stun Gear and high-ish STR? Or should I take Extend early on and then swap it out later when Haste and Displacement become longer duration? Maximize or Empower Heal? Maybe Cleave/Greater Cleave? I don't know if Dodge/Mobility is worth it (I may be at dodge cap with Medium Armor).

Any advice/suggestions is certainly appreciated!

Oh, I know that 1 level Fighter/FVS/Warlock etc could unlock X, but I wanna be a pure Horc Warchanter.
 
W

WielderofGigantus

Well-known member
I'm not quite sure how you're spamming En Pointe when it has a 12 second cooldown.

Also, according to the wiki, Grease is useless outside the very beginning of the game. Not sure how effective dance sphere and sound burst since you'll apparently be strength based instead of charisma based.

As for the feats, yeah, you probably don't need cleave and great cleave since you'll have the strikethrough, so that's probably a good idea to pick up Extend at first and swap it out for the Maximize and Empower Heal to use with Warchanter's SLAs.

Not sure the Vistani tree is worth it since you'll be getting Deflect Arrows from Swashbuckler. Honestly, you might be better off skipping one or the other and putting points into the Horc racial tree. The strikethrough, extra strength, extra power attack, and orcish rage would probably add a lot to your offensive capabilities.
 
H

Hireling

Well-known member
Vistani is mainly for haste boost. Can get deflect arrows for free along the way in that. The C3 in Vistani grants 5% double attack and Quick draw. The C2 grants deflect arrows.

By not picking deflect arrows for 2 AP in Swashbuckler, I can get 2 into movement speed and 3 into En Point to an Even 10. Then take 1 to get Uncanny Dodge.

En Point is mainly just a way to get a borderline guaranteed Double Attack with a 2 hand weapon (with strike through). Think of it as gimpef Whirlwind Attack. It's not bad AoE freeze stuff, then hit En Point to hopefully splash dmg a few and save a stunning blow or trip (STR mod) or single target freeze for whatever is left when freeze wears off. If stuff is still up, an Ottos Irrestiable Dance works well.

Yeah the extend early and then swap put for empower heal. Or maximize seems like the play for sure!

Thanks forbthe feedback!

100% agree on Disco Ball and Sound Burst. Though I have the past lives to help with the Sound Burst a bit. I will have to "pick my save". Aka, Sound burst on casters, and disco on grunts. Certainly not at no fail territory, but would be useful soloing.

Grease used to deny dex bonus to AC and opened up monsters to Sneak Attacks. Unsure if it still does this.
 
U

unbongwah

Well-known member
Main drawback of THF pure Warchanter is not getting any crit bonus besides Howl of the North (+1x on 19-20); also not getting a Battle Trance unless you e.g. put points into INT and took Know the Angles. Whereas if you did, say, bard 13 / fighter 6 / cleric 1, you'd gain 4 extra feats, Divine Might, and Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier) while still keeping T5 Warchanter; only giving up level 6 spells, last 2 WC cores, and a few seconds' duration on WC freeze attacks.

But presuming you're already aware of the drawbacks and wanna stick with this, I'd say go max-STR with rest of the points into CON & INT. Don't bother with subpar offensive spellcasting, just go all-in on melee CC + DPS. If you've got enough extra racial points, AP spread should be something like 41 WC / 12 SB / 18 HO (Brutality) / 11 Vistani / 6+ Harper (Know the Angles). T5 FotW + Draconic Rage: Spinning Ice -> Quick Cutter combo should be nice.

EDIT: Baseline AP spread
Enhancements (Spent: 80 +2r +1u / Max: 80 +2r +1u AP)

Warchanter (41 AP)
  • Skaldic: Rage, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit, Victory Song, Skaldic Scream
    1. Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda III
    2. Boast III, Ballad Melody: Arcane Shield III, Iced Edges
    3. Ironskin Chant III, Frozen Fury III
    4. Ballad Melody: Recklessness III, Armorer, Northwind III
    5. Chant of Power III, Howl of the North, Spinning Ice III
Half-Orc (18 AP)
  • Orcish Fury, Orcish Strength, Orcish Fury II, Orcish Strength II
    1. Orcish Weapon Training
    2. Orcish Weapon Training
    3. Great Weapon Aptitude III, Orcish Weapon Training
    4. Brutality, Orcish Weapon Training
Swashbuckler (10 AP)
  • Confidence
    1. Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
    2. En Pointe III, Fast Movement
Vistani Knife Fighter (8 AP)
  • Knife Expertise
    1. Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Acrobatic I
    2. Haste Boost III
Harper Agent (6 AP)
  • Agent of Good I
    1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
    2. Know the Angles I
Click to expand...
 
H

Hireling

Well-known member
unbongwah said:
Main drawback of THF pure Warchanter is not getting any crit bonus besides Howl of the North (+1x on 19-20); also not getting a Battle Trance unless you e.g. put points into INT and took Know the Angles. Whereas if you did, say, bard 13 / fighter 6 / cleric 1, you'd gain 4 extra feats, Divine Might, and Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier) while still keeping T5 Warchanter; only giving up level 6 spells, last 2 WC cores, and a few seconds' duration on WC freeze attacks.

But presuming you're already aware of the drawbacks and wanna stick with this, I'd say go max-STR with rest of the points into CON & INT. Don't bother with subpar offensive spellcasting, just go all-in on melee CC + DPS. If you've got enough extra racial points, AP spread should be something like 41 WC / 12 SB / 18 HO (Brutality) / 11 Vistani / 6+ Harper (Know the Angles). T5 FotW + Draconic Rage: Spinning Ice -> Quick Cutter combo should be nice.

EDIT: Baseline AP spread
Click to expand...
This is really really helpful. I will mess around with this a lot, but dipping further into HORC like you said is definitely the way to go with the Freezy Ice and Helpless damage. As always, thank you so much for helping me flesh this out.
I have the 2 extra Universal AP so hoping I can maybe extend KTA a little, but if not, no biggie.

As I was typing a response to the Battle Cleric build, I realized, I am OK with multiclass if it makes sense for that character. The example I used of soemthing I don't like is the "18class/1 cleric or FVS for DM and 1 Warlock for the weird ED". That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me with a character's backstory. I don't mind a little fighter on a Battle Cleric because its easy to rationalize. Another "natural" multiclass to me is Barbarian onto a Warchanter Bard.

Would some Barbarian onto this be worth it? I see Barbarian gets Uncanny Dodge for "free" at level 4. Would 16Bard/4 Barb make sense? Specifically want to stay 2 Handed and I see I could get a lot of Strike Through with that. I wonder if Boast and Blood Tribute stack?

Will try this Pure one before and like you said, just go all in on STR and melee CC. Having 2 Level 6 Spells on bard still gives me Mass CMW and Otto's Irresistable Dance (no save...its helpful)

For feats, its the 3 THF feats, Imp Crit, PA. Curious if Stunning Blow would be worth it since I will be gearing in Stunning Items. Wonder if I am not doing any offensive spell casting if Quicken would still be worth it? Or Empower Heal for the Mass Cures and single target cures. Will definitely look further into this. 95% sure I want to do my HORC Racials next. Though I do need 1 more Sacred Fist to finish my Healing Amp stuff.
 
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U

unbongwah

Well-known member
Barbarian 2 gives Blood Tribute (moar temp HPs is always welcome), +10% run speed, and +20% Strikethrough (Angry Arms). Also gives access to low-tier Rage enhancements that stack with FotW's. Gives up a couple of spells and WC capstone, obviously, although I'm not a fan of Skaldic Scream; 2-minute cooldown on a 6-second stun is too long IMO. The real drawback is APs get really tight; I can only see dropping HO racial tree for points to put into barb trees instead.

Beyond that gets iffier. T5 Frenzied Berserker is great for 2H DPS, but it locks you out from Spinning Ice, which I'm guessing is something you want to keep? Otherwise yeah barb 5 / bard 15 (T5 Berserker + T4 Warchanter) has most bard buffs (including Inspire Heroics) with +2 crit multiplier for falchions, Sword of Shadow, etc.
 
gurth83

gurth83

Active member
Honestly, THF WC's feats are straightforward.
01) THF
03) PA/Precision
06) Emp Healing Spell (usefull with Spell Singer healing SLA)
09) ITHF
12) IC
15) GTHF
18) Quicken Spell (Dimension Door for escape, Irrestible Otto Dance for CC Reapers)

Epic destines heal SLAs benefit from both Quicken and Emp Healing.

EDIT:
As mentoined WC capstone is a bit joke. There is no real purpose to go 20 WC. Better to go 18 and split somwhere else.
Going 20 you get more spells but there is no more usefull spells for melee to pick. Skaldic scream is nice, but it cost song, 2 min cooldown is bad too, DC is same as Frozen Furry/Spinning Ice. Might be some sort of last resort if you fail land CC on both, but as capstone I woudl expect something better eg DC starting 20 instead of 14.
2 CON is nice, 2 CHA if you go STR is pointless.
25hp... ekhm
1 dice... ekhm

Picking 1 lev of Cleric/FVS can give 15hp and Divine Might (CHA Mod to att, dmg, tactical DC). More spell points (FVS more than cle) and Magical Traingng Feat good for CHA based WC with Feydark Ilusionist becasue this feat is requirement. If you pick DA as Cleric you can get another 15hp and evli imbue with QStaffs - less mobs are resistant to evil dmg than cold dmg. Spells: Nightshield to block Magic Missiles and Protection from Evilt to block some of mental spells form evil creatures.

Thats why u commonly see 18bard/1cle/1fighter split.
1 fighter - 1 more feat so you can take some feats faster if you level up fighter in right moment:
PA/Prec at 2nd lev
ITH at 8th lev
IC at 11th lev

Personaly I prefer to take Dragonlord because it can boost tactical DC by 4 (1st core, +2 Morale aura, +1battelfield tactican) and on top of that can take +20% to strikethrought.

My personal favorite at this moment is 18 WC/1DA/1DL if you want 18 lev of WC. I consider 16 levels as minimum for WC (quickend irrestible otto dance is too good).
 
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deem of many

deem of many

Active member
Maybe consider splashing even more, focusing on melee as said above.
BRB 5 FB = very good
DRL 3+ for second wind, extra feats, dragon CC shout ("in tune" with a STR BARD), haste boost AND trance, its just too much good stuff.
I would say the standard split would be BRB 5 / DRL 4 / BRD 11, and still might concede even more BRD levels to DRL for a feat hungry build.

being a bard lover, I've been trying a lot of different builds on past year, still long for some big breakthrough, but paths seem to divert into the splashes mentioned in this reply for melee focus, and two others (offensive sonic or electric caster and spellsinger enchantment/illusion CC)
still working very hard to try to ate least combine two of those 3 into a build...

...but for now, just using any gear I could put my hands into, melee bard kind of struggles on anything past R4, not enough CC for anything (been mainly trying illusion + feydark enhancements with color spray). healing is atrocious on mid and high reapers, seems to need lots more of HAMP although can very effectively heal others using shouts. but then again, that might be the case everywhere on every build. and damage is slowly getting there (although I'm SWF, SWASH with Haxe, macrotech t5).
 
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