Hidden nerf to evocation boots since last update?

[Sturmbb]

The good news is it's not as difficult to boost DCs as it used to be. We have multiple int +2 filigrees (if you don't mind farming some raids), the u81 gear has some good DC items, and we got a small boost to DCs from feats. Are these DCs at cap play or lower level? Are you using level 30 gear? Do you have a 9-10 slot sentient gem and a 5 slot artifact?

I'm running MD gear, and was building up the slots for the sentient weapon and MA. But after the DC pass, which i really thought would help. I realized the grind is just not worh the effort. I'm about 37 points short of running end game reaper content. I think before the pass i was at about 88 points. so the pass has increased my DC's by about 5 points. I'm playing at cap. (was playing IOD,Vecna,MD & Chill) but when trash mobs in the wilderness are making their saves, thats when you realize the reward isnt worth the grind.

This weekend i might venture into korthos and see if my spells will land. Somehow i doubt it LOL

I've decided to park my caster for now and just play range and melee were i can actually contribute in quests. Any BTA items i get that improve my DC's ill put aside. but to be honest nothing has dropped upto now that will increase my DC's. (i have the new pack, so im hoping some of those items may improve it, but i doubt it will improve it by 37 points).

I know there doing a balance pass at the end of the year. So maybe if they do something amazing and lower the DC threshold or increase the DC's on items, feats or enhancements i can revisit my caster.

At the beginning of the year i was determined to make a caster viable for end game content, so i really did give it a great shot. But I have finally realized that the old saying is true "if you can't beat them join them".

 

[vik]

It's up to you, but you can hit 130 It is definitely a grind. Maybe retire your caster from pug life for a bit to avoid frustration and farm sentient xp on the side. Let your other toons farm threads and caster u81 gear and pass them to your caster.

 

[torkz]

I am going to completely disagree with this. i played on my caster for most of this year, trying to get the best gear to increase my DC's. I am currently at 93 (i know other casual caster players running alot lower DC's than this, as they havent managed to acquire the required gear that i have) and pretty much every monster makes their saves. Even in the wilderness (not new expansion) they are making their saves (which is crazy. as wilderness areas are considered to be at normal level). How can monsters in normal difficulty content be making their saves against a 93 DC spell.

The best way to play casters at the moment (at least for casual players like me) is to grab healing spells from the destiny trees and stay at the back and heal the rest of the party.

My range toon doesnt have half the named items my DC caster has and can easily kill the same monsters in a matter of seconds before they get anywhere close to me (i have my draw distance at maximum). Not only that, but my range doesnt expend any type of resources when attacking.
My caster on the other hand pretty much runs out of SP all of the time.

At the moment, Range is the best gamestyle to play. I am hoping the balance pass addresses this issue. At end game content about 80% if not more players i pug with are running ranged builds.

I definitely do not want them to nerf range as the monsters have that much hp any nerfs would hurt that playstyle. They need to bring casters and melee up to the same level as Ranged. Heck i'd even go as far to say, melee should be dealing the most DPS. As they are in the most danger.

You are absolutely right in saying that as a casual player, ranged characters are your best option. Melee is also strong. The point I was making, and I stand by, is that DCs are not the major issue with casters in high reaper.

I'm retired now, and I play quite a bit. I'm VIP, but I don't reroll chests a lot and I'm kind of allergic to long farming runs. I rarely am on ransack on chests, even when hunting down objects.

With this background, I will say I am at about 150 Transmutation, 145 Conjuration, 136 Illusion on my main character with the new gear. This took about three sagas on the newest expansion to collect the gear. These numbers could be higher with a little more tweaking and more focus on DCs above all other priorities. ( I'm playing Duergar instead of gnome for alchemist, which also costs a couple DC).

Roughly 7 of the DCs are due to PLs, and ~4 to reaper points. So a fresh character would be about 10 less in each school.

Edit: I admit I forgot the grind to max out a sentient gem...also important, but it just takes a little time and focus.

TLDR...120-130 DCs in at least a couple of schools is achievable fairly easily even on fresh characters. While this is definitely not no-fail in the new content, it's functional. But DPS is still abysmal...

 

[torkz]

Torkz you apprently did not read or understand the post you quoted. He said without fusilage, which being the key differentiator.

I read it and am aware of how to DPS with an Artificer. Are you (or is he) suggesting that without Endless Fusillade, an Artificer and Sorcerer have comparable DPS in R10?

Sorry, but the Artificer would still win by a fairly large margin, but perhaps not by double.

Still, it seems pointless to discuss this hypothetical hamstring unless you're trying to argue nerfs for ranged DPS. (Why would you not use the tools available?)

But ranged nerfs is not my intention. I would like to see caster DPS increased to get in the same ballpark.

 

[justin credible]

I read it and am aware of how to DPS with an Artificer. Are you (or is he) suggesting that without Endless Fusillade, an Artificer and Sorcerer have comparable DPS in R10?

Sorry, but the Artificer would still win by a fairly large margin, but perhaps not by double.

Still, it seems pointless to discuss this hypothetical hamstring unless you're trying to argue nerfs for ranged DPS. (Why would you not use the tools available?)

But ranged nerfs is not my intention. I would like to see caster DPS increased to get in the same ballpark.

im just drawing a distinction between dps and burst dps
casters do not have a comparable way to go into overdrive. nothing similar to endless fusillade+inexorable advance

 

[torkz]

im just drawing a distinction between dps and burst dps
casters do not have a comparable way to go into overdrive. nothing similar to endless fusillade+inexorable advance

Fair enough. Casters do have some burst mechanics, but nothing as impactful as fusillade+inexorable advance.

Unless you count time stop...but they share that with everyone!

 

[Sturmbb]

It's up to you, but you can hit 130 It is definitely a grind. Maybe retire your caster from pug life for a bit to avoid frustration and farm sentient xp on the side. Let your other toons farm threads and caster u81 gear and pass them to your caster.

Yea, that is my train of thought. Thankfully alot of the gear is BTA, so i have put my caster weapons in my shared bank so i can feed them named items (that i wont use) and anything that will improve my caster ill set aside for them.

It's just a shame that you are actively encouraged to play a different class to gain the gear for a caster.

I can't think of any other games that require this mechanic of having to farm gear on a different class, as the class you want to use is unplayable until you have the correct gear.

 

[Sturmbb]

You are absolutely right in saying that as a casual player, ranged characters are your best option. Melee is also strong. The point I was making, and I stand by, is that DCs are not the major issue with casters in high reaper.

I'm retired now, and I play quite a bit. I'm VIP, but I don't reroll chests a lot and I'm kind of allergic to long farming runs. I rarely am on ransack on chests, even when hunting down objects.

With this background, I will say I am at about 150 Transmutation, 145 Conjuration, 136 Illusion on my main character with the new gear. This took about three sagas on the newest expansion to collect the gear. These numbers could be higher with a little more tweaking and more focus on DCs above all other priorities. ( I'm playing Duergar instead of gnome for alchemist, which also costs a couple DC).

Roughly 7 of the DCs are due to PLs, and ~4 to reaper points. So a fresh character would be about 10 less in each school.

Edit: I admit I forgot the grind to max out a sentient gem...also important, but it just takes a little time and focus.

TLDR...120-130 DCs in at least a couple of schools is achievable fairly easily even on fresh characters. While this is definitely not no-fail in the new content, it's functional. But DPS is still abysmal...

Thank you for the response.

Those numbers you have posted. just feel so unreachable. I put alot of time and effort to get to a DC of 93 (Farming the right quests for stacking DC gear, getting the right solar/lunar augments etc etc). It wouldnt be too bad if i could go into the wilderness area and actually contribute. But failing in old wilderness content (which is normal) really made me open my eyes to how bad playing a caster is.

I did consider TRing my caster to gain Past lives. but i think i would end up getting burnt out. (which ironically happened anyway lol)
I just don't agree that to play a class you need to TR multiple times before they are playable.

I actually wish i had never touched my caster this year and just played range.Than farmed the necessary gear. That way i wouldnt be soo burned out now.

Anyway im back to enjoying the game, hurrah for ranged

I am in 2 minds of the balance pass. i am really really hoping they dont nerf range. As than it will be another playstyle i wont be able to run.
but i am hoping they do something with casters, to allow casual players to actually run them.

 

[Honkin]

93 is low. Like, really low. You can fall out of bed and get over 100 on a first life toon. Give that, yes, the game is going to be harder until you improve your DCs and your spellpower.

 

[Sturmbb]

93 is low. Like, really low. You can fall out of bed and get over 100 on a first life toon. Give that, yes, the game is going to be harder until you improve your DCs and your spellpower.

Hi there,

I am going go have to disagree with you, i actually know casual players who only have 70-75 DC. I am talking about completely fresh casual players with no past lives. I agree that 93 is low for end cap, but i can assure you its not low to actually farm the gear to get to 93. Seems i have been farming for most of the year.

Remember alot of DC stats do not stack. putting on a +8 enhancement DC bonus item and a +9 enhacment DC bonus item, wouldnt give you +17 DC it would only give you a +9 DC bonus.

I am a casual player, so farming content and getting named items isn't something that is easy. Remember i was trying to farm the content on my caster which means i cannot actually solo anything. so i was at the complete mercy of joining pugs and running whatever content they ran.

I'm assuming you are a top player, so you don't know what its like for casual players to gain gear.

Now that im playing a different playstyle and can choose the quests i run. I'm hoping to get better gear. but gaining 37 - 47 points does seem like an impossible mountain to climb.

It might be just easier to stick to this different playstyle and hope the balance pass, helps casual players wanting to play casters.

 

[vik]

I think a lot of forumites don't consider the casual experience. They won't have the past lives, reaper trees, and gear that others have. A full reaper caster tree gives you +6 DC. A full filigree set with raid runes can give you int +18, all dcs +5, necro +2. u81 gear can give you +13/+6 or better in a specific spell school. That's not even considering past lives. It's a massive difference between casual and fully geared.

For gear, do you have all the boxes ticked? Enhancement/insightful/quality/profane/exceptional/festive/artifact int? Equipment/insightful/quality/profane/sacred/exceptional/artifact spell focus?

I'd encourage you to farm because I don't think we'll get any more DC boosts with the balance pass. I think the focus will be caster DPS and making r10 harder.

 

[Honkin]

Hi there,

I am going go have to disagree with you, i actually know casual players who only have 70-75 DC. I am talking about completely fresh casual players with no past lives. I agree that 93 is low for end cap, but i can assure you its not low to actually farm the gear to get to 93. Seems i have been farming for most of the year.

Remember alot of DC stats do not stack. putting on a +8 enhancement DC bonus item and a +9 enhacment DC bonus item, wouldnt give you +17 DC it would only give you a +9 DC bonus.

I am a casual player, so farming content and getting named items isn't something that is easy. Remember i was trying to farm the content on my caster which means i cannot actually solo anything. so i was at the complete mercy of joining pugs and running whatever content they ran.

I'm assuming you are a top player, so you don't know what its like for casual players to gain gear.

Now that im playing a different playstyle and can choose the quests i run. I'm hoping to get better gear. but gaining 37 - 47 points does seem like an impossible mountain to climb.

It might be just easier to stick to this different playstyle and hope the balance pass, helps casual players wanting to play casters.

It does not require any past lives or reaper points to get 100, much less 110. Here, let me show you:

Charisma breakdown

Source	Calculation	Notes
total	82
base	18	Need a +Cha race like Tiefling or Dragonborn for 20
levelup	9
tome	3
item	15
insight	6	Strap of Savviness
quality	3
artifact	4
profane	4
enhancements	10	2 racial, 2 EK/Feydark, 2 savant, 4 capstone
airship	2
Filigree	5	Pared down to 5 on weapon and 3 on artifact
Primal	2	Requires Primal Avatar as a destiny
Exceptional	1	Globe of True Imperial Blood

Evocation DCs breakdown:

Evocation	Calculation	Notes
Total	112
Base	10
Spell Level	9
Charisma	36
Equipment	11	Ring of Manifest Magic
Insightful	4	Night Hag's Heartstone/Ring of Mystic X
Quality	2	X Longsword of the Fallen Age
Profane	3	Lunar augment
Sacred	2	Gloryborne gloves
Artifact	3	Vol's Influence
Guild Ship	1
Scion feat	4
Eye of the Beholder	2
Lunar Magic	1
ED base	4
Feat	8	SF, GSF, ESF, LSF
Embolden	2
Enhancements	4
From ED Tree	3
ED Capstone	3

Filigree assumptions

Position	Filigrees	Set	Bonus type	Stat bonus
1	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
3	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1
4	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	USP
5	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
1	Filigree (artifact)	Dragonsoul	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (artifact)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
3	Filigree (artifact)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1

This does require a +3 tome, airship buffs, Gloryborne Gloves (a tedious but easy farm), and some MD items. I also did not include raid filigrees in my calculation, and assumed 5 slots on your weapon and 3 slots on your artifact.

I consider myself a modestly sweaty player; our guild (CoP Crusaders of Peace) is a mix of casual and people like myself. I started playing again in 2024 after a 10-year break, playing mostly casters so yeah, I remember what it's like to farm that content. You ask friends and guild and strangers for help. I started by doing legendary Sharn saga on EH so I could at least farm out better gear than what I had on. Started from the bottom, now I'm doing r6 raids and r10 quests.

I can give you a detailed breakdown of gear if you're still skeptical. If you're on Thrane, happy to help you farm it out. You tell me what you think is unreasonable.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to solo Legendary Elite at level 30 on any build, caster or not. You're going to need a modicum of gear in order to survive and do damage and that will require friends, twink gear, or running on a lower difficulty.

 

[Aelastiar]

This is a really, really good point, and I hope devs read this!

The caster DPS fix could be as simple as:

1. Equalize the high reaper penalty
2. Give casters something like an Arcane Supremacy feat that works off of action boost charges

Honestly, I agree with you; those two things would fix caster DPS at least broadly. There are some individual classes that could then use a boost, but this would help tremendously.

As well, they can buff wellspring of power to something like 500 spellpower, 100% crit damage, or reaper spellpower action boost to something similar in power to 45% doublestrike...not a paltry 45 profane spellpower. And action boost spellpower to something similar in power to haste boost, not a paltry 30 spellpower.

 

[Sturmbb]

It does not require any past lives or reaper points to get 100, much less 110. Here, let me show you:

https://imgur.com/a/iiGH6hC

This does require a +3 tome, airship buffs, Gloryborne Gloves (a tedious but easy farm), and some MD items. I also did not include raid filigrees in my calculation, and assumed 5 slots on your weapon and 3 slots on your artifact.

I consider myself a modestly sweaty player; our guild (CoP Crusaders of Peace) is a mix of casual and people like myself. I started playing again in 2024 after a 10-year break, playing mostly casters so yeah, I remember what it's like to farm that content. You ask friends and guild and strangers for help. I started by doing legendary Sharn saga on EH so I could at least farm out better gear than what I had on. Started from the bottom, now I'm doing r6 raids and r10 quests.

I can give you a detailed breakdown of gear if you're still skeptical. If you're on Thrane, happy to help you farm it out. You tell me what you think is unreasonable.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to solo Legendary Elite at level 30 on any build, caster or not. You're going to need a modicum of gear in order to survive and do damage and that will require friends, twink gear, or running on a lower difficulty.

Hi Thankyou for the response and advice

for some reason even using a VPN wont show me the image you have posted.

I have started running quests on a different character with a different playstyle. So hopefully the items will start dropping.

It's just a shame, i cant actually use my caster to get the gear i require, sure i can keep piking / healing in pugs. but to be honest im pretty burnt out with that playstyle.

Hopefully once i have the items required, i'll be able to jump back on my caster. im still doubtfull an extra 7 - 17 points of DC, is going to magically stop the mobs saving. People i have talked to say you really need 130 minimum before your spells will start regularly landing in end game content.

I think the main reason i perserved for so long, was due to the upcoming DC balance pass and i thought they were really going to make a difference.

In fact the 130 i was quoted was before the new expansion, so im assuming if i want to run the new expansion im looking at maybe 140+
so now i need 47 points of DC.

At the moment ive parked my caster. Once i have the gear and the desire to play them again, I'll give them another try.

 

[Honkin]

Hi Thankyou for the response and advice

for some reason even using a VPN wont show me the image you have posted.

I have started running quests on a different character with a different playstyle. So hopefully the items will start dropping.

It's just a shame, i cant actually use my caster to get the gear i require, sure i can keep piking / healing in pugs. but to be honest im pretty burnt out with that playstyle.

Hopefully once i have the items required, i'll be able to jump back on my caster. im still doubtfull an extra 7 - 17 points of DC, is going to magically stop the mobs saving. People i have talked to say you really need 130 minimum before your spells will start regularly landing in end game content.

I think the main reason i perserved for so long, was due to the upcoming DC balance pass and i thought they were really going to make a difference.

In fact the 130 i was quoted was before the new expansion, so im assuming if i want to run the new expansion im looking at maybe 140+
so now i need 47 points of DC.

At the moment ive parked my caster. Once i have the gear and the desire to play them again, I'll give them another try.

I replaced the images with an inline table, hopefully that helps.

Unlike to-hit, spell DCs are still on the d20. Why does that matter? It means that 1 point of spell DCs means your spells will land 5% more often. So another 5-15 points of DCs can actually mean your spells succeed 25-75% more often.

130-150 DC range means you're getting into no-fail territory, but that doesn't mean you can't still contribute with lower DCs. I just did Gravenhollow r10 with a group last night and was doing okay with 125 on my evoker FvS:

• You learn how to hit stuff on its weak save (hit melee with reflex/will save spells, archers with fort/will save, casters with fort/reflex save)
• You debuff stuff to reduce their saves
• You layer your spells so you catch more trash with CC and keep them helpless longer

Would I love to have more DCs? Absolutely, and I know what I'm missing. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying my preferred classes.

It's definitely different than melee or ranged attacks because they've since moved those to a percent-based system and added grazing hits. I'm old enough to remember back in the original Epic difficulty when Malicia had crazy high AC and most of the melee could only hit her on an 18 or higher.

 

[Contessor]

It does not require any past lives or reaper points to get 100, much less 110. Here, let me show you:

Charisma breakdown

Source	Calculation	Notes
total	82
base	18	Need a +Cha race like Tiefling or Dragonborn for 20
levelup	9
tome	3
item	15
insight	6	Strap of Savviness
quality	3
artifact	4
profane	4
enhancements	10	2 racial, 2 EK/Feydark, 2 savant, 4 capstone
airship	2
Filigree	5	Pared down to 5 on weapon and 3 on artifact
Primal	2	Requires Primal Avatar as a destiny
Exceptional	1	Globe of True Imperial Blood

Evocation DCs breakdown:

Evocation	Calculation	Notes
Total	112
Base	10
Spell Level	9
Charisma	36
Equipment	11	Ring of Manifest Magic
Insightful	4	Night Hag's Heartstone/Ring of Mystic X
Quality	2	X Longsword of the Fallen Age
Profane	3	Lunar augment
Sacred	2	Gloryborne gloves
Artifact	3	Vol's Influence
Guild Ship	1
Scion feat	4
Eye of the Beholder	2
Lunar Magic	1
ED base	4
Feat	8	SF, GSF, ESF, LSF
Embolden	2
Enhancements	4
From ED Tree	3
ED Capstone	3

Filigree assumptions

Position	Filigrees	Set	Bonus type	Stat bonus
1	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
3	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1
4	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	USP
5	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
1	Filigree (artifact)	Dragonsoul	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (artifact)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
3	Filigree (artifact)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1

This does require a +3 tome, airship buffs, Gloryborne Gloves (a tedious but easy farm), and some MD items. I also did not include raid filigrees in my calculation, and assumed 5 slots on your weapon and 3 slots on your artifact.

I consider myself a modestly sweaty player; our guild (CoP Crusaders of Peace) is a mix of casual and people like myself. I started playing again in 2024 after a 10-year break, playing mostly casters so yeah, I remember what it's like to farm that content. You ask friends and guild and strangers for help. I started by doing legendary Sharn saga on EH so I could at least farm out better gear than what I had on. Started from the bottom, now I'm doing r6 raids and r10 quests.

I can give you a detailed breakdown of gear if you're still skeptical. If you're on Thrane, happy to help you farm it out. You tell me what you think is unreasonable.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to solo Legendary Elite at level 30 on any build, caster or not. You're going to need a modicum of gear in order to survive and do damage and that will require friends, twink gear, or running on a lower difficulty.

110 DC? Outside of hard end game content, why even bother with DCs. You are saving on very little. And what about spell penn? And I do not hard or elite content at all in end game, so I am not even sure this will satisfy anything 34+ for at least 75% success. Maybe half?

 

[Tyrande]

It's up to you, but you can hit 130 It is definitely a grind. Maybe retire your caster from pug life for a bit to avoid frustration and farm sentient xp on the side. Let your other toons farm threads and caster u81 gear and pass them to your caster.

The question is why is 130 required nowadays to land a no-fail spell cast on r10? I don't hear melee or ranged saying that they need +2xxx to hit or whatever to hit monsters?

 

[Tyrande]

It does not require any past lives or reaper points to get 100, much less 110. Here, let me show you:

Charisma breakdown

Source	Calculation	Notes
total	82
base	18	Need a +Cha race like Tiefling or Dragonborn for 20
levelup	9
tome	3
item	15
insight	6	Strap of Savviness
quality	3
artifact	4
profane	4
enhancements	10	2 racial, 2 EK/Feydark, 2 savant, 4 capstone
airship	2
Filigree	5	Pared down to 5 on weapon and 3 on artifact
Primal	2	Requires Primal Avatar as a destiny
Exceptional	1	Globe of True Imperial Blood

Evocation DCs breakdown:

Evocation	Calculation	Notes
Total	112
Base	10
Spell Level	9
Charisma	36
Equipment	11	Ring of Manifest Magic
Insightful	4	Night Hag's Heartstone/Ring of Mystic X
Quality	2	X Longsword of the Fallen Age
Profane	3	Lunar augment
Sacred	2	Gloryborne gloves
Artifact	3	Vol's Influence
Guild Ship	1
Scion feat	4
Eye of the Beholder	2
Lunar Magic	1
ED base	4
Feat	8	SF, GSF, ESF, LSF
Embolden	2
Enhancements	4
From ED Tree	3
ED Capstone	3

Filigree assumptions

Position	Filigrees	Set	Bonus type	Stat bonus
1	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
3	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1
4	Filigree (weapon)	Lunar Magic	USP
5	Filigree (weapon)	Eye of the Beholder	USP
1	Filigree (artifact)	Dragonsoul	Charisma	1
2	Filigree (artifact)	Eye of the Beholder	Charisma	1
3	Filigree (artifact)	Lunar Magic	Charisma	1

This does require a +3 tome, airship buffs, Gloryborne Gloves (a tedious but easy farm), and some MD items. I also did not include raid filigrees in my calculation, and assumed 5 slots on your weapon and 3 slots on your artifact.

I consider myself a modestly sweaty player; our guild (CoP Crusaders of Peace) is a mix of casual and people like myself. I started playing again in 2024 after a 10-year break, playing mostly casters so yeah, I remember what it's like to farm that content. You ask friends and guild and strangers for help. I started by doing legendary Sharn saga on EH so I could at least farm out better gear than what I had on. Started from the bottom, now I'm doing r6 raids and r10 quests.

I can give you a detailed breakdown of gear if you're still skeptical. If you're on Thrane, happy to help you farm it out. You tell me what you think is unreasonable.

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to solo Legendary Elite at level 30 on any build, caster or not. You're going to need a modicum of gear in order to survive and do damage and that will require friends, twink gear, or running on a lower difficulty.

You can't include the Feats SF, GSF, ESF, LSF for a sorcerer as part of the DC calculation. For a wizard, certainly, using bonus feats. If you include these Spell Focus Feats, the character will have less feats for damage to take something else like Intensify, enlarge, heighten, Quicken, Wellspring of Power, Elemental Form Specialty, etc. Yeah, with those DC changes, the character can hit Demogorgon reaper monsters with those feats list, but then the damage suffers on r10.

Why melee and ranged don't have this problem to choose to hit or damage?!?

 

[Honkin]

You can't include the Feats SF, GSF, ESF, LSF for a sorcerer as part of the DC calculation. For a wizard, certainly, using bonus feats. If you include these Spell Focus Feats, the character will have less feats for damage to take something else like Intensify, enlarge, heighten, Quicken, Wellspring of Power, Elemental Form Specialty, etc. Yeah, with those DC changes, the character can hit Demogorgon reaper monsters with those feats list, but then the damage suffers on r10.

Why melee and ranged don't have this problem to choose to hit or damage?!?

I don't want to derail this thread any longer than I already have. Happy to post more detailed breakdowns for spell DCs and feat selection for first-lifers and completionist sorcs in the respective class forum to continue the discussion over there!

I do want to point out that this is a breakdown for a first life sorcerer with minimal gear (no raid, no rares). You will have to make tradeoffs in order to be effective in r10 endgame content - just like you would have to make tradeoffs as a first life melee. You can certainly argue with SSG about the feat tax, but the reality is that it's part of the playstyle.