How is Vanguard DPS these days?

[Sarlona Raiding]

I've been theory crafting a vanguard dps build myself, fully understanding the dps is probably lower-tier based on prior experience.

I think there has never been a better time to do it with Vecna forbidden knowledge gear being favorable to divines and Myth Drannor gear being especially friendly to metal shield using builds.

I believe ignition is the best weapon, but you might need a swap weapon without strikethrough if you will be dealing with vengeance reapers solo.

Gearing is going to be very dependent on whether you want high threat, no threat or you don't care because you won't be raiding on that character. My gear will definitely involve a 5 piece forbidden knowledge set, windlasher ferocity and some myth drannor items.

Warning, Legendary Large Shield of the Golden Age is a rare drop, about a 1 in 160 chance of it dropping for you. If that shield is a must for your build make sure you fully understand myth drannor rare drop rates first.

Shifter, T5 Knights of the Chalice with Vanguard Capstone is clearly going to be a high ceiling build with max action points.

PDK is an option with a heart, but the big appeal of going charisma-based doesn't really work for vanguard as shield still uses strength.

Of course going more tanky with points in knights of the chalice, sacred defender and vanguard is also an option. If you have alot ap you can make a dps-focused vanguard that operates very effectively as a casual raid tank.

 

[Purr]

Hi all
So GF has decided to join me in game and will be playing a Barb. My main at the moment is a Repeater Arti, so won't be much fun for her if I kill everything before she gets to hit it.
So trying to decide what else I want to play.
Saw people mentioning the shield available in the Dragon Box, and realized I haven't played Vanguard since back when it was broken and stunned with pretty much every hit.

Don't see dozens of Vanguard running around, so guessing it's not top tier DPS, but I'm wondering how it is.
Especially curious as I'll probably solo a bunch with the toon and I don't really want to spend twenty minutes in a quest a FB can blow through in eight.

I know it depends on a ton of different factors but as a (very rough) estimate would it be along the lines of
IF it takes me ten minutes to do a quest as THF FB would it be like twelve or thirteen minutes (so almost as close but a notable difference) or more like twenty minutes ( not even remotely in the same ballpark as a FB)

TLDR How does Vanguard DPS stand up mid 2024?

Okay, so honestly, running around with a buckler and hand axe as a bardbarian swashbuckler is toooooOoOooOoons of fun. Glammer the shield and a magmatic reaver and you are the shnizzle-wizzle.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

seeing how people build their vanguards makes me laugh beyond belief

 

[Dandonk]

seeing how people build their vanguards makes me laugh beyond belief

If you saw what I did when I tried one, you wouldn't laugh.

Cry in shame over me, perhaps, though.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

If you saw what I did when I tried one, you wouldn't laugh.

Cry in shame over me, perhaps, though.

monster manual bros never bully each other. we are in this together till the day the game dies

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

I think its time to play my vanguard again, post the build to the forums to show these fake vanguard players how its done

 

[Shear-buckler]

DL offers better cc anyways.

 

[Contessor]

My biggest HTR on shield attacks are the animation. It’s pitiful.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

seeing how people build their vanguards makes me laugh beyond belief

why don't you post a simple shell of your awesome build here.

 

[EinarMal]

There must be something in the water. I am also doing this! I am currently a level 8 Paladin, could still go 15/5, but the plan was pure.

I would love someone to tell me how terrible this is (or maybe not terrible idk) not built an S&B build in a very long time.

I did Dwarf currently, using DAxe level-ups in strength no TYWA

(Dwarf Paladin 20)
Str 18 (Level ups)
Dex 8
Con 18
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 14

Feats: (7)
1-THF
3-Power Attack
6-ITHF
9-IC Slashing
12-GTHF
15-Quicken
18-Improved Shield Bash
21-Overwhelming Critical
22-Doublestrike
24-Toughness
25-PTHF
27-Epic Toughness
28-Deific Warding
30-Scion of Arborea
30-Epic Fortitude
31-Shield Mastery Specialty
33-Epic Damage Reduction
34-Titans Blood

I took Titans blood until if ever I can farm the new shield from MD, using the FOM shield in mean time.

Enhancements (100)
Racial 20
KOTC 41
Vanguard 31
Vistani 8

Epic Destiny DC (83)
Fury or Divine Crusader 37
Unyielding Sentinel 24
Exalted Angel 22

I am going to compare Fury vs.. Divine Crusader as the main tree, Fury is probably better I guess.

I wanted to try out the exalted angel mantle with renewal, could eventually swap out if it is bad.

I was planning on Devils Infernal Dance + 3 Piece Winter + 5 Piece IOD gear, I have all of it including attuned bone DAxe for weapon. Once I farm MD maybe I can drop winter set if I can get the items and augments.

How bad is this plan?

 

[Defunct]

What AC/PRR/MRR can you hit? My guess would be you end up similarly tanky to a DPS bear, but not really at tank values, no? I still think the best way to fix VG is giving each core 5 prr/mrr.

Should get close to 600 AC & 500+ prr in town unbuffed, depends on ED/fili/past lives, and how much weighting there is to personal DPS.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

There must be something in the water. I am also doing this! I am currently a level 8 Paladin, could still go 15/5, but the plan was pure.

I would love someone to tell me how terrible this is (or maybe not terrible idk) not built an S&B build in a very long time.

I did Dwarf currently, using DAxe level-ups in strength no TYWA

(Dwarf Paladin 20)
Str 18 (Level ups)
Dex 8
Con 18
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 14

Feats: (7)
1-THF
3-Power Attack
6-ITHF
9-IC Slashing
12-GTHF
15-Quicken
18-Improved Shield Bash
21-Overwhelming Critical
22-Doublestrike
24-Toughness
25-PTHF
27-Epic Toughness
28-Deific Warding
30-Scion of Arborea
30-Epic Fortitude
31-Shield Mastery Specialty
33-Epic Damage Reduction
34-Titans Blood

I took Titans blood until if ever I can farm the new shield from MD, using the FOM shield in mean time.

Enhancements (100)
Racial 20
KOTC 41
Vanguard 31
Vistani 8

Epic Destiny DC (83)
Fury or Divine Crusader 37
Unyielding Sentinel 24
Exalted Angel 22

I am going to compare Fury vs.. Divine Crusader as the main tree, Fury is probably better I guess.

I wanted to try out the exalted angel mantle with renewal, could eventually swap out if it is bad.

I was planning on Devils Infernal Dance + 3 Piece Winter + 5 Piece IOD gear, I have all of it including attuned bone DAxe for weapon. Once I farm MD maybe I can drop winter set if I can get the items and augments.

How bad is this plan?

It's a really good setup - especially if you have alot of raid items. 5 piece morgrave is also solid for any divine - the main advantage is the wisdom goggles and gloves give you 20 stacking prr/mrr with the temperance bonuses.

If you are going for a really high AC 21 pts in macrotechnic could fit in well for some builds - it's best for bladeforged paladins that already have reconstruct, but there is alot to like in the tree if you are building for AC.

VIstani for the haste boost is a solid splash. I was thinking 38 pts in Knights of the Chalice for all of tier 5 and 41 points in vanguard for the 5% permanent attack speed and 10% stun, but perhaps haste boost is the way to go.

Dwarf is solid, although I've been told some of the shield bonus/melee power in the tree isn't working properly. I haven't tested it myself. Do you take the dragonmark for the radiant forcefield?

I was planning to go shifter for the extra attack/damage, armor class and rage + swap item + 1400 hp combo. Magic fang works on shields which is great for a vanguard, but getting bastard sword as a favored weapon absolutely requires divine crusader for shifter.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Should get close to 600 AC & 500+ prr in town unbuffed, depends on ED/fili/past lives, and how much weighting there is to personal DPS.

It depends if you are looking at potential vs. just grabbing the low hanging fruit.

With Myth Drannor gear I would say lowish hanging fruit is 15% artifact bonus, 15% exceptional bonus from macrotechnic, 10% combat expertise, 5% reaper armor bonus = 45% total multiplier.

Assuming no sacred defender at all - with low hanging fruit stuff only on a shifter:

Base: 10
Past Life: 75
Armor: 40 (higher if myth drannor)
Shield : 51 (40 + 2 scion of arborea + 9 magic fang)
Deflection: 11
Natural Amor: 14
Rough HIde: 14
Parrying: 6
Stone of Change: 2
Unyielding Sentinel Hardened: 15 (debatable if this is low hanging)
Unyielding Sentinel Shield Prowess: 25.5
Divine Crusader Weather Any Blow: 5
Macrotechnic Solid Footing: 6
Vanguard Enhancements up to T4: 7
Shifter Tree: 6
2 x 5 melee power beast mantle: 10
Perfect Shield Mastery: 10
Before Multipliers: 307.5

With Multipliers: 445.875

That is a workable ac that will provide significant mitigation when your ac is not being debuffed. Now add a buffing bard with T5 macrotechnic and cleric with holy aura and you are over 500. Profane natural armor is also possible, but I think it's really hard to fit in on a build focused on dps and defenses. This is with the common tower shield though and not the guardbreaking large golden age shield alot of people might want to use.

If you build more tanky and go t4 sacred defender focusing primarily on shield with more ac filigree you can easily get to 600+ with past lfies. At that point I think you crossed the line from tanky dps to vanguard tank.

So I would say with minor tradeoffs for low hanging fruit your in-town unbuffed as is more like 450. But that is a T5 knights of the chalice vanguard capstone build and no sacred defender at all. Your PRR and MRR is going to be solid as well. I mean enhancement bonuses, insightful artifact, profane, temperance (quality 20), angel skin spell, shield bonuses, epic destinies. There is alot of PRR and MRR there without dipping into sacred defender.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Should get close to 600 AC & 500+ prr in town unbuffed, depends on ED/fili/past lives, and how much weighting there is to personal DPS.

That's sounding much closer to tank numbers. If you can have nonzero DPS with that, sounds neat.

 

[Elfishski]

Vanguard DPS is waaaay off meta, but it's plenty good enough for R10 with friends and I enjoy vanguard builds a lot (as others noted your best bet is probably 31 points vanguard, 41 in your fighter/paladin DPS tree). Vanguard is also plenty decent while levelling.

If you're playing with someone who hasn't played DDO ever before then do them a favour and don't play anything like high skulls. Great time for you to try out something new to you also and just see if you like the playstyle, worry about optimizing it next time. Also rather than using your main, why not use an alt and be on a similar power level (while you can continue solo'ing on your main)?

 

[Defunct]

That's sounding much closer to tank numbers. If you can have nonzero DPS with that, sounds neat.

I mean, that's the challenge to fit reasonable DPS in xD

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

hold on, I just realized this thread is talking about pally vanguard. I take back everything I said, vanguard is trash