If you were to design a DDO raid, what mechanics would it have or not have?
- Thread starter Falkor
- Start date
Duneseeker
I'm not that Smart
I started a thread similar to this, but I wish I had worded it better. Im interested to hear what other players have to say as well.
Synalon
Choose another soldier
I don't know that this is a mechanic exactly, but I'd design it so it was a longer quest-type raid like VON, The Shroud, Twilight Forge and Tempest's Spine, with lots of enemies and puzzles to deal with rather than a long boss fight.
I would not make every enemy red-named.
I would not make every enemy red-named.
jotmon
Well-known member
Its not a good time to be a caster in current raid content left to picking off minor irritant trash and providing minimal if anything to the overall party contribution.
Casters/Raid content needs changes that lets casters be useful contributors.
More of a request for change to caster debuff spells impact usefulness on bosses.. caster spells are effectively useless in raids.
The trend over the last few years has been a directional shift to Massive HP Bosses requiring mass brute DPS to win the day.
Casters have minimal if any contribution in most raids. Spell CC and Debuffs are worthless on Reds/Bosses.
Caster dots have been nerfed into uselessness.
Higher distribution of all encompassing immunity red names and fewer mobs have options for CC or other caster useful spells.
Boss AOE environment damage, other damage blasts on party members decimate casters with naturally lower HP thresholds.
Problematic split raid party objectives, support and casters get screwed over in the random port/fall in trap/fight your way out zones leaving individual party members stuck trying to fight their way out dumping mana bars with ineffective spells on side room High HP red names..
Trash that respawns rapidly after being killed or CC'd making clearing trash pointless and casters subpar leaving alt tank to grab aggro and kites/turtles up.
Spells like time stop that require caster to be in spooning contact with Boss to successfully land.. shift 1 cm and it fails to land time stopping nothing.,
Lots of grievances with caster usefulness against raid bosses.
Casters/Raid content needs changes that lets casters be useful contributors.
More of a request for change to caster debuff spells impact usefulness on bosses.. caster spells are effectively useless in raids.
The trend over the last few years has been a directional shift to Massive HP Bosses requiring mass brute DPS to win the day.
Casters have minimal if any contribution in most raids. Spell CC and Debuffs are worthless on Reds/Bosses.
Caster dots have been nerfed into uselessness.
Higher distribution of all encompassing immunity red names and fewer mobs have options for CC or other caster useful spells.
Boss AOE environment damage, other damage blasts on party members decimate casters with naturally lower HP thresholds.
Problematic split raid party objectives, support and casters get screwed over in the random port/fall in trap/fight your way out zones leaving individual party members stuck trying to fight their way out dumping mana bars with ineffective spells on side room High HP red names..
Trash that respawns rapidly after being killed or CC'd making clearing trash pointless and casters subpar leaving alt tank to grab aggro and kites/turtles up.
Spells like time stop that require caster to be in spooning contact with Boss to successfully land.. shift 1 cm and it fails to land time stopping nothing.,
Lots of grievances with caster usefulness against raid bosses.
Krythan
Well-known member
Historically, I really enjoyed the format of The Shroud - mixing in challenges and coordination along with the classic "beat-down". I think players have come to expect the high-HP beat-down style of bossing that's seen in every MMO, but The Shroud did a great job mixing that aspect in parallel with mob management, DPS coordination, and puzzle tasks along the way.
eightspoons
Well-known member
A very tall, entirely vertical map containing huge amounts of moving, floating platforms (aka Newcomers) and an enormous number of ladders. The players start at the bottom, the chest is right at the top and doesn't appear until every player is present. A bonus chest if everyone makes it without laggi- I mean, missing a platform, and successfully climbing every ladder. Random sideways wind-jets during the ascent.
No boss, no enemies, no traps.
I can't think of anything more challenging, or more class agnostic.
No boss, no enemies, no traps.
I can't think of anything more challenging, or more class agnostic.
Maetrim of Cannith
DDOBuilder Creator
Mechanics which split the party into smaller groups like the two different paths in Baba, which allows each group to work as a unit. This would allow encounters on split routes to be the right level of difficulty rather than having a single encounter that has to stand up to a full group and not die in 0 seconds. Splits could make individual sub-groups down to 2-4 members.
OOB, basically. Continous spawning trash as party moves through the area. Trash should be very high dps or have dangerous CC but instakillable or holdable. Maybe a few hard targets to pressure the dps also, but not too many. Could have puzzles or similar during boss encounters to reduce spawns. Trash also needs to continue spawning until purple alert if not managed.
Shrining or puzzling should require some of the party to break off and defend the others.
Couple of bosses along the way.
No anti-melee mechanics...
Shrining or puzzling should require some of the party to break off and defend the others.
Couple of bosses along the way.
No anti-melee mechanics...
axel15810
DDO YouTuber, Streamer and Podcaster
As above said, something like the shroud is a great template for a raid. The best raids have all this in multiple distinct phases -
1) DPS phase/elements
2) A puzzle phase/elements - something that the whole group can engage in. A small puzzle for each person (ex. shroud, too hot to handle, RTSO) is far better design than 1 single puzzle that realistically only 1-2 people can do while everyone else stands around with nothing meaningful to do (ex. Deathwyrm, Reaver's Fate, Titan)
3) Group coordination phase/elements - Can be many things but something that requires the group to communicate, organize and work together in some meaningful way that can't just be solved by DPS (ex: Strahd card phase, shroud phase 2, PN laser/unsolving puzzles)
4) Boss fight
Every raid doesn't have to have #2 and #3 necessarily, but if it's a full priced expansion that only has 1 raid it should have all 4 of these things. But if an expansion has 2 raids for example, one can be a DPS focused raid and the other can be a more coordination/puzzle focused. If adventure pack or f2p raid, less elements/smaller scope is fine and understandable.
My main concern is there's a trend in newer recent raid releases where the scope is being cut back as compared to older raids, and the raids tend to only have 1, maybe 2 of these 4 things and as a result be too small in scope. More raids like Skeletons, Strahd and Shroud in expansions and less raids like Relentless unless it's going to supplemented by a 2nd raid in that same expansion, in which case a small scope simple raid may be fine.
Edit: Oh yeah I forgot map design/story, that's really important too. The raid should IMO be the climax and resolution of that expansion/adventure pack's storyline. The map/setting should be atleast somewhat distinct. So preferably some unique art assets and/or some kind of creativity or complexity into the map design that goes beyond a normal quest. It shouldn't just be generic rooms/hallways...looking at you Threats Old and New, and I think each raid should have it's own unique music track to give it that epic and special feel.
1) DPS phase/elements
2) A puzzle phase/elements - something that the whole group can engage in. A small puzzle for each person (ex. shroud, too hot to handle, RTSO) is far better design than 1 single puzzle that realistically only 1-2 people can do while everyone else stands around with nothing meaningful to do (ex. Deathwyrm, Reaver's Fate, Titan)
3) Group coordination phase/elements - Can be many things but something that requires the group to communicate, organize and work together in some meaningful way that can't just be solved by DPS (ex: Strahd card phase, shroud phase 2, PN laser/unsolving puzzles)
4) Boss fight
Every raid doesn't have to have #2 and #3 necessarily, but if it's a full priced expansion that only has 1 raid it should have all 4 of these things. But if an expansion has 2 raids for example, one can be a DPS focused raid and the other can be a more coordination/puzzle focused. If adventure pack or f2p raid, less elements/smaller scope is fine and understandable.
My main concern is there's a trend in newer recent raid releases where the scope is being cut back as compared to older raids, and the raids tend to only have 1, maybe 2 of these 4 things and as a result be too small in scope. More raids like Skeletons, Strahd and Shroud in expansions and less raids like Relentless unless it's going to supplemented by a 2nd raid in that same expansion, in which case a small scope simple raid may be fine.
Edit: Oh yeah I forgot map design/story, that's really important too. The raid should IMO be the climax and resolution of that expansion/adventure pack's storyline. The map/setting should be atleast somewhat distinct. So preferably some unique art assets and/or some kind of creativity or complexity into the map design that goes beyond a normal quest. It shouldn't just be generic rooms/hallways...looking at you Threats Old and New, and I think each raid should have it's own unique music track to give it that epic and special feel.
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justin credible
Well-known member
I want a raid where the casters have to kite mobs around while healing themselves and reconning the wf barbarian tank, like in the old days
Multiple things needing tanking at once, including need for dedicated healers on the tanks, things that need to be ranged like pillar tops in lob, traps that need disabling, high damage high hp red names that end up needing to be kited like in TOD, the need to split into smaller groups (chosen by the players, not random), lastly and most importantly, large spawns of non named but problematic trash that needs to be effectively crowd controlled and/or instakilled by casters.
I'd also consider a raid boss that was more susceptible to spell damage and had very high prr that couldn't be dramatically lessened.
Really just mechanics that give roles for most playstyles.
I'd also consider a raid boss that was more susceptible to spell damage and had very high prr that couldn't be dramatically lessened.
Really just mechanics that give roles for most playstyles.
Krythan
Well-known member
Stealer of Souls feels like a raid. It would have (still could be) a fantastic 12-man raid with some minor adjustments.
kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
I would definatelly not include mechanics like the ones bosses have in legendary chrono where if you have a dot on the boss he kills you with damage return. That's just an example of an anti-human mechanic.
Gruben
Darkest Apostate
would be cool to have a PN x Baba type of vibe where you're starting in a large room with pillars and machines along the edges of the main room with four puzzles in each corner that need to be completed (memory puzzle, light button puzzle, mirror laser puzzle, moveable tile puzzle). In my raid each puzzle completion would spawn an elemental mini boss that is highly resistant to damage unless a certain element was dealt to it( fire ele has DR unless cold dmg, water ele lighting, earth ele fire dmg, air elemental acid etc) once the puzzles and mini bosses are dealt with a large door opens to a new smaller room with four quadrants. there will be a screen behind a floating boss in the smaller room on a balcony with colors to inform the party which quadrant's traps will be active after a period. This will be a TOEE inspired fight where four mini bosses will have to be slain once they are pulled out their spawning quadrant. same DR funny business to enable caster benefits. once these bosses are defeated the dude on the balcony flees to his lair that opens for the raid party. once you track down the mastermind of the raid zone you have the typically dps race damage while the main boss goes through phases where he attacks with different elements. there will be four pillars of power each to be taken down as the boss goes through his phases. the raid boss will attack with four elements to begin and as his power sources are destroyed their ability to use those elements is removed.
Glargfest
Well-known member
Not a mechanic per se, but more use of terrain or obstacles in the big boss fights. I can only think of VoN 6 where you hide behind the stalagmites to about Velah’s breath. Could make an argument for Abbot with inferno and the ice platform I guess, but it’s not all that cool looking. Most raids are just flat, arena style fights with not much going on environmentally.
Maybe something akin to lair actions could be implemented too.
Maybe something akin to lair actions could be implemented too.
Arcanaverse
Solver of Secrets
I envision a siege. Party along with a mook army raiding a castle of sorts. NPC or PC can man battlefield armaments to help take down the wall. As in, like.. mobs will flank the attacking forces on occasion so need to clear em out or take over if the npc(s) fall. Ideally there'd be multiple ways in. Each with their own challenges. breaking the wall, scaling the wall or like.. through a sewer path or something a person or two can go through to open the gate for the rest of the party.
Party would then gather to breach the wall. big fights.. till they make their way to the throne room for a final boss fight.
In summary.. a multiple paths raid to lead to the same end. Each different path would kinda cater to a different style of raid party.
solo/extreme short man = the sneaky open the gate path.
casual = scale the wall.
try hard = breaking the wall.
Probably get an additional chest for based on the difficulty of the path completed.
Party would then gather to breach the wall. big fights.. till they make their way to the throne room for a final boss fight.
In summary.. a multiple paths raid to lead to the same end. Each different path would kinda cater to a different style of raid party.
solo/extreme short man = the sneaky open the gate path.
casual = scale the wall.
try hard = breaking the wall.
Probably get an additional chest for based on the difficulty of the path completed.
PaleFox
Well-known member
I want to see a bullet heaven 12 man raid, with plenty of fun and unexpected upgrades (like those orbs in House of Pain, but these last until end of quest) one person picks up an upgrade and the whole group benefits.
Being forced to divide into two or three tactical mudballs to free up a path and an upgrade per mudball and continue.
No end ever, just higher tier mobs.
Terrain potentially an enemy as well where we have to navigate across land, water, lava, acid pools, electic clouds, heavy or light gravity, etc.
No falling into chasms as random generation of that could potentially be quest breaking.
Falling off a cliff could be deadly as 3D, though who doesn't have FF.
If the Last one standing dies that is where the chest spawns, auto raise for the whole group and clear the instance of spawns.
Ofcourse if a tier is passed a chest spawns as well, but those have random loot only.
Other elements I'd like to see are pressure plate type of puzzles where it actually takes more then one person to solve them.
And a good story, though without the endless chattering hold up.
Being forced to divide into two or three tactical mudballs to free up a path and an upgrade per mudball and continue.
No end ever, just higher tier mobs.
Terrain potentially an enemy as well where we have to navigate across land, water, lava, acid pools, electic clouds, heavy or light gravity, etc.
No falling into chasms as random generation of that could potentially be quest breaking.
Falling off a cliff could be deadly as 3D, though who doesn't have FF.
If the Last one standing dies that is where the chest spawns, auto raise for the whole group and clear the instance of spawns.
Ofcourse if a tier is passed a chest spawns as well, but those have random loot only.
Other elements I'd like to see are pressure plate type of puzzles where it actually takes more then one person to solve them.
And a good story, though without the endless chattering hold up.