Illithid Invasion - Constructive Feedback

[Ahpuch]

All this is good advice, except when considering low level toons.

...

The question that I have is - was the event designed with low level toons in mind?

I think it was. Its just that these Champs were never on Lamannia (since it was a suprise part of the event) so they did not get adequate feedback on their power level. At least I assume that they are powered as they are due to a feedback problem. If they are intentionally this hard then that is a nasty miscalculation by SSG.

 

[CBDunk]

I think it was. Its just that these Champs were never on Lamannia (since it was a suprise part of the event) so they did not get adequate feedback on their power level. At least I assume that they are powered as they are due to a feedback problem. If they are intentionally this hard then that is a nasty miscalculation by SSG.

They were on Lamannia in the four 'extreme challenge' dungeons... but those were supposed to be very hard.

 

[Bogrot]

All vorpal weapons are luck to proc regardless of being low level or high level.
Trip and stunning blow are available at level 1
Magic Missile is a stable force spell and is level 1.
Points 1, 2, and 6 are not ability/level dependant.

I said in that very post that these are not guaranteed victory moves, they are methods to mitigate their toughness.

At higher levels a character can modify crit proc ranges better than lower level characters and so they are likely to be more successful; so again lower level characters lose out. Magic missile may be a lvl 1 force spell but is it a viable champ killer ( 5 magic missiles do, on average, 22.5 damage before Maximise and Empower)? And as I mentioned in my reply, trips and stunning blow mean that you have to get up close and personal and a friend who plays druids a lot got her tail handed to her very quickly when going in for a trip attack.

Again I ask (the devs), were low level characters considered when designing the event and placing the champs?

 

[vryxnr]

At higher levels a character can modify crit proc ranges better than lower level characters and so they are likely to be more successful; so again lower level characters lose out. Magic missile may be a lvl 1 force spell but is it a viable champ killer ( 5 magic missiles do, on average, 22.5 damage before Maximise and Empower)? And as I mentioned in my reply, trips and stunning blow mean that you have to get up close and personal and a friend who plays druids a lot got her tail handed to her very quickly when going in for a trip attack.

Again I ask (the devs), were low level characters considered when designing the event and placing the champs?

Vorpal still only procs on what is called a vorpal hit (which is a natural 20, not on crit). There is a high level ability that increases "vorpal" to 19+, but it's still not based on crits, nor does it mean vorpal can't proc without it.

Whether you use those low level abilities or not is up to you, but they DO exist at those levels, and using them DOES make the thralls easier.
edit: of course, not being familiar with someone one never usually uses is not easy either, and just slapping it on with no investment doesn't mean it's going to always work either, but those options exist, and investing into them can make them work more regularly.

I'm not a dev, so I cannot answer your question to the devs.

 

[Ahpuch]

They were on Lamannia in the four 'extreme challenge' dungeons... but those were supposed to be very hard.

Yeah. There was no feedback on their presence in regular quests which i what I was getting at. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Praun]

The question that I have is - was the event designed with low level toons in mind?

No, it was not.

This event was designed for players that have all the good gear. Call them what you want; end-gamers, uber-grinders, raid-specialists .. .etc.

Many players DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL RAID GEAR and have no desire to obtain it. We just want to log in and play the game we've played for YEARS and not be tripped up by SSG's little games.

Any new, freshly made, character (with no special hand-me-down gear) will not fare well in H or E quests during this event. No amount of workarounds will help anyone below lvl 15 or 20 with no special gear.

Face it, this event wasn't designed for players who are new or don't care to run Reaper quests.

 

[healertank]

All vorpal weapons are luck to proc regardless of being low level or high level.
Trip and stunning blow are available at level 1
Magic Missile is a stable force spell and is level 1.
Points 1, 2, and 6 are not ability/level dependant.

I said in that very post that these are not guaranteed victory moves, they are methods to mitigate their toughness.

No player should have to majorly alter playstyle when running stuff they normally can do without any problem. It feels like I'm running r8+ when it's just r1. They are not at all balanced for heroic levels. When you are used to never dying and then suddenly struggle in quests you start scratching your head.

The simple fact is it's just stupid to expect players have to "use tactics" like your running a high level reaper quests for a simple champion. An event shouldn't make a huge number of your players pissed off or upset because of the way it was implemented and they can't even avoid it or run quests on hard or elite because they can't deal with the champions. 99.9% of the event is just flavor too.

I can live with the event knowing it is over very soon, though I find myself logging off in frustration often because I hate spending 4 times the normal time doing quests just because thralls have steroids.

IT seemed fun at first searching for them until you realize it's a luck game... luck that you will be in the right level range and run the correct quest before it is exhausted. Good luck at that without using forums to find out where they are at. Even fighting them lost it's fun when it became a chore to unlock especially with things like the Rainbow in the dark. Whoever made that choice is either ignorant because they didn't know, or plain mean and likes trolling the players that pay the salary. I am trying to restrain from saying how I really feel about the dev(s) that made that choice.

Then there is no reward for this event unless you count quests that are really for just end game toons. At least we don't have to do that again", nothing to earn or save up for in other events, not even a cosmetic. Seems pointless to use the cards on low level gear that you level past so fast anyway and when you don't need the small boost it would give even so why spend hours and hours farming it out other than for power creep on gear sets at lvl cap. Even the way you apply the cards is bad and would have been even worse if dev's went through with the original plans they had for it. It's like no one at SSG understand what makes players happy or upset, or they just don't even care. Why have feedback when chances are they don't give an F and won't respond or admit they made mistake or could have done things better. As a very long time player from the release of the game that has given many thousands of dollars for this game and has a real diehard love of it... this has been one of the worst things they have done. It makes me feel sick inside.

A response from devs would go a long way... even if to acknowledge a lot of players are unhappy and that they are taking feedback seriously. I would love to see the reasoning behind a lot of the choices made. Was it just rushed out and kind of an afterthought? Like "hey we are giving you 4 free quests" but we figured you gotta earn them and we made it hard and unrewarding because its all just a joke anyway meant for a little fun for max level characters.

 

[Daemos]

OK, I will add my 2 DDO points. I know it is page 8 of this post, so no one cares (not that most will no matter where it is posted), but here it goes:

My family just didn't care...

I came back 6 months ago after leaving in 2011. I signed up for VIP as my entire family wanted to get together online and play together. VIP allowed us to play at some level of difficulty that was not "toddler". We were a bit different 12 years ago (my kids were 10 and 12), but now we wanted to relive our fun from back in the day.

First few months were great. BUT..., although we still love the Cove (I know....I know...) and enjoyed doing all of Revels (improvement from the past), there was just no connection for us in this to the actual quest. We played, we saw some Thralls, we killed them, and...that was it...

No real connection to the actual event. I understand it opened some opportunities for others, but no one in my family really understood that or even cared. It was just another champion to kill (champion was a new thing for us at least). And trying to scavenge multiple quests over several hours was just not possible for us. I know you can't please everyone, but my family just didn't WANT TO find the time for this. After all, nothing changed, nothing won (for them), nothing lost...

I do hope some of the end game people have fun with this, but we won't see that for likely months, or even if ever for my kids who are now busy with life. I guess the wish would have been that it would have felt like we really were doing something worthwhile, and that everyone would remember it fondly. None of us have had that reaction. Perhaps we are selfish in our opinion, but it is ours. For instance, my daughter and son had no idea anything was going on other that "the sky is purple.

But I am glad that the game is at least still here after all these years.

 

[vryxnr]

Those are not "high reaper tactics"... they are pretty basic tactics and are doable by anyone. It's not hard to implement.

Raid gear is not required either. In order to help my server fight back the illithid invasion I made an iconic and only leveled them up to 11 in order to be able to run the Pit. First lifer, a few random pieces of named ravenloft items that do not match for any set bonuses and don't really fit the build, 1 random-gen item, and 5 completely empty gear slots. I've never considered myself an uber high reaper player. Low-mid maybe sure, but no where near the best of the best people are claiming this event is only for... and I'm getting to it and killing it and the thralls along the way.

IMO players should have to adapt to different things happening during an event if they want to play during an event. Players can also choose to not play during an event if they are completely unwilling to make any concessions at all. It makes me sad that some would rather not play than experience things that are different, but that is your right. I AGREE that a way to opt out of events would be a better solution to keep more people happy at once, but until such is implemented, I will offer assistance and advice for how to work with the event instead of against it.

and I do find it offensive being called "elitist" or any of the other names people are coming up with to disparage others who are willing to adapt and deal with these things and continue to play the game.

 

[Praun]

IMO players should have to adapt to different things happening during an event if they want to play during an event. Players can also choose to not play during an event if they are completely unwilling to make any concessions at all.

... so ... play in the event or GTFO?

That's how you retain a player base... /s

 

[vryxnr]

... so ... play in the event or GTFO?

That's how you retain a player base... /s

and just after that I also said this: "I AGREE that a way to opt out of events would be a better solution to keep more people happy at once..."

But you know what I'm not going to do? insult and attack others for adapting and playing, or for trying to help others adapt and play.

 

[healertank]

Those are not "high reaper tactics"... they are pretty basic tactics and are doable by anyone. It's not hard to implement.

Raid gear is not required either. In order to help my server fight back the illithid invasion I made an iconic and only leveled them up to 11 in order to be able to run the Pit. First lifer, a few random pieces of named ravenloft items that do not match for any set bonuses and don't really fit the build, 1 random-gen item, and 5 completely empty gear slots. I've never considered myself an uber high reaper player. Low-mid maybe sure, but no where near the best of the best people are claiming this event is only for... and I'm getting to it and killing it and the thralls along the way.

IMO players should have to adapt to different things happening during an event if they want to play during an event. Players can also choose to not play during an event if they are completely unwilling to make any concessions at all. It makes me sad that some would rather not play than experience things that are different, but that is your right. I AGREE that a way to opt out of events would be a better solution to keep more people happy at once, but until such is implemented, I will offer assistance and advice for how to work with the event instead of against it.

and I do find it offensive being called "elitist" or any of the other names people are coming up with to disparage others who are willing to adapt and deal with these things and continue to play the game.

I managed to convince a friend to come back to the game telling him about the event before it started. He finally tried on day 3 and after about 2 hours told me "sorry this is just not fun, I can't even finish a quest on hard with these thralls." He didn't want to be told "how he sucked and that he just needed to adjust tactics." Because that is what you are saying... "if you aren't good enough then you don't have to play." If you think making people not wanting to play helps a game I have no idea what to tell you, enjoy the game when it dies with that type of attitude.

I'd rather call out SSG for not even testing the thralls out and doing such a poor job of implementing this event. Players need to stop acting like nothing is wrong "just ignore the man behind the curtain." I get it though... your a thrall of the devs and don't even know it.

The event luckily will be over soon and we can all get back to normal. It might take 2 years to get my friend to try again. My other friends I was trying to get back to the game heard about his experience and were like... "nahh hard pass."

 

[healertank]

This event has sparked a lot of angry discussion. I also allowed my disappointment to cloud my perspective resulting in some forum rage. My apologizes if anything I said offended anyone. It was never my intention. This is not a post to continue that mindset.

The discussion for the event ranges from worst to best event ever.

Has 1 person really said this is the best event ever?!?!?!? Must be a dev account.

 

[Lotoc]

No, it was not.

This event was designed for players that have all the good gear. Call them what you want; end-gamers, uber-grinders, raid-specialists .. .etc.

Many players DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL RAID GEAR and have no desire to obtain it. We just want to log in and play the game we've played for YEARS and not be tripped up by SSG's little games.

Any new, freshly made, character (with no special hand-me-down gear) will not fare well in H or E quests during this event. No amount of workarounds will help anyone below lvl 15 or 20 with no special gear.

Face it, this event wasn't designed for players who are new or don't care to run Reaper quests.

I personally did many of the illithids with a first life warlock, just selecting an iconic then selecting enough levels to match whichever quests needed farming, said warlock was often naked as I was too lazy to hunt down gear on my alts.
However, a large part of this is warlock is capable of force damage so isn't as negatively impacted by the defensive mechanics of thralls.
Through the event I have avoided playing or leveling my preferred builds (besides my main at cap) because thralls are such a hinderance to melee dps.

 

[vryxnr]

... He didn't want to be told "how he sucked and that he just needed to adjust tactics." ...

Why do you have to say he sucks? Why can't you say that the situation sucks, but if you want, here are some ways to make the situation suck less?

I'd rather call out SSG for not even testing the thralls out and doing such a poor job of implementing this event. Players need to stop acting like nothing is wrong "just ignore the man behind the curtain." I get it though... your a thrall of the devs and don't even know it.

I've repeatedly said that I agree that this event was not implemented well and that I agree there should be a way to opt out as you and others want. But the reality is that right now there isn't a way to do that without changing difficulties (and apparently even thinking about that is a terrible sin), so I also offer ways that one can continue to play with the event. I don't make the rules, but I do try to follow them, even when they change. Some people here may not believe this, but I actually support many of the complaints about the event, and I support peoples rights to complain about it (devs can't know what they did wrong if it's not pointed out)... but when those complaints turn hyperbolic, or turn into attacks on other players, turning into us vs them, or become riddled with inaccurate claims... that has been when I stepped in.

It might take 2 years to get my friend to try again. My other friends I was trying to get back to the game heard about his experience and were like... "nahh hard pass."

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[tsotate]

Champion Lore: I felt that this was really lacking. I kept seeing 'psionic thrall' over things that... shouldn't be able to be dominated. Iron Golems, Kopru (when the final Kopru boss was unaffected and would have fixed the issue), Vermin, etc.

My favorite so far was the psionic thrall boulder in Undermine.

 

[Lacci]

My favorite so far was the psionic thrall boulder in Undermine.

Lol, yeah, I saw a psionic thrall rock in "Lines of Supply" as well

 

[Dragavon]

My two points on this event.

1: unless you where very lucky, or just sitting waiting and watching the forums when a new location was discovered you had little chance to get in and be part of it. For me I was either busy somewhere else in game or not able to play at all, or had notcharacters in level range. When I had a chance to play the quest the ilithid was killed by everyone else. So I never got to participate, and I guess that is how it was for a majority of the players. This is not good. I never even got to see one.

2: The psionic thralls where way too powerful compared to normal enemies in quests, and many players struggled to complete quests when they where unlucky with the thralls. This is just wrong. People should be able to play and level normally if they want that.

All in all this was very unsatisfying for me. Not a good event.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Has 1 person really said this is the best event ever?!?!?!? Must be a dev account.

I am not a developer, but this is definitely the best gaming event I have participated in over the past 8-10 years.

 

[Ahpuch]

I am not a developer, but this is definitely the best gaming event I have participated in over the past 8-10 years.

I agree. It is the best event in recent (is 8 to 10 years recent?) DDO history. However, I do understand that this event is not for everyone. It really was for players who like scavenger hunts and searching. This is only a small subset of the player base but it is the only event I can recall that really targetted that type of play. I also was not too impacted by the jumped up champions and not put off by the few extra deaths they caused (death is my buddy and soulstone is my fashion of choice ).