Improved Precise Shot some questions

[Jodro]

Hello everyone,

I'm trying a sneaky great crossbow build (first shot does a ton of damage or one shot enemy, basically like a sniper) and I have questions about Improved Precise Shot. It says "With Improved Precise Shot, your ranged attacks pass through and potentially damage all foes in the projectile's path. Your ranged damage is reduced by 20%".

The first keyword i see here is "potentially", it does mean a chance to hit? And if so how much?

Do enemies that are on the bolts path and get the damage notice you, or they just lose some hp without flinching?

And most importantly, does that "damage" include all the extra bonuses and their effects? Sneak attack, imbues, lacerating shots ect.
How it works with ranged attacks like leg shot or epic strike? I guess the effect will apply to your target, but what about the +[W] or crit side effects?
What about epic feat first blood? Does the extra damage to your target or the first enemy that makes contact?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Speed]

There is no change in chance to hit.
"Potentially" just means if there are more targets on path in that proper moment when you are making your shot, so this requires good timing to get benefit.

Enemies scatter around when playing in groups.
You also waste your dps time in waiting for proper composition (unless you just count on luck) and your shot is affected by possible server lags.

It is passive line aoe, so targets are affected by all effects, but I am not sure if 20% reduction is just for base damage (percent damage in various attacks usually refers only to it).
Enemies will react the same as if any of them would be hit normally with single attack.

 

[Dragavon]

All enemies in a line in front of or behind your target will be hit, subject to an attack roll for each enemy. Character height is important here, a small character will see a better effect from IPS than a large character. IPS is better for gnomes, halflings and dwarves, and noticeably worse for warforged and half-orcs.

It is my impression that the hit box becomes wider the further away from you the target is. I think I see that I hit more enemies if I select an enemy at the back of the line than if I select a target in front. Just anecdotal evidence for this ofc ?

And it is important to switch to archers focus when only the boss is left

 

[Jodro]

It is passive line aoe, so targets are affected by all effects, but I am not sure if 20% reduction is just for base damage (percent damage in various attacks usually refers only to it).

So you are saying that all enemies take the damage as if they were in targets position, including all sneak attack dices, imbues and passives, plus any effects and damage in case of ranged attack?

All enemies in a line in front of or behind your target will be hit, subject to an attack roll for each enemy. Character height is important here, a small character will see a better effect from IPS than a large character. IPS is better for gnomes, halflings and dwarves, and noticeably worse for warforged and half-orcs.

I use a drow to make it f2p friendly, but good to know and very interesting

 

[Speed]

So you are saying that all enemies take the damage as if they were in targets position, including all sneak attack dices, imbues and passives, plus any effects and damage in case of ranged attack?

Yes, it will even affect various special attacks, but it is ranged offensive stance, so will not work with Archer Focus.

It is my impression that the hit box becomes wider the further away from you the target is. I think I see that I hit more enemies if I select an enemy at the back of the line than if I select a target in front. Just anecdotal evidence for this ofc ?

Yes, it has better results when hard selecting enemy on back instead of closest (right mouse button or "next target" key).

 

[Pesh]

It is my impression that the hit box becomes wider the further away from you the target is. I think I see that I hit more enemies if I select an enemy at the back of the line than if I select a target in front. Just anecdotal evidence for this ofc ?

If targeting is used then the hitscan is through the centre of the selected mob, so closer mobs can drastically alter the course of the arrow, giving the effect you describe.

Without targeting the hitscan is exactly where you are aiming and will hit any hitbox it intersects with, provided the server actually agrees with your client about the position of the mobs

 

[saekee]

wanna explain your sneak strategy?

 

[Jodro]

wanna explain your sneak strategy?

First off, the whole build idea was f2p with great crossbow, it's very slow but mechanic tree greatly promotes it and fits the sneak vibe. I would call it the sniper build (hidden with great damage), but that's most likely already trademarked.

The strategy is sneak in a room, shoot enemy, hoping to one-shot him and all the rest on the bolt path or at least heavy damage them, kill enemies that notice me, sneak, move to next enemy bunch. If they get too close I leg shot them, throw goo flask (tanglefoot) and/or time bomb, take distance, sneak and resume attack.
On epics I decided on shadowdancer tree, so same gameplay same as stated, but with an epic attack, that if it effects everyone that my bolts go through is pretty awesome and some extra damage and perks.

Obviously its a strategy that gets full potential at a party, but I'll do my best when solo.

I'm very concerned about un-sneakable opponents, but sneak is half the build, so meh.

You have any other suggestions?

 

[saekee]

yes—I would do an assassin (stealth is my main playstyle) but as an xbow INT-based mechanic, look into Improved traps (tier 2 mechanic tree) and set web or glitterdust traps. The DC will be your Disable device skill upon setting them. Don’t forget noisemakers and flaming sphere scrolls.

Stealth uses dex not INT so you may need ‘nimble skills’ boosting gear to get your sneak reasonably high. Ghostly, camouflaged clickies, all these things go far.

Plan to have some means of having a temporary high bluff skill too to pull reapers or some other mobs away from a group. Same idea: Bluff (competence) + insightful bluff plus exceptional charisma skills bonuses (like from Terasa’s sight from Sora Kell set)

In parties no one has the time for this; just pew pew away as they charge in.

 

[Mindos]

web or glitterdust traps. The DC will be your Disable device skill upon setting them.

Does it keep the Disable device skill that you had when you set them or does it swap if you change your gear after? Meaning, I have Disable Device of 50, I set the trap, its DC is 50. I then swap my gear, and my Disable Device goes down to 40. Does the trap I already set stay at 50, or does it change to 40?

 

[saekee]

Does it keep the Disable device skill that you had when you set them or does it swap if you change your gear after? Meaning, I have Disable Device of 50, I set the trap, its DC is 50. I then swap my gear, and my Disable Device goes down to 40. Does the trap I already set stay at 50, or does it change to 40?

it keeps the one you set it at

 

[Archest]

would use assin tree for ranged sneak attack die but its got a few melee slas that wont help the great crossbow.
drow rogue ftp
confirm critical as well.

 

[Jodro]

yes—I would do an assassin (stealth is my main playstyle) but as an xbow INT-based mechanic, look into Improved traps (tier 2 mechanic tree) and set web or glitterdust traps. The DC will be your Disable device skill upon setting them. Don’t forget noisemakers and flaming sphere scrolls.

Stealth uses dex not INT so you may need ‘nimble skills’ boosting gear to get your sneak reasonably high. Ghostly, camouflaged clickies, all these things go far.

Well because I'm trying f2p build, which means no harper, I have to try have both int and dex high at the same time, which will probably lead to booth being ok-ish. After all you need 21 dex for improved sneak attack.

But you are completely right, I totally forgot about trapmaking during building. Haven't researched traps at all, but I've heard that you can basically make bombs with same effect as low level magic spells. That's awesome, I'll make a grease bomb to trip them and then set it ablaze.

would use assin tree for ranged sneak attack die but its got a few melee slas that wont help the great crossbow.
drow rogue ftp
confirm critical as well.

That's basically what I've done, without the confirm crit

Spoiler: F2P Sniper enhancements

Mechanic - Points spent: 53
Core1 Arbalester
Tier1 Sharpshooter I
Tier1 Lacerating Shots - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Mechanics - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Awareness - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Improved Traps - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Sharpshooter II
Core2 Tanglefoot
Tier2 Wand and Scroll Mastery - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Skill Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Sharpshooter III
Core3 Targeting Sights
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Tier3 Use Magical Device - 3 Ranks
Core4 Improved Detection
Tier4 Sharpshooter IV
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Intelligence
Tier4 Leg Shot
Tier5 Rapid Fire - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Sharpshooter V
Tier5 Mechanical Reloader
Tier5 Time Bomb - 3 Ranks
Core5 Expert Builder
Tier5 Sniper
Core6 Hip Flask
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assassin - Points spent: 27
Core1 Knife in the Darkness
Tier1 Venomed Blades - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Sneak Attack Training I
Tier1 Stealthy - 3 Ranks
Core2 Dagger in the Back
Tier2 Toxin Affinity - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Sneak Attack Training II
Tier3 Sneak Attack Training III
Core3 Assassin's Trick
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Intelligence
Tier4 Sneak Attack Training IV
Tier4 Killer - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Dexterity

Thanks all of you for the replies and for all the extra suggestions beside the main question

 

[saekee]

hi, no not the grease bombs. You need to make the traps I mentioned at the trapsmith workstation in House Cannith near the Lava Caves challenges. Web and glitterdust.

You may need parts (magical trap parts). If you lack them, post an LFM at all level ranges asking kindly for them. Vets have a ton.

 

[Speed]

Regardless of effectiveness, I liked concept of being able to throw grenades, but the same thing turned me off like in case of scrolls, item switching each time instead of just auto use.
Too bad there is no individual option like for metamagics, but allowing single instant use and then auto switch to equipped weapons just like using potions, traps, spells or special abilities like "glue" grenade in mechanic tree.

 

[Jodro]

hi, no not the grease bombs. You need to make the traps I mentioned at the trapsmith workstation in House Cannith near the Lava Caves challenges. Web and glitterdust.

Why not? They seem useful and fun (assuming that as bombs the dc will scale), sure it means I'll have to keep in mind of using 4 grenades instead of 2, but thats ok

Regardless of effectiveness, I liked concept of being able to throw grenades, but the same thing turned me off like in case of scrolls, item switching each time instead of just auto use.
Too bad there is no individual option like for metamagics, but allowing single instant use and then auto switch to equipped weapons just like using potions, traps, spells or special abilities like "glue" grenade in mechanic tree.

Ugh, i didn't thought about that, this will be annoying af

EDIT: Grease spell at ddo wiki have some interesting pros and cons
Cons:
1)Very ineffective beyond the first few levels due to its non-scaling DC.
2)Can cause your own party members to slip over.
3)Can cause your own party members to take fire damage.
Pros:
1)At levels 1-3, it's somewhat useful for knocking enemy casters in the distance, as they tend to have very poor reflex saves anyway, so there's a reasonable chance of knocking them down, at least for a few seconds.
2)Can cause your own party members to slip over.
3)Is subtle unlike Sleet Storm (i.e. enemies will not become hostile).

 

[Speed]

Traps (or "glue" grenades in mechanic tree that is technically special ability) are as easy to use as potions or spells, but crafted grenades are acting like scrolls, so they replace weapon in your main hand (first they switch, then you can throw, and later you have to re-equip your weapon), which is not comfortable usage if you ask me - did I miss something in options?
Grease sounds fun when playing ranged solo, otherwise party might be annoyed (especially melee).

 

[Archest]

Feats
Shot on the Run
Rapid Reload
Power Critical
Improved Critical

ranged power for scaling and critical for double damage for your one shot sneak attacks? some of these have other feats and ability score prerequisites

Thunderstone: Cooldown: 12 seconds. Spell Resistance: NoAlchemical Trap Attack: Throws an alchemical charge at your enemy. Deals 4d6/6d6/8d6 sonic damage and dazes in an area. Fort DC (12/14/16 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier) Negates daze. The damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.Note: The daze does not work correctly, targets hit by the daze effect can still move and attack, yet are vulnerable to sneak attacks.)Bug: Thunderstone actually blinds targets and damage does not scale with RP.

Daze is CC so is blinding and aoe.
DC works off intelligence modifier.
Damage scales off ranged power or if not (bug) then sonic spell power and sonic lore.

IMO should scale with sonic spell power even though its a thrown weapon.
effected by spell lore ( sonic) for damage
and add daze enhancement

targeting is more a sneak attack then movement

 

[Speed]

Rogue is not spellcaster, so it does not scale with spell power, just like it is with all pure melee/ranged class attacks.

Shot On The Run and Power Critical are questionable if you do not have enough feats.
Chance to hit can be easily and noticeably increased with accuracy augment if really needed, so you can run freely during shots and confirm your criticals.
Weapon focus requirement is wasting of valuable feat slot and critical damage can be increased with higher seeker item.

 

[Jodro]

did I miss something in options?

When it comes to that i'll search everywhere if there is something that can be done about it.

Grease sounds fun when playing ranged solo, otherwise party might be annoyed (especially melee).

Yep, i just hope it will get enough dc to trip em on high lvl. I see no info on wiki about grenades dc, what it says its about mines

Feats
Shot on the Run
Rapid Reload
Power Critical
Improved Critical

The feats I use are here

Spoiler: Broke Sniper feats

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Rogue(1)· · · · ·Standard: Rapid Reload
2 · · Rogue(2)· · · · ·
3 · · Rogue(3)· · · · ·Standard: Point Blank Shot
4 · · Rogue(4)· · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
5 · · Rogue(5)· · · · ·
6 · · Rogue(6)· · · · ·Standard: Precise Shot
7 · · Rogue(7)· · · · ·
8 · · Rogue(8)· · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
9 · · Rogue(9)· · · · ·Standard: Precision
10· · Rogue(10) · · · ·Rogue Special Ability: Defensive Roll
11· · Rogue(11) · · · ·
12· · Rogue(12) · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
13· · Rogue(13) · · · ·Rogue Special Ability: Slippery Mind
14· · Rogue(14) · · · ·
15· · Rogue(15) · · · ·Standard: Improved Precise Shot
16· · Rogue(16) · · · ·Rogue Special Ability: Skill Mastery
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
17· · Rogue(17) · · · ·
18· · Rogue(18) · · · ·Standard: Rapid Shot
19· · Rogue(19) · · · ·Rogue Special Ability: Improved Evasion
20· · Rogue(20) · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Combat Archery
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Holy Strike
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Improved Sneak Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Doubleshot
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Ethereal Plane
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: First Blood
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up

Feats are very tight on this build, not much wiggle room.