Is DDO Artificer closer to AD&D/2e artificer, 3.5e or 5e?

[ChaoticNecromancer]

Just curious because it seems to have offensive spells from AD&D( https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Artificer ), have 6th tier spells from 3.5e and 5e and higher hp points from this editions. In AD&D, it was a Mage kit. Which loses necromancy and enchantment.

 

[Bobbryan2]

If memory serves, they're based on the 3.5e Artificer that was in the Eberron campaign book as a core class. But obviously, they've had their own development for ten years in this game since then, so it's its own thing.

 

[ChaoticNecromancer]

Yes, but 3.5e Artificer kinda lacks ANY offensive spells. This is not the case with AD&D.

In fact, was ludicrous powerful in AD&D, mainly if the DM ignores "The DM should always consider the artificer's proposed item research and construction very carefully; any item that the DM feels is too powerful or out-of-character can be disallowed."

 

[Grimscore_Riffstorm]

If I remember correctly it was actually based on 5e from the book Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

 

[abaren]

It seems the class was released, give or take, around 2010-2011 on DDO (pending confirmation), before 5ed D&D existed. It certainly was more inspired by Eberron 3.5 artificer class. Probably a key distinction is that "infusions" are kind of retrofitted as spells probably due to technical debt. It was probably easier to recycle the spell system.

Edit:
Yeah, according to wiki I was kinda of right. It was released September 12th, 2011.
Source: https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_11_Release_Notes#New_Class:_Artificers

 

[ChaoticNecromancer]

5e

No way. Was launched much before 5e.

My guess. Was based on 3.5e but they included some AD&D stuff into it.

 

[Grimscore_Riffstorm]

No way. Was launched much before 5e.

My guess. Was based on 3.5e but they included some AD&D stuff into it.

At that time, DDO was utilizing the mechanics and concepts from 3.5, which included the Artificer class as it was originally designed in that edition. It was changed to mold more modern 5e as I understand thereafter. So I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Artificer now or Artificer 2010?

 

[abaren]

At that time, DDO was utilizing the mechanics and concepts from 3.5, which included the Artificer class as it was originally designed in that edition. It was changed to mold more modern 5e as I understand thereafter. So I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Artificer now or Artificer 2010?

What exactly is exclusive to 5e that you think was added later to DDO?

 

[Zvdegor]

@kmoustakas this topic is for you man Deep analysis pls!!!

 

[kmoustakas]

@kmoustakas this topic is for you man Deep analysis pls!!!

I'm looking at my "complete wizard's handbook, ad&d 2nd edition" and there is no artificer. I am pretty sure artificer first appeared in the eberron setting which was I think 3.5?

Also, don't forget they also made warlocks very weird. Warlocks didn't have spells in 3.5 - they first appeared in complete arcana I have that book too.

Which 2nd edition supplement is the OP seeing artificer?

 

[ChaoticNecromancer]

I am pretty sure artificer first appeared in the eberron setting which was I think 3.5?
(...)
Which 2nd edition supplement is the OP seeing artificer?

Check the book : TSR02163 :Player's Option Spells & Magic. At page 20

About magical items created by the artificer, the book has an warning

Eberron artificer is vastly different than AD&D one. DDO seems to be based on 3.5e, with a lot of homebrew stuff. A lot of AD&D stuff and a lot of 5e stuff.

Warlocks didn't have spells in 3.5 - they first appeared in complete arcana I have that book too.

They changed a lot from 2e, 3.5e, 4e and 5e. In 2e, they where a Mage "kit".

Page 103 of the Player Options : Spells & Magic sourcebook :

And had really nasty consequences for having such dark powers :

Spoiler

In 3.5e, it had SLA as form of invocations, divided in least, lesser, great and dark Invocations. In 4e, IDK, I hate 4e. In 5e, with every spell up to 5th tier being regain on short rest and Eldritch Blast is a cantrip modified by invocations, not an SLA.

 

[Grimscore_Riffstorm]

Pg. 22
In effect, the artificer is a wizard who creates temporary magical items for his own use.

I think Artificer as a standalone class is much different than being referenced as a Specialist for Wizards in Thaumaturgy. Wild Mage is a Thaumaturgical Wizard as well--but in DDO it's a Sorcerer.

 

[ShoeMaker]

If memory serves me well, it was based loosely on Pathfinder Artificer: https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/classes/artificer

 

[Grimscore_Riffstorm]

If memory serves me well, it was based loosely on Pathfinder Artificer: https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/classes/artificer

Yoooooo that makes me so happy you posted that. I was trying to find where it said "If the campaign allows for firearms" for the idea of a Gunslinger Iconic for the Artificer

 

[ChaoticNecromancer]

I think Artificer as a standalone class is much different than being referenced as a Specialist for Wizards in Thaumaturgy. Wild Mage is a Thaumaturgical Wizard as well--but in DDO it's a Sorcerer.

Many classes who are now classes in AD&D times where Mage Kits. Artificers, Sorcerers existed as Channelers, Warlocks too. Existed as mage kit. Alchemists too.

In AD&D, high level Artifice spells like create an Juggernaut(from Wizard's Spell Compendium), his stats : AC -2; MV 6; hp 99; #AT 2; THAC0 Caster +2; Dmg 8d8/8d8; SA Grab (6d8), constrict (5d8). Every magic effect targeting the caster goes to the construct. 8d8 in AD&D where mobs have very low hp can probably kill stuff faster than most high level spells in 5e.

Imagine if DDO Artifice had a similar "feat" for your pet. So your pet is hit instead of you.

Yoooooo that makes me so happy you posted that. I was trying to find where it said "If the campaign allows for firearms" for the idea of a Gunslinger Iconic for the Artificer

In DDO, you can literally drop a flame turret. But a arquebuss or a blunderbuss? No way!!!

 

[Terpilar]

In DDO, you can literally drop a flame turret. But a arquebuss or a blunderbuss? No way!!!

That would be a downgrade as in game we already have twin grenade launchers – Inquisitive's Shoot First.

 

[kmoustakas]

Check the book : TSR02163 :Player's Option Spells & Magic. At page 20

About magical items created by the artificer, the book has an warning

Eberron artificer is vastly different than AD&D one. DDO seems to be based on 3.5e, with a lot of homebrew stuff. A lot of AD&D stuff and a lot of 5e stuff.



They changed a lot from 2e, 3.5e, 4e and 5e. In 2e, they where a Mage "kit".

Page 103 of the Player Options : Spells & Magic sourcebook :

And had really nasty consequences for having such dark powers :

Spoiler

In 3.5e, it had SLA as form of invocations, divided in least, lesser, great and dark Invocations. In 4e, IDK, I hate 4e. In 5e, with every spell up to 5th tier being regain on short rest and Eldritch Blast is a cantrip modified by invocations, not an SLA.

Ah! Fair enough. I actually never got spells and powers or unearthed arcana in 2nd edition.

 

[ChaoticNecromancer]

Hot take.

DDO’s Artificer is arguably closer to the 2e Artificer Wizard kit than the 3.5e standalone Artificer class:

• Both can blast like wizards.
• Both are item specialists that can't use necromancy and many schools of magic
• Both emphasize invention and magitek flavor.
• Construct is a huge focus of both.
• Alchemist is also a variant of Wizard in AD&D and a standalone class in PF1e

In 3,5e, it is a support only class. In 2e is a specialist Wizard.

 

[Anurakh]

DDO Artificer is based on the 3.5 Artificer, but with a ton of homebrew additions since DDO doesn't have magic item crafting (which is the point of 3.5 artificer), and since devs only bothered to move a small portion of the infusion list (this also applies to the spell list for other classes).

It can't be based on the 5.0 Artificer because it predates 5 ed, and even predates 4ed.

Shoemaker, it's not based on the Pathfinder Artificer. The Artificer you posted is a homebrew (unofficial Paizo) conversion of the 3.5 Artificer. This Pathfinder conversion took a few liberties, to be honest.

DDO artificer is very different from 2.0, and at that time devs weren't copying 2.0, but rather adapting 3.0/3.5 material.

 

[azrael4h]

If I remember correctly it was actually based on 5e from the book Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

5e didn't exist when DDO added the Artificer class. It was introduced with Secrets of the Artificers, U11. Which was in 2011.

It was built on 3.5e Eberron Campaign Setting Artificers, with the usual DDO-isms and some 4E slop that makes AI look good. They're more ODD-specific than from any particular edition of the game.